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Do I need dedicated output module for recording modular ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Do I need dedicated output module for recording modular ?
miqraw
I recorded my modular directly from VCF (no analog VCA, virtual VCA inside Reaktor) to Motu Ultralite mk1.
Do I need dedicated output module for recording modular ?
Will the sound be more transparent with analog VCA or dedicated output module (Circuit Abbey Gozinta) ?
For example, you can listen to my recordings made with only two filters (Jove is left channel, A 106-5 - right) directly to the 3rd and 4th linear inputs of Motu:
https://miqraw.bandcamp.com/album/raw
Trebbers
You don't need one if what you have sounds fine.
Arneb
miqraw wrote:
I recorded my modular directly from VCF (no analog VCA, virtual VCA inside Reaktor) to Motu Ultralite mk1.
Do I need dedicated output module for recording modular ?

Not unless you can't keep your interface from clipping (i.e. its level meter from going into the red) in the current VCF->Interface setup.

Quote:
Will the sound be more transparent with analog VCA

No, if anything it will be less transparent. The reason why people use things like tube amp VCAs is that they feel that those make the sound less transparent but in a good way.

Quote:
or dedicated output module (Circuit Abbey Gozinta) ?

Uh, the Gozinta is an input module. When you break out of your modular you want attenuation, not further gain.
sutekina bipu-on
Not necesairally, i had a situation where my interface could handle modular levels but the ext. in of my drum machine couldnt. One solution is to use an output module but i just hit a tube preamp with the modular signal and that takes care of things nicely.
EATyourGUITAR
All you need is attenuators and also to change the physical connector on one end of the cable. I have RYO air-tennuators that require 0HP and 0mA power. I also have guitar pedal boxes with volume knobs and jacks. This is the one part of your setup that is super simple and super cheap. All those other options are a luxury. Some touring musicians require metering, isolation, balanced output. You also give up HP and $ for that.
bkbirge
I run an output (panmix) module while I'm building a patch but usually when I go to record I just reroute all the direct sound outputs to my patchbay directly. Sometimes I need to attenuate before but not always. Depends on your workflow I guess but I don't think it's necessary, perhaps convenient though.
Foghorn
I like to have 2 or 3 Panmix modules (Ladik) going into a stereo mixer.
But stereo Eurorack mixers are so expensive that i found my little mixing board to be a cheaper alternative that works well.

Foghorn
johny_gtr
For live performance I use Intellijel stereo i/o for modular safety and easy connection.
For recording I put cables from audio interface direct to the last module in the chain. I also try to remove stereo mixer if its track-by-track recording.

Some FX units prefer lower signals (like OTO Bim/Bam) and after attenuation fx boxes provide better overall sound.

Vermona io its interesting because of transformers on the circuit but I think that they are pretty clean (= dont add any colors to sound)
Mark II
Running my modules straight into a focusrite octopre LE connected to a saffire pro 40 with no problems. Sometimes I have to attenuate some very hot outputs, but otherwise fine.
miqraw
Are there people who first record directly to the interface, but then bought "out module" and heard the difference in sound?
Shledge
In most cases, you don't need one. In fact, I would consider output modules to be completely pointless, unless you want one as a dedicated headphone out or something like that.
sutekina bipu-on
miqraw wrote:
Are there people who first record directly to the interface, but then bought "out module" and heard the difference in sound?


I had a pico out i bought to use as a hp amp. The only time the output jack helped me when recording was directly into my aforementioned drum machine input which was fairly sensitive. But the tube pre sounded better and i wanted a useful module in the pico out's space so i sold it and got a alm hpo foor when i want to use earbuds.

If your interface demands attenuation, you might as well spend $30 on a art tube mp or presonus tubepre and not use valuable rack space? because surely that interface could benefit from a dedicated preamp.
acidbob
miqraw wrote:
Are there people who first record directly to the interface, but then bought "out module" and heard the difference in sound?


Yes, but didnt notice any difference between that, my attenutors or souncraft mixer. Its not pointless if it can act as a booster, level meter, or both in and output module, the pittsburgh one even adds a nice overdrive. I like the output modules i have as it means i can patch anything into everything
BananaPlug
Shledge wrote:
unless you want one as a dedicated headphone out or something like that.


Yup. For small gigs (iffy PA?) with a small modular (no phones on dinky mixer?) it's a combination of convenience and insurance.

They provide balanced output which reduces noise induced from things like AC cables that may cross your cable on the way to its destination. On stage, that concern is usually addressed by running a fairly short cable to a direct box ("DI") which does the same balancing thing.
Alliex
I have an 8-channel DI from wayyyy back before I got into modular, and I can't even remember why I bought it. Bass maybe? Anyhow, it's been great to have for modular etc, esp with the +/- dB buttons and the ground lift.
DCDanno
I usually come straight out of whatever module is last in chain, sometimes a mixer, sometimes a filter, etc. and go into my Behringer UMC 404HD then into my DAW. If the level is too hot I go through a Mackie mixer, then into the Behringer. I'm sure there are more elegant solutions but this works for me.
nios
One can see so many apparent starters/planning racks in public on modulargrid, all taking the time to add a dedicated out of some kind even if it's going to be significant space in something like a HEK or 60hp pod. I don't know who or what "learn eurorack!" intro thing so many people seem to be watching, that has them convinced that they must account for dedicated outs, but it absolutely won't be needed for the vast majority of systems. A pair of 1/8" -> 1/4" cables (for left/right) from outs on your final stage into whatever external mixer/recorder you're using, will very likely straight-up work no problem for most people.

Anyway, using the VCF as a kind of VCA+final stage does work technically, but it really depends on the model of filter; some of them are pleasantly dead quiet closed all the way, while others have some noise/bleed, especially vintage clones/inspirations because those were always meant to be muted behind the VCA when the synth isn't playing. So while that's an odd way of doing it, if you meant to ask if you'd get any improvement by going filter -> external -> mixer, vs filter -> mixer, if you had no noise/headroom issues as-is then no, that external would be redundant. If you're hearing a bit of fuzz/system hum from that filter then run it through a VCA and use that as the final.

That's not to say, that dedicated outs are always redundant/useless, just for many systems they effectively are. It really depends on signal/noise and headroom between your final stage and mixing/recording setup. Basically, build up your plan first and see how it records, and only get externals if you have an issue and you're sure that's the fix. If you're going to bother and are sure they'll help then at least get something that would make a huge difference .. balanced cables, transformer isolation etc - XLR outs like the Vermona TAI-4/twinOut, Joranalogue Transmit 2 etc, as opposed to some 1/4" thing which is quite easily skipped with 1/8->1/4 cables.
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