Building on a LW Sing To Me panel; wondering how to proceed?

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Building on a LW Sing To Me panel; wondering how to proceed?

Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:07 pm

After doing a circular tour of the banana world I've come back to Serge, this time as a LW panel. My sound goals are interesting rhythmic patterns so I was planning on adding an R*S TKB and a Edelweiss II.

But I also wonder if that goes to heavy on the logic (the LW panel also includes AND/OR) to the detriment of basic but interesting sound generators like the Resonant EQ. If I skipped the Edelweiss II, I would probably do some combo of M-class AI panel and something else.

Guess I'm basically wondering a) if Edelweiss II + TKB is kind of overkill in the sequence/logic department (or the best thing ever) and b) if I am missing out in the plucky sound department by only have one filter (and no Resonant EQ)

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Post by southphillysynths » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:26 pm

If you have the BB-258 + Edelweiss II + TKB, that is a killer system.

IMO (with the little experience I have so far just having the BB-258 panel) I think starting with only Edelweiss II + TKB would be a bit too much sequencing and logic and little sound generation if that is what your asking.

What system are you thinking of starting out with?
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Post by ear ear » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:40 pm

eADSR also worth a look given your stated interests.
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Post by syncretism » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:21 pm

If I wanted to limit myself to just two panels, starting with a "Sing to Me," I'd consider the following:

Sing to Me
Sequencer-A, Obelisk, Audio Interface. Then I'd see if Low-Gain, Loudest Warning or someone could make me some cable extensions or adapters for power and swap out the Obelisk for a bespoke, 1-inch utility, like a CGS clock divider or ÷n com.

That would be terrifically flexible, with several oscillation, timing, CV and filtering sources, and would be suitable for both synthetic and electro-acoustic treatments.

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Post by syncretism » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:43 pm

Now, let's talk about another possibility:

Sing to Me
CGS/COA Vintage Voltron 6, which has come up for sale here in the past.

This gives you more flexiblity in timing and slews, possibly better oscillation and you get a really nice ResEQ with detented knobs (at least mine has them) and a 1/8" TS input. You lose the sequencer (obvs.) and the Audio Interface's VCA/comparator (both valuable) and excellent preamp module, which is another EG source and is hi-Z for contact mics, etc, but that may not be important. In their place, you get a 4x4 matrix mixer with banana and 1/8" TS i/o, and each row can be toggled between bipolar or unipolar attenuation, opening up pretty significant possibilities for drones and sound processing.

Your timing and sequencing possibilities open up when you combine the panels. Here's an example where three slope generators are ganged to trigger in succession; each slope generator is also filtering white noise. The "length" of each slope generator's stage is modulated in this case by a TKB, but you could easily do it with mixed EGs and the SSG. I also employed a logic panel to perform some ratcheting-type stuff when [and] was true. If you listen closely, the filtered noise in this patch is all over the place - slow sweeps, whooshes, clusters of rapid ticks, and so on. That's all coming from modulating the slopes on the ganged slope generators and just "playing" the pots on my sequencer. All the timing in this comes from that approach. I think it's pretty effective.

[video][/video]

(someone might rightly ask if one could do all of this with one DUSG and a lot of deliberate modulation instead of several in series, and... maybe? I'm fortunate to have more than two slope generators. I think the chain opens more rhythmic and timbral possibilties, especally at high rates, and you can effectively route each generator's output to a different destination, which would require a switch otherwise and may not sound quite as good).

Here are some feedback patches using the VV6. The upper and lower outputs on the ResEQ are a great way to tweak up a stereo image out of a mono source, by the way.

[video][/video]


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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:59 pm

Lots of great thoughts there Sync... Hadn't considered the Voltron board--assuming it was a well-built module that seems like a good (and likely more affordable option for the Rez EQ route. Mixer is interesting too.

the modded Obelisk is also a great idea--really does seem like a waste of space otherwise (had a couple M-class panels years ago).

I'm not trying to restrict myself to two panels tho (this is kind of an "all-in" thing at the mo) and I was planning on three panels total (in a bespoke case). Given I'm less of a "player", something about the TKB seems too much and a more compact straight/non-touch plate sequencer would probably do the job.

So the Seq-A + AI option definitely makes sense, though I wonder how much I'd use the pre-amp (I lack any external audio patching creativity for some reason). But maybe having it would get me to get more creative with my hardware samplers, for example.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:02 pm

southphillysynths wrote:If you have the BB-258 + Edelweiss II + TKB, that is a killer system.

IMO (with the little experience I have so far just having the BB-258 panel) I think starting with only Edelweiss II + TKB would be a bit too much sequencing and logic and little sound generation if that is what your asking.

What system are you thinking of starting out with?
I already have the LW panel (well by tomorrow anyway), so the Edelweiss and TKB would be on top of that.

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Post by fredguy » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:30 pm

I have a variation of the sing-to-me, no ring mod and a full dusg, and I'd suggest spending some time exploring the panel then adding a TKB. Play with these for a year, give or take, and you'll know what you're missing. There's no downside to expanding slowly.
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Post by tIB » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:53 pm

No one mentioned the swamp yet - that's a great panel and in some ways I prefer it to the tkb I now have. In my head TKB is the way to go for a 3 panel system, swamp for 2.

If you do settle on going for three panel keep an eye out for custom panels - there are some incredible panels out there that come up every now and again which have better configs than regular panels already out there. Also have you considered a row of LE modules to get exactly what you want?

If it were me I'd grab a swamp now, play with the two panel set up for a bit and then build a modular LW row based on what I found myself wanting... would also give you time to asses how good the swamp works for you. Think trying to get the right three panel system from the off in Serge is virtually impossible so just enjoy the ride...

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Post by muncky » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:17 am

I’ve just finished building Slopey to go with my earlier variant of the Sing To Me panel - final calibration to go, but initial playing suggests they may become best friends. I’ve also got a VV3+ in tow:

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Post by ear ear » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:19 am

Sir Ruff wrote:Given I'm less of a "player", something about the TKB seems too much and a more compact straight/non-touch plate sequencer would probably do the job.
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Post by syncretism » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:11 am

Oh, gimme!

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Post by phineas » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:26 pm

I'm taking a similar route, only doing it the other way round: I got a vintage voltron 6 and a swamp as my first two panels some months ago and am now waiting for a modified version of the LW sing to me panel.
Really excited about this. I'll post a pic when it's here.

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Post by syncretism » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:46 pm

Sir Ruff wrote: I already have the LW panel (well by tomorrow anyway), so the Edelweiss and TKB would be on top of that.
So... what's the verdict?

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Post by Sir Ruff » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:51 pm

syncretism wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote: I already have the LW panel (well by tomorrow anyway), so the Edelweiss and TKB would be on top of that.
So... what's the verdict?
LW panel is very rad. The extra waveshaper circuit IN the VCO sections is a cool surprise. Everything feels very cohesive and the precision is a really welcome difference from my other module--all MU.

Now I have an Edelweiss II panel on the way... Gonna give that a whirl to see what sort of rhythmic stuff I can get up to before committing to a TKB. I still like your idea of a Voltron--both based on cost and functionality.

But I am also feeling like I need a Res EQ somehow, so that may be a factor in whatever the next panel is (going back to your other suggestion of SeqA + AI half-panels)?

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Post by tIB » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:48 am

The Res eq is the one I could never squeeze in - I had vague plans to bananify the euro version and float two above the rig. The Serge panels approach always leads to compromise imo.

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Post by Prunesquallor » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:33 am

I'm looking to build on mine next year. I think that any Serge system worth it's salt includes a full DUSG and Res EQ, so they're going in. Also, looking back at old Serge threads, there are a lot of plugs for doubling up on some modules, especially the SSG and VCFQ, so they will also be going in. The rest of the space will be taken up by the R*S VCFS and new VCF2 that they're working on, plus utilities.

Maybe. :hihi:
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Post by Sir Ruff » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:30 pm

tIB wrote:The Res eq is the one I could never squeeze in - I had vague plans to bananify the euro version and float two above the rig. The Serge panels approach always leads to compromise imo.
yeah, this is the paradox of a "fixed" panel modular format that still has lots of variations within those panels. I personally want the "set and forget" approach of panels (and that's probably the reason I won't go the single module 4U route), but the trade-off is having to patiently sit and wait for the "ideal" panel, or M-class panels to show up.

I really don't understand why R*S don't have a Res EQ in one of their full panels :despair: Someone was selling a reasonably priced Oakland-era Serge panel on here with what was basically the AI and Gator functionality (perfect) but alas it's spoken for.

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Post by syncretism » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:42 pm

I know this isn’t where you want to be right now, but the R*S XL boat is marvelous, and while I don’t know if The Bad Producer/LW will consider making another, the custom “Reshape” panel he made for me in R*S format is awesome, and would round out your kit beautifully. Put that into an XL boat with your Edelweiss and, say, an NTO+crossfader (because you can never have too many of those, imho) or CLee Quantizer and you’ll have two and a half panels of crazy possibilities, as well what I’d consider to be the core Serge modules.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:46 pm

syncretism wrote:I know this isn’t where you want to be right now, but the R*S XL boat is marvelous, and while I don’t know if The Bad Producer/LW will consider making another, the custom “Reshape” panel he made for me in R*S format is awesome, and would round out your kit beautifully. Put that into an XL boat with your Edelweiss and, say, an NTO+crossfader (because you can never have too many of those, imho) or CLee Quantizer and you’ll have two and a half panels of crazy possibilities, as well what I’d consider to be the core Serge modules.
that looks sweet! I was only just reading the other day what the difference is between the Serge waveshaper and wave multiplier (LW panel has the latter--I was actually fiddling with the same CGS TWS in MU format but then I ended up replacing with a waveshaping oscillator from Noise Engineering).

But yeah, I'm pretty committed to the single panel (or at least half-panel) thing for now. It's been a ton of fun trying/swapping modules in MU, but at the same time, it's a timesink!

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Post by tIB » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:21 pm

Prunesquallor wrote: I think that any Serge system worth it's salt includes a full DUSG and Res EQ, so they're going in.
I prefer the DTG to DUSG - you can cram almost twice as many into the same size.

In an ideal world I'd have a wad, freq shifter and at least one res eq in my system - fortunately (financially!) panels approach means I can't do that and retain what I have already that I wouldn't want to lose.

The good news is there are plenty of incredible Serge systems out there regardless of whether they fit exactly with what their owner wanted. I've ended up with a really well balanced system that includes things I never would have incorporated had I not been buying pre configured panels.

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Post by Prunesquallor » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:33 am

tIB wrote:I prefer the DTG to DUSG - you can cram almost twice as many into the same size.
Well, if space is your overriding concern, I can understand that; however, you sacrifice some functionality and the DUSG is the signature Serge module, which, personally, I wouldn't want to miss out on.
tIB wrote:In an ideal world I'd have a wad, freq shifter and at least one res eq in my syste.
That would indeed be an ideal world as the WAD chips are unobtainium and no-one AFAIK is making the Freq Shift PCBs, unfortunately.
tIB wrote:The good news is there are plenty of incredible Serge systems out there regardless of whether they fit exactly with what their owner wanted. I've ended up with a really well balanced system that includes things I never would have incorporated had I not been buying pre configured panels.
Sounds great! Letting other people decide on your modules is one way of reducing options stress as well. Saying that, though, I feel that with my planned 2nd panel I'll have pretty much all of the Serge core modules I'll want, with doubles of the essentials. It'll be a neat and tidy system, with room to expand to Stroh, Fritz, Haible, and other stuff when I decide. Plus the price of a custom panel from LW is similar to that of a prebuilt R*S panel. I understand YMMV.

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Post by Prunesquallor » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:34 am

Ughh, unintended post.
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Post by tIB » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:20 am

Prunesquallor wrote:
tIB wrote:I prefer the DTG to DUSG - you can cram almost twice as many into the same size.
Well, if space is your overriding concern, I can understand that; however, you sacrifice some functionality and the DUSG is the signature Serge module, which, personally, I wouldn't want to miss out on.
Space saving isn't so much the point - it's that I can have eight slopes in the same footprint as four. It's also the same circuit, so any missing functionality can be brought out with mods. I use a lot of slopes in Serge so the more the merrier!

tIB wrote:In an ideal world I'd have a wad, freq shifter and at least one res eq in my syste.
That would indeed be an ideal world as the WAD chips are unobtainium and no-one AFAIK is making the Freq Shift PCBs, unfortunately. [/quote]

Serge/Rex is in mclass - klangzeit.
tIB wrote: Sounds great! Letting other people decide on your modules is one way of reducing options stress as well. Saying that, though, I feel that with my planned 2nd panel I'll have pretty much all of the Serge core modules I'll want, with doubles of the essentials. It'll be a neat and tidy system, with room to expand to Stroh, Fritz, Haible, and other stuff when I decide. Plus the price of a custom panel from LW is similar to that of a prebuilt R*S panel. I understand YMMV.

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If I was starting again I would be going LW without a doubt - good luck getting it all together.

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Post by Prunesquallor » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:13 am

tIB wrote:Good luck getting it all together.
Cheers, dude! All the best. :tu:
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