Last of the affordable low bit samplers for drum sounds?

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dang_motu
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Last of the affordable low bit samplers for drum sounds?

Post by dang_motu » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:54 am

So I am trying to get a low-bit sampler on the cheap, but of course gear in this market has risen lately. My goal is to get one shot drum sample and then do very on-beat non complicated playback. The sound I am looking for is a bit like the first snare(?) sound in this video

[video][/video]

Most likely I'd sample at a higher pitch and then pitch down on the sampler to get close. Could the Ensoniq Mirage handle something like this? It seems to be like the cheapest option in this arena.

Thanks wigglers!

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Post by Hi5 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:26 am

Just got an Ensoniq EPS (non 16plus version) for $275 with the 2x memory expander at a Music-go-round. Even pricier ones on Reverb stay at or below $400. Depending where you are I see them on craigslist often as well

The early Ensoniqs are perfect for what you are asking for. EPS offers a ton of sample rates to record and playback at. 13bit as well. Also, the synthesize loop function turns anything you use into instant pads.
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Post by nuromantix » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:16 am

If you really only want to sample and play back one sound at a time, something like the Doepfer A112 is great and cheap, if you have a eurorack system......
You can still pick up a Yamaha SU700 for under £200, goes quite grungy.

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Post by dang_motu » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:18 am

I am liking that EPS suggestion.

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Post by leeski » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:30 am

some of those toy samplers might work, perhaps?
«:::A:::» «:::W:::» «:::E:::» «:::S:::» «:::O:::» «:::M:::» «:::E:::»

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Post by fac » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:34 am

The Zoom Sampletrak has a nice lo-fi sound, IMO. It samples at 16-bit but with relatively low sample rates (8 KHz, 16 KHz and 32 KHz). Plus it can resample its own output, so you can chop, add effects and mess the samples around as much as you like, degrading their quality in the process :)

One trick to emulate a lower bit rate is to sample at very low levels, and then amplify/normalize the sample.

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Post by CF3 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:04 pm

My vote would be the Mirage. With "lo-fi" samplers, go crunchy or go home. If money wasn't a factor I'd say EMU Emax (1) because of the variable sample rate (10kHz-48kHz :zombie: ). The keyboard variant can still be had for reasonable prices.

Some of the older Roland samplers might be interesting and can be had cheap. Like the s550 (s50) or s330. Both 12 bit.

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Post by bobbylandry » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Cool suggestions already. I'll add the Roland MU-1. It's cheap and you can monitor through it at different sample rates and use it like an effect.

Mostly though that track you posted is awesome.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:13 pm

Cheap options, In order if grittiness:
Mirage
Emax 1
Korg microsampler (can resample to really low rates)
EPS (not really so crunchy, but still lofi)
Akai s01/20–don’t have an anti-aliasing filter But you still have to pitch up the original material pretty high before sampling to yield any sort of significant crunch

Never used zoom but hear a lot about them being gritty.
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Post by nuromantix » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:33 pm

Akai s01/20–don’t have an anti-aliasing filter
Wow really? How did you find that out? I need to get them now!

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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:21 pm

nuromantix wrote:
Akai s01/20–don’t have an anti-aliasing filter
Wow really? How did you find that out? I need to get them now!
I came across this a while ago on another forum and have never seen anyone dispute it so it seems to be legit. There's LPF like on the S-2000, which probably also served as an anti-aliasing filter on that sampler, so it makes sense that the s20 doesn't have one at all.

But again, i found you still really have to push it to get into the crunchy/quantize noise zone (like pitching up at least an octave, if not more).
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Post by Hi5 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:45 pm

dang_motu wrote:I am liking that EPS suggestion.
Do it!!
If you're already into the idea of working with an older machine and limited RAM it is worth it. I'm not trying to make full tracks with it, just a sound or two at a time so the process isn't a hassle.

Check out the synthesized loop function
[video][/video]
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Post by gruebleengourd » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:24 pm

ensoniq eps classic is the best deal going.

SU700 is cool, but not for one shots, and if it hasn't been restored, you will likely need to do that yourself.

if you can find an akai s700 those are great as well. You can put a HxC in them now, so quickdisks are not an issue.

Also roland S50 and S550/S330

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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:28 pm

gruebleengourd wrote:ensoniq eps classic is the best deal going.

SU700 is cool, but not for one shots, and if it hasn't been restored, you will likely need to do that yourself.

if you can find an akai s700 those are great as well. You can put a HxC in them now, so quickdisks are not an issue.

Also roland S50 and S550/S330
yeah, I would mention the 612/700/7000, but prices for the 612 have gone up a fair amount and 700/7000s are too rare to be a really viable option. Also, while i LOVE the 612 and especially all the recent updates from hideaway studio, the stock sound is fairly warm/dark/murky, thanks to the fairly steep anti-aliasing filter. And it sounds like the OP wanted that brighter quantize-noise sound.

Roland S-series stuff are also going to have the same warm-but-not gritty vibe (I'm guessing they are even cleaner than the early Akais).
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Post by 3hands » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:33 pm

I have the s612, and an s700, a mirage, and an S330 (for grungy sampling), and I like the Roland the least. The Akais and the Ensoniq are in another level... The S700 can sample down to 6khz. It’s insanely crunchy. I may have the Roland S330 up for sale if you’re interested. Just let me know! I will give you a Muff wiggled bro deal!
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Post by Navs » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:37 am

Agree with the above suggestions and would add the Roland S-760, which has a range of sampling and re-sampling options, the A-112 and something like the first Yamaha/Casio samplers.

But as for the sound in your example, I'm hearing the effect of a phasing/flanging reverb on the snare, more than the fact that it might be bandwidth limited (which could be done with filtering) ... :hmm:

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Post by JimY » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:34 am

Old samplers are cool, but you might be able to get by with an SP303 or 404. The lo-fi sampling mode is 8bit and you can record or resample thru a few lo-fi FX. The sample "pads" are all mapped to midi notes.

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Post by seychmar » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:53 am

My two cents worth of advice. I have quite a few vintage samplers - S550, TX16W, e6400 ultra, k2500, asr-10, mv8000 and 3 Mirages. Only invest in old samplers if you are prepared to put up with their technical limitations and old, increasingly fragile, technology. I like these instruments for what they represent and because I have fond memories of them from ahem younger days. Sure they can still make great music, but in all honesty, if you just want that ‘vintage’ sound it’s better to just use a plugin like rx950, TAL-sampler or Decimort. If you decide to buy one, look into a good storage solution (scsi sd or floppy replacement), or at the very least make sure you have a spare floppy drive in case the original one fails, which it will. And find out the best strategy to transfer samples to a computer for storage and editing.

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Post by CosmicFlight » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:05 pm

+1 for Ensoniq EPS and ASR-10
Would go Akai S950 for drums
Sold my ASR-10 long time ago, and i'm still missing its own looping realtime crossfade :cry:

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Post by rew_ » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:32 pm

Bastl Microgranny is 8-bit and inexpensive

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Post by tito_tunes » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:51 pm

I use a couple Radio Music modules for this kinda stuff. They definitely have that low res thing. Everything sounds crunchier coming out of them I like it.
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Post by rjungemann » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:17 am

JimY wrote:Old samplers are cool, but you might be able to get by with an SP303 or 404. The lo-fi sampling mode is 8bit and you can record or resample thru a few lo-fi FX. The sample "pads" are all mapped to midi notes.
Was going to suggest the same thing! I got an SP-404SX recently and it's a ton of fun. Besides the lo-fi sample mode, there are some pretty grungy effects, such as the vinyl sim, filter, pitch shifters, and resampling. The sequencer on it is very basic, but it seems like most folks resample loops repeatedly, layer by layer.

When it comes to simulating old samplers in software, I've gotten good mileage with taking a pitched sample, (optionally) resampling it with a bitcrusher followed by a subtle low-pass filter. It's common to put a low-pass filter after a DAC (or before an ADC). It'll get rid of a lot of the harsh higher frequencies, but some of the aliasing will still get folded in. By resampling it, the bitcrushing becomes more melodic. This would simulate the quantization done by an ADC.

Also you might enjoy the Plogue Chipcrusher plugin, it uses convolution and other tricks to simulate old audio hardware circuits, speakers, etc. It sounds pretty goodd to me.
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Post by anselmi » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:16 am

korg microsampler is great too

you can monitor thru different sample rates before sampling, and the fx are really good and have a decent set of parameters. You can sample clean, thru the fx or even resample thru them, so there is a lot of stuff to mangle your sounds
memory is not volatile and it can handle both mono and stereo samples polyphonically

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Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:15 pm

Could not recommend the EPS classic more. I love my 16 plus, but if you want gritty, crunchy samples, the EPS is really unique. I got my rack version for 175, which was a steal. The 16 plus I got ~350 which was decent (especially when you can run other samples/synths through the effects section), but the EPS was definitely a good deal. I see Mirage's going for fairly cheap, if you can find one locally, I would jump on it if you can deal with the interface (the EPS has an infinitely better/easier to understand interface).

Anyway, to my mind, I don't see how you can get better than the EPS classic when factoring cost/interface/"mojo".
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Post by slumberjack » Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:11 am

Thx for this thread, got me now an eps and loving that thing instantly. Editing the samples is easy enough and it gives a softness to the sound I really like. I did drive 1100km in one day to get it home...
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