DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

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REcDeso12oi
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DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Post by REcDeso12oi » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:11 am

The "Serge power is a mess" chain got me thinking. I have a 208rV2 in an older Luther case.. no clue what the power supply is in that bad boy, but I do experience lots of bleed etc from the easel, hearing envelopes at faster rates, hearing the Mod oscillator when its gate/volume is down. I had Dave Brown check my build a while back and we had a back and forth about limiting the bleed but part of me thinks it is not only the nature of the older circuit, but also maybe the power supply.

Has anyone tried using a top notch power supply with their DIY Easel? Curious about these Hinton's.

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Graham Hinton
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Re: DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Post by Graham Hinton » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:35 pm

REcDeso12oi wrote:I have a 208rV2 in an older Luther case.. no clue what the power supply is in that bad boy, but I do experience lots of bleed etc from the easel, hearing envelopes at faster rates, hearing the Mod oscillator when its gate/volume is down. I had Dave Brown check my build a while back and we had a back and forth about limiting the bleed but part of me thinks it is not only the nature of the older circuit, but also maybe the power supply.
It is not so much the PSU as the power distribution that causes bleed, by a process called common impedance coupling. (Look it up.)

Basically the resistance of the power wiring is too high. There are two places to consider: between the PSU terminals and the distribution and the 0Vs between all modules. External PSUs and long cables are bad news.
Has anyone tried using a top notch power supply with their DIY Easel? Curious about these Hinton's.
Nobody has bought one for a Buchla. Yet. Plenty of Serge systems out there.

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papz
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Post by papz » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:00 pm

This is a known problem with Roman's poorly designed 211 PSU board that Luther used.
It is discussed ao in the 208p build thread : viewtopic.php?p=2858650&highlight=#2858650
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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REcDeso12oi
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Post by REcDeso12oi » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:12 pm

oh wow, all this is very interesting. Thanks guys!

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Post by captnapalm » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:46 pm

Yes I used those on one batch of cases. I always recommended people go with the full, larger Cincon supply but many did not want to pay for it. I had enough people with strange issues that I stopped using them after that batch.

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lumin
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Re: DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Post by lumin » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:53 pm

Graham Hinton wrote:
Has anyone tried using a top notch power supply with their DIY Easel? Curious about these Hinton's.
Nobody has bought one for a Buchla. Yet. Plenty of Serge systems out there.
Graham, just curious. Do you offer a power supply that fits inside a music easel?
Also, thank you for all the info you provide to us folks that dont always understand this stuff completely

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Peake
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Post by Peake » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:17 pm

Does the 211 V2 have the same issues?
This is not the place I'd imagined it to be.

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Post by christie » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:26 am

Yes, I'm interested to know this as well. I have 2-3 of those 211s floating around, including in my 208r.

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Re: DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Post by Graham Hinton » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:14 am

lumin wrote:Graham, just curious. Do you offer a power supply that fits inside a music easel?
No. I can't make a PSU to retrofit in anything that doesn't have enough room or go through all the certification processes for a very limited market.

Also I don't recommend external PSUs because of the requirements that imposes on the size of the connecting cables. My PSUs are 4U or 6U 19" panels intended to be mounted on the rear of a case with 19" racking with a short distance to the power distribution. That enables simplified metalwork (which is the major part of the cost an industrial PSU) and adequate cooling.

The folding type cases with separate boats conflicts with getting a good 0V between all modules so I'm not surprised I don't get any enquiries for Buchlas. I canna change the laws of physics. If you want a good electrical system you have to design the case around that and add style, not style a case without considering the electrical requirements. You can see some of the large cases that I have provided power for on my Gallery.

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lumin
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Re: DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Post by lumin » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:23 am

Yessir, understood.
I had been reading the info and did view your gallery prior to my question. I had to ask since you said noone had ordered for Buchla system yet. Wanted to know if that was something in the works or a special order of some type.
I'm now understanding what is required to do it properly.
Thank you again.
Graham Hinton wrote:
lumin wrote:Graham, just curious. Do you offer a power supply that fits inside a music easel?
No. I can't make a PSU to retrofit in anything that doesn't have enough room or go through all the certification processes for a very limited market.

Also I don't recommend external PSUs because of the requirements that imposes on the size of the connecting cables. My PSUs are 4U or 6U 19" panels intended to be mounted on the rear of a case with 19" racking with a short distance to the power distribution. That enables simplified metalwork (which is the major part of the cost an industrial PSU) and adequate cooling.

The folding type cases with separate boats conflicts with getting a good 0V between all modules so I'm not surprised I don't get any enquiries for Buchlas. I canna change the laws of physics. If you want a good electrical system you have to design the case around that and add style, not style a case without considering the electrical requirements. You can see some of the large cases that I have provided power for on my Gallery.

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lumin
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Post by lumin » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:18 am

Peake wrote:Does the 211 V2 have the same issues?
Just bumping this because I'm curious if anyone has an answer.
Looking to add a powered 211 or similar to my easel due to the underpowered nature of the easel psu.
Thanks

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ArguZ
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Post by ArguZ » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:05 am

The 500mAh are used up by the 350 the 208 uses and the 80 the 218 would use, leaving like 100 for a cardOC...but that's it.

For our demo system i did this.
I put in a 211 and wired it in parallel to the ground and switch out.
I also added another 1to3 power distro board to get up to 8 power plugs.
That gives another 1A to the 500mAh the basic one provides.

Image

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lumin
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Post by lumin » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:24 am

Thanks Sascha. I appreciate the pic to help me see what you mentioned via PM. Going to head in this direction.
I asked Steffen the difference in V1 & V2 of the 211 since he installs them in his cases, and he said he uses V1 due to the 1.5A capability as opposed to V2's 1A. If you have any thoughts on why to use V2 instead of V1, I am all ears. Just wanting something stable.

I appreciate the info!

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ArguZ
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Post by ArguZ » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:21 am

Yeah, i am in constant discussion with him about V1 vs V2 ;)
First the power of both is the same on paper.
The datasheet of the 108-S24DE15001PDFA clearly indicates 1A , so why EMS lists it as 1,5A is unknown.
Maybe someone added the 1A or the +-15 and the 5+ ;)
Second, i prefer the ease of building a V2 over the mixed through hole and micor pitch SMD V1 has.
But V2 comes with a hefty price tag for the Delta and it is almost never in stock at Mouser.
Personally , i think we should design a totally new one, all SMD and use standard well known power bricks from Traco.
If you buy either V1 or V2 built there is probably no difference..

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lumin
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Post by lumin » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:20 pm

Ah, that's interesting to know. Maybe a new supply is in order.
I know I have a headache from all the recent reading, comparing, etc.
May leave my easel as is, just buy another case, and keep things separate and easy.

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lumin
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Re: DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Post by lumin » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:09 pm

Hello all. I ended up buying and building a couple 211 Rev 2 boards (which were fairly easy to assemble btw) but notice a difference in the number of ground connections on the card between Rev 1 & Rev 2.
Was looking to connect 211 in parallel as Sascha has done. Seems the easiest way to utilize additional power when needed to power hungry modules.
Have a couple very basic questions for anyone who can answer.
In the parallel configuration, which ground is connected to the power plug now that there is a Noisy & Quiet Ground on the 211?
Edit *Figured out the output leg question*
As usual, any help is appreciated dearly.
Thank you!

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lumin
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Re: DIY Music Easel Power Supply

Post by lumin » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:17 am

Figured it all out. Now to get the bottom section of my easel filled up.

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