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Planning my first modular (Moon)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Planning my first modular (Moon)
robinkle
Intro:
I've been on the forum for a while now, but I don't have any Modular synth yet, not even a semi-modular, not even any analog synth at all in fact. So it's about time I get one. I'm pretty sure you guys agree. smile

Why Moon Modular:
A local dealer of mine imports Moon Modular, and I got a nice feel of the modules, this is quality man! Rock solid stuff! I want to support local stores as well, and they are indeed endangered. And it feels safe to have a store to handle things if I have issues. I don't feel ready to frankenstein a mix of manufacturers yet, and Moon seems to have high feature density as well as being very intuitive and has enough modules to choose from to make a full system. Later on I have Synth-Werk and Cotk in mind.

The idea of the initial modular system:
I like 80's electro-funk, pop, fusion, synthwave and electronica in general. So I'm looking for Sync-leads, FM-bass, resonant bass, detuned saw leads, drones, spooky sounds. The basics you know. And these modulars sounds freaking good!

The current Moon Modular composition (attachment):
Planning, mixing and matching is a ton of fun, I can do this for weeks!
The key features are: Two Oscillators, Linear-FM, two filters Ladder/VCA and SVF, 4 LFO's with sync/reset, 2-voice Midi module, two envelopes, another two VCA's and stereo mixer with panning/vca's.

Other stuff I need:
A good keyboard Controller, Nice keys, with Wheels, Velocity and aftertouch.
Please share recommendations.

What do you guys think?
I'm sure you guys have opinions about my build, and some stories about how you would do things differently from the start when you got your first modular. I'd like to hear it!
josaka
if you want electro sounds(+ all those others you mention) get some digital osc modules.. (the noise engineering sound great..).. korg type filters are v good as are the roland cascaded filters..
ba1
If sticking with all moon, maybe hold off on the expanders until you expand... Instead add the reversible attenuators and maybe the Sample & Hold. In a system this size, you might be better off with another dual VCO over the quad LFO. Also, I always recommend parking a Moog CP251 in front of a small system! The Koma RH301 is great too! I have both in front of my Hordijk case.

Speaking of, if you don't already know, Rob Hordijk's System. It's Roughly the same size and cost as the Moon system that you are considering, but it offers quite a bit more functionally. There are two different VCOs, 2 Dual VC EGs, 6-8 VCAs (depending on config) 3 LFOs, an extensive random/clocking/noise Osc, 2 different ring modulators, phaser, freq shifter, wave shaper, panner, quantizer, 2 different filters, envelope follower and a matrix mixer that handles all mixing, attenuation and multiplying. Beyond top notch build/sound quality. The waiting list is over a year long though,

You'd be happy with the moon stuff though! I had a problem with a used moon mixer that i bought a while back and Gert was excellent to deal with!
robinkle
ba1 wrote:
If sticking with all moon, maybe hold off on the expanders until you expand... Instead add the reversible attenuators and maybe the Sample & Hold. In a system this size, you might be better off with another dual VCO over the quad LFO. Also, I always recommend parking a Moog CP251 in front of a small system! The Koma RH301 is great too! I have both in front of my Hordijk case.


The expanding might take a while though. I had the rev.Attenuator instead of the LFO expander at first, but I realized that most modules have reversed outputs and/or attenuators on them. I find the LFO sync very usefull. Not sure I need 4 oscillators, it would be great to have for huge sounds though... About the midi module. I couldn’t find any other module that made sense for this system than the midi module, which has everything I need in terms of midi.

Quote:

Speaking of, if you don't already know, Rob Hordijk's System. It's Roughly the same size and cost as the Moon system that you are considering, but it offers quite a bit more functionally. There are two different VCOs, 2 Dual VC EGs, 6-8 VCAs (depending on config) 3 LFOs, an extensive random/clocking/noise Osc, 2 different ring modulators, phaser, freq shifter, wave shaper, panner, quantizer, 2 different filters, envelope follower and a matrix mixer that handles all mixing, attenuation and multiplying. Beyond top notch build/sound quality. The waiting list is over a year long though,

You'd be hay with the moon stuff though! I had a problem with a used moon mixer that i bought a while back and Gert was excellent to deal with!


I’ll give the Hordijk system some thought, even though it seems to be a less convenient option atm. I have great impression of Gert as well.
robinkle
ba1 wrote:
and maybe the Sample & Hold.

I've been back and forth about this one. And it is usefull. I can make room for it by replacing the 506 filter with a 504 which is an improved version of the 506, but lacks the VCA. I think I'm covered when it comes to VCA's though. Will make revised design when I get home.
josaka
I have had moon stuff and have 3 hordyk osc at the moment..
I would say the synthwerk stuff has the edge soundwise.. the 921 and 901 are excellent.. I havent had the Moon oscillators.. but have lost faith in them a while ago.. shame ..as gerd is a lovely guy.. the hordyk Sync osc is a very unique thing.. capable of all sorts(S & H+) ..it can do stuff no other osc does.. the HRMs ar pretty standard sounding.. limited even.. its buchla type trick(scanning between two waves) is quite tame sounding.. the Kobol does a similar thing but better.. you might also want to check the electrosmith and STG new osc as well..

I am selling 2 moon 517s as well smile sold my 506 too.. not sure the 504 is much different sonically..
robinkle
josaka wrote:
I have had moon stuff and have 3 hordyk osc at the moment..
I would say the synthwerk stuff has the edge soundwise.. the 921 and 901 are excellent.. I havent had the Moon oscillators.. but have lost faith in them a while ago.. shame ..as gerd is a lovely guy.. the hordyk Sync osc is a very unique thing.. capable of all sorts(S & H+) ..it can do stuff no other osc does.. the HRMs ar pretty standard sounding.. limited even.. its buchla type trick(scanning between two waves) is quite tame sounding.. the Kobol does a similar thing but better.. you might also want to check the electrosmith and STG new osc as well..

I am selling 2 moon 517s as well smile sold my 506 too.. not sure the 504 is much different sonically..


Why did you loose faith in the Moon oscillators? I could replace the Moon oscillator and expander with a Synthwerk 921 Oscillator driver and two oscillators. Should get about the same feature set. I had a talk with JLR on youtube, and he mentioned about what Gerd said, that the 504 was an improved version of the 506 filter section. My idea is about it being a ladder filter, being able to reproduce some moog flavor. But I could replace it with a synthwerk filter. I'm not into frankestein setup, but I could do synth-werk, they seem to have a connection with Moon as they offer moon modules to complement with their own.

I'm in a phase sort of where I want a super clean setup. I've had COTK Model 15 and Synth-werk Model 15 in mind. COTK seems to have a much better price, and they offer a decent keyboard as well.
josaka
as I said I never had the moon osc I was referring to Moon modules as a whole.. I lost faith after buying several dissapointing filter modules(506) also the build quality (has been discussed on here at length.. )
the SW 921 ABB are very good ( got 5 Bs!) but I would say for the moog 'magic' the 901s (have 4) edge it..
re your 'aims' the Moog sound is not really 'electro' smile that was more korg/roland/sequential/obi polysynths..
but.. you wont go wrong with SW.. gerhard is great.. very on point.

re COTK I had a bad time with them and ordering.. as many on here have .. but some are fine.. between SW/COTK night and day service.. gerhard is very responsive.. same day replies etc COTK once a month if that.. (in my experience..) Mos Lab is a bit lax sometimes too.. but hes on facebook as is SW and not COTK unsurprisingly.

for me.. I dont care about the looks really I need end results.. so the best sounding modules stay.. the SSL DDVCO great for electro. I use the moog clones more for P-funk or Berlin and general use.. yes you can do all music on all oscillators.. but some lean to certain sounds more..
Ricochet
Great decision you made, Robin (?) applause

I was exactly where you are now 2 years ago and have bought over 30 MOON modules so far hmmm.....

The MOON philosophy is perfect, they are great in sound and design thumbs up

The service of Gert (Jalass) is excellent and the innoative power of him even more we're not worthy

2 weeks ago I was fortunate enough to be able to talk to him in person for hours and my requests were without exception
clarified very comprehensively. Guinness ftw!


I would like to emphasize that it is easily possible to make an internal audio connection without losing the modular character.
The main modules (VCO, VCF, VCA) can be wired internally to be able to split them immediately through patch cables in the
appropriate places.

For those who need it: There is also the bus system M590!
Ideal for larger systems. You can find it (not directly) on the website, but in the download catalog on page 20.

Already with an input module (590 TL) many control voltages and / or gate signals can be distributed to the corresponding
modules without patching them.

For this purpose, however, each module to be supplied (VCO, VCF, VCA, Envelope, etc.) needs its own distributors (590V for cv)
and (590G for gate)

The matrix modules 591 and 592 are also exciting!

The ingenious thing is: the price is unbeatable for us here in Europe!
You get the best service (through the dealers), a thoughtful philosophy, a top design and most innovative sequencer solutions!

It's no coincidence that you can find MOON in the big systems of Hans Zimmer, Ed Buller, JunkieXL and many other of the
muffwigglers here.

Therefore that thumbs up

let's go !! nanners

Gerd


robinkle wrote:


Why Moon Modular:
A local dealer of mine imports Moon Modular, and I got a nice feel of the modules, this is quality man! Rock solid stuff! I want to support local stores as well, and they are indeed endangered. And it feels safe to have a store to handle things if I have issues. I don't feel ready to frankenstein a mix of manufacturers yet, and Moon seems to have high feature density as well as being very intuitive and has enough modules to choose from to make a full system. Later on I have Synth-Werk and Cotk in mind.

The idea of the initial modular system:
I like 80's electro-funk, pop, fusion, synthwave and electronica in general. So I'm looking for Sync-leads, FM-bass, resonant bass, detuned saw leads, drones, spooky sounds. The basics you know. And these modulars sounds freaking good!

The current Moon Modular composition (attachment):
Planning, mixing and matching is a ton of fun, I can do this for weeks!
The key features are: Two Oscillators, Linear-FM, two filters Ladder/VCA and SVF, 4 LFO's with sync/reset, 2-voice Midi module, two envelopes, another two VCA's and stereo mixer with panning/vca's.

robinkle
Ricochet wrote:
Great decision you made, Robin (?) applause

I was exactly where you are now 2 years ago and have bought over 30 MOON modules so far hmmm.....

The MOON philosophy is perfect, they are great in sound and design thumbs up

The service of Gert (Jalass) is excellent and the innoative power of him even more we're not worthy

2 weeks ago I was fortunate enough to be able to talk to him in person for hours and my requests were without exception
clarified very comprehensively. Guinness ftw!


I would like to emphasize that it is easily possible to make an internal audio connection without losing the modular character.
The main modules (VCO, VCF, VCA) can be wired internally to be able to split them immediately through patch cables in the
appropriate places.

For those who need it: There is also the bus system M590!
Ideal for larger systems. You can find it (not directly) on the website, but in the download catalog on page 20.

Already with an input module (590 TL) many control voltages and / or gate signals can be distributed to the corresponding
modules without patching them.

For this purpose, however, each module to be supplied (VCO, VCF, VCA, Envelope, etc.) needs its own distributors (590V for cv)
and (590G for gate)

The matrix modules 591 and 592 are also exciting!

The ingenious thing is: the price is unbeatable for us here in Europe!
You get the best service (through the dealers), a thoughtful philosophy, a top design and most innovative sequencer solutions!

It's no coincidence that you can find MOON in the big systems of Hans Zimmer, Ed Buller, JunkieXL and many other of the
muffwigglers here.

Therefore that thumbs up

let's go !! nanners

Gerd


robinkle wrote:


Why Moon Modular:
A local dealer of mine imports Moon Modular, and I got a nice feel of the modules, this is quality man! Rock solid stuff! I want to support local stores as well, and they are indeed endangered. And it feels safe to have a store to handle things if I have issues. I don't feel ready to frankenstein a mix of manufacturers yet, and Moon seems to have high feature density as well as being very intuitive and has enough modules to choose from to make a full system. Later on I have Synth-Werk and Cotk in mind.

The idea of the initial modular system:
I like 80's electro-funk, pop, fusion, synthwave and electronica in general. So I'm looking for Sync-leads, FM-bass, resonant bass, detuned saw leads, drones, spooky sounds. The basics you know. And these modulars sounds freaking good!

The current Moon Modular composition (attachment):
Planning, mixing and matching is a ton of fun, I can do this for weeks!
The key features are: Two Oscillators, Linear-FM, two filters Ladder/VCA and SVF, 4 LFO's with sync/reset, 2-voice Midi module, two envelopes, another two VCA's and stereo mixer with panning/vca's.



It's Robin, yes. smile

My dealer told me that Gert comes over once a year, and he told me I should keep an eye on their facebook page so I won't miss it. Would love to have a chat with him! I would ask about a keyboard controller (Moon Controller, eh?) and a drum module inspired by Simmons SDS-V.smile

I have to start with a small system, I have mortgages up to my neck, so one step at a time. Not sure what to choose between tolex cabinet or rack though, maybe you can share your opinion on that. Either way, a Model 15 sized synth is a great starting point I think, and as I expand further into the future, I can implement those extra modules to make things easier.
robinkle
robinkle wrote:
josaka wrote:
I have had moon stuff and have 3 hordyk osc at the moment..
I would say the synthwerk stuff has the edge soundwise.. the 921 and 901 are excellent.. I havent had the Moon oscillators.. but have lost faith in them a while ago.. shame ..as gerd is a lovely guy.. the hordyk Sync osc is a very unique thing.. capable of all sorts(S & H+) ..it can do stuff no other osc does.. the HRMs ar pretty standard sounding.. limited even.. its buchla type trick(scanning between two waves) is quite tame sounding.. the Kobol does a similar thing but better.. you might also want to check the electrosmith and STG new osc as well..

I am selling 2 moon 517s as well smile sold my 506 too.. not sure the 504 is much different sonically..


Why did you loose faith in the Moon oscillators? I could replace the Moon oscillator and expander with a Synthwerk 921 Oscillator driver and two oscillators. Should get about the same feature set. I had a talk with JLR on youtube, and he mentioned about what Gerd said, that the 504 was an improved version of the 506 filter section. My idea is about it being a ladder filter, being able to reproduce some moog flavor. But I could replace it with a synthwerk filter. I'm not into frankestein setup, but I could do synth-werk, they seem to have a connection with Moon as they offer moon modules to complement with their own.

I'm in a phase sort of where I want a super clean setup. I've had COTK Model 15 and Synth-werk Model 15 in mind. COTK seems to have a much better price, and they offer a decent keyboard as well.


I've had some questions back and forth with Kazike, and it's a bit hit and miss. Sometimes he forget to respond, sometimes he responds within a day. And sometimes language can be tricky. His moog clone systems really got me interested in 5U though, I have to give him that. smile. I read an article who was reviewing his Model 15 where there was a problem, and he came personally. Now that's something though. So he seems willing to provide good service, he just doesn't show it constantly. Then just ask again. That's my experience.
robinkle
Replaced 506 filter, with 504 filter. Added 528 sample & hold.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/download.php?id=33829
cornutt
For '80s stuff, you'll want some delay-based effects that you can control... the SSL 1350 F/X Capacitor might be a good addition.
robinkle
cornutt wrote:
For '80s stuff, you'll want some delay-based effects that you can control... the SSL 1350 F/X Capacitor might be a good addition.


Looks like a good option for an additional case. smile
Thorsday
robinkle wrote:
...4 LFO's with sync/reset...


524A is incapable of resetting in LFO range mode. It will not sync.
robinkle
Thorsday wrote:
robinkle wrote:
...4 LFO's with sync/reset...


524A is incapable of resetting in LFO range mode. It will not sync.


Have you tested it?

Quote from the spec sheet: "The four reset input jacks allow syncing of the LFO
frequency to external sources as clock pulses, gates
outputs etc. In gate mode each LFO can be gated by
external signals."

Can you elaborate? smile
Thalassa
There was a full thread about it a while ago

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175425&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=0
ranix
robinkle wrote:

Have you tested it?


Extensively, with verification of behavior from multiple users with scopes & probes. Many Moon modules exhibit similar unexpected behavior. Gert was contacted about this problem and declined to offer any meaningful comments.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175425

in audio range the LFO does operate at a rather low frequency (~1hz+?) so sometimes you can use the gate/sync if you don't want to drive the LFO too slow. Overall I am dissatisfied with the module but don't plan to get rid of it
hsosdrum
Yep. Mine doesn't sync either. I must admit to being disappointed in Moon modules overall. Here in the USA they're pretty expensive compared with most other manufacturers and to me they just don't deliver performance that justifies their extra cost.

Since you're in Norway I understand that your situation regarding the availability and price of modules from various manufacturers is different from mine, but for me the 524/524A combo and the 517S filter that I currently own are the only Moon modules I plan on ever buying.
robinkle
That thread settles it about the LFO expander, what a shame really. I'm not going anti Moon though, and I don't question the quality it self, just the result of human errors, that isn't being fixed.
hsosdrum
The expander is still useful in that it provides sine, saw and ramp outputs (the quad LFO itself only provides triangle and pulse/square outputs), but no reset.
Thorsday
I own 524+524A and it is a great module set. Its Sync/Reset or lack thereof is a character flaw.

When I require Sync/Reset, however, the Corsynth C102 is what the recipe calls for.
josaka
hsosdrum wrote:
to me they just don't deliver performance that justifies their extra cost.

Since you're in Norway I understand that your situation regarding the availability and price of modules from various manufacturers is different from mine, but for me the 524/524A combo and the 517S filter that I currently own are the only Moon modules I plan on ever buying.


in europe we have a 20% VAT add on.. so.. thats there.
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