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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Snare body
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author Snare body
raccoonboy
Hi all. I can make a pretty decent hard hitting snare with my modular but it sometimes lacks the body of a natural snare. I know it will never match the real thing and I'll mostly mix with a real one (or sometimes a physically modelled one) but what do you guys do to get a good snare body, to me there is a lot more depth and shit going on than a kick so it reuires more work. Again. No problem with the noise and snap, interested in the body.

Something like this would be ace (i know verb helps).. starts at 38 seconds

[video]https://youtu.be/P9BfvPjsXXw[/video]

Thoughts?

Thanks

Edit: no module suggestions please. Techniques only my setup is all analogue. Including filters plenty of crunchy vcas and metallic noise sources, everything u cud need.
commodorejohn
Tragically, I lost the patch book I had the notes in, but when I was putting together an all-MS-20 track some years ago, I got surprisingly good results just using ring-modulated pulse waves for the "body" of the snare. Couple that with noise and moderately resonant LPF and HPF with fixed cutoffs to limit the noise spectrum and emphasize the "hollow" range more, and it worked beautifully; most of the fiddling was in finding the best tuning ratio for the two oscillators.

Later, on another track, I got a fantastic '80s gated snare sound using the same tactic - lost that patch, too confused
raccoonboy
commodorejohn wrote:
Tragically, I lost the patch book I had the notes in, but when I was putting together an all-MS-20 track some years ago, I got surprisingly good results just using ring-modulated pulse waves for the "body" of the snare. Couple that with noise and moderately resonant LPF and HPF with fixed cutoffs to limit the noise spectrum and emphasize the "hollow" range more, and it worked fantastically; most of the fiddling was in finding the best tuning ratio for the two oscillators.


That is a tragedy :(

I'll have a try on my ms20 tho. Thanks for the tip
mother misty
Maybe this can help, Sound On Sound Synth Secrets
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synthesizing-drums-snare-drum
raccoonboy
mother misty wrote:
Maybe this can help, Sound On Sound Synth Secrets
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synthesizing-drums-snare-drum


I have read this and while it is fascinating in conclusion it basically says it takes so much gear and frequency shifters to make a realistic snare you should just use white noise and make an analogue synth style snare.

Still good nuggets in there.


But I will refer to it again for the frequency analysis of the skin and use my liquid hihat to dial in these frequencies instead of a freq shifter

Thanks
mojopin
Yeah, I've always used a ring mod of two sine waves..maybe some envelope added to the pitch of one of them. The 'snares' are a parallel process.

So I listened to that track and the drum really rings out. I don't personally like it but that is why you need some cross modulation to get that ringing. A freq shifter would sure help with deharmonizing but not so crucial here I think. I would put that on your x-mas list though nanners
raccoonboy
mojopin wrote:
Yeah, I've always used a ring mod of two sine waves..maybe some envelope added to the pitch of one of them. The 'snares' are a parallel process.

So I listened to that track and the drum really rings out. I don't personally like it but that is why you need some cross modulation to get that ringing. A freq shifter would sure help with deharmonizing but not so crucial here I think. I would put that on your x-mas list though nanners


getting decent results with ring moding two sines, thanks.

if anyone has any other advice for snare body (doesn't have to be ringy types like above) then much appreciated grin
mojopin
Oh I should also say that I like to run the ring mod into an LPG to give it a more acoustic sound. If you don't want it to ring out then just shorten the LPG. I've also done kicks this way..just drop the oscillators down.
spilthyfred
Down at my local synth shop a guy was telling me that he gets incredible snares using wavetable synthesis and an LPG. He was using the new Piston Honda mk3. I haven't yet tried it myself, but it is food for thought..
MindMachine
Not much help but Larry Fast/Synergy did some great drum sounds with primarily a Moog 15 and Oberheim SEM. HIs first three or four albums and then Jupiter Menace soundtrack have amazing synthetic drums and percussion.

Maybe he would return an e-mail.

ps - I am lazy and use an EMW Snare Lab.
lionel
You can have a look at this :
https://www.noiseengineering.us/blog/2019/5/28/ba-dum-kshhhhh-synthesi zing-funny-jokes
fac
Some kind of resonator could help. This can be a resonant bandpass fiter (or a bank of 2 or 3 of them), or a delay line with short delay time and enough feedback (sort of physical modeling).

I would try: two VCOs with simple shapes (sin/tri) mixed with their ring-modulated output, the mix going through a enveloped amp, then through a short delay with feedback tuned to taste; this will be the "main body" of the snare. In parallel, send white noise through another enveloped amplifier and mix the output with the main body, and send the mix through an LPF for tone control.
commodorejohn
Yeah, the use of a short, ringing delay to emphasize the snare "body" served me pretty well when I did a track with the Kilpatrick Phenol before sending it on to a good home. Definitely recommend that trick if you're not trying for any kind of "pure" dry-single-instrument-demo track or anything.
bjarneroe
This gets you somewhere in the neighbourhood of snares
https://www.instagram.com/p/B24qsvqF08L
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