2164 problems, yet again

From circuitbending to homebrew stompboxes & synths, keep the DIY spirit alive!

Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

Post Reply
PDLDLNT
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:33 am

2164 problems, yet again

Post by PDLDLNT » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:16 pm

sorry to be harping on this stuff again, i seem to be hitting my head against a wall. :bang:


i am now following the Mike Irwin circuit exactly - and still having trouble with my build.

one thing i've noticed that i haven't seen other people commenting on is that the datasheets for the SSI2164 datasheet and the Cool Audio V2164 do not have corresponding pinouts.

http://www.soundsemiconductor.com/downl ... asheet.pdf
http://coolaudio.com/docs/COOLAUDIO_V21 ... ASHEET.pdf

compared to the original:
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technic ... SM2164.pdf

the SSI seems to be accurate.
the CoolAudio chip seems to have a mismarked block diagram.

is this possible? is it possible that i'm the only person to fuck this up?
am i hallucinating?

User avatar
NV
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2565
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:40 pm

Re: 2164 problems, yet again

Post by NV » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:04 pm

The V2164's 2.1 block diagram erroneously swaps pins 10 and 11. The 2.2 pin descriptions however are accurate.

The SSI is an improved part in a number of ways, and the datasheet is fantastically tailored to modular/DIY use thanks to a number of very knowledgeable contributors. If all datasheets were written that way we'd be driving our modulars to work.

User avatar
J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6677
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by J3RK » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:03 pm

Personally, I'd stick to the SSI part if at all possible. Its documentation is perfect, and it has behaved precisely as expected for everything that I've used it in so far. It also does not require the Schottky fix for the negative rail, and has other small improvements.
Are you lemon? Does your head come to a nub?

User avatar
BugBrand
Knowledge of Bugs
Posts: 7477
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:59 am

Post by BugBrand » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:38 pm

Ooh, Coolaudio have rejigged their datasheet so it looks like they've done some work - their business model, like the parent company, tends towards taking others' work and doing as little as possible to start cashing in.

SSI, on the other hand, employ great people to help ensure their datasheets are goldmines of useful info. Oh, and they have even improved the design of their 2164.

The 2164 is a great chip and I know with which company I choose to spend my money.

User avatar
J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6677
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by J3RK » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:55 pm

BugBrand wrote:Ooh, Coolaudio have rejigged their datasheet so it looks like they've done some work - their business model, like the parent company, tends towards taking others' work and doing as little as possible to start cashing in.

SSI, on the other hand, employ great people to help ensure their datasheets are goldmines of useful info. Oh, and they have even improved the design of their 2164.

The 2164 is a great chip and I know with which company I choose to spend my money.
Agreed. Also, it would be nice to keep sending money their way in hopes of more of their style of reissue. (Maybe an improved SSI2040 :cloud: ) Though I guess that can really be done pretty easily just using the 2164. Still, I'd love to see more improved, reissued parts from them.
Are you lemon? Does your head come to a nub?

User avatar
BugBrand
Knowledge of Bugs
Posts: 7477
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:59 am

Post by BugBrand » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:38 pm

I checked back emails & Dan @ SSI had mentioned them working on two further designs (July time) - VCO and 2040 - both with interesting inclusions!
Good company from all interactions I've had to date.

User avatar
J3RK
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6677
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by J3RK » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:47 pm

BugBrand wrote:I checked back emails & Dan @ SSI had mentioned them working on two further designs (July time) - VCO and 2040 - both with interesting inclusions!
Good company from all interactions I've had to date.
:yay: :cloud: :party: :tu: :banana:
Are you lemon? Does your head come to a nub?

User avatar
windspirit
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3074
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:43 pm
Location: krellifornia

Post by windspirit » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:10 pm

Based on my own messing around with both the SSM and SSI chips the SSI chips while having better specs are also more sensitive to the presence of the bypass RC network on the inputs and outputs. On the SSM chip I could get away with omitting these networks at all, with the SSI chips I had to follow the resistor and capacitor values very closely with what is suggested in the schematic.

Image

User avatar
neil.johnson
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1495
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Post by neil.johnson » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:43 am

Note that the resistor is the part that does the compensation, while the capacitor moves it out of the way of the audio band.

I would still recommend using the network with the original SSM parts - when it does oscillate it will be way above the range of hearing but will affect circuit stability.

Note also the 100pF capacitor around the linearising op-amp in the Irwin circuit is important for stability.

@PDLDLNT if you can share your schematic we may be able to help.

Neil
Random ramblings :: http://www.njohnson.co.uk
SSI parts and more :: https://www.cesyg.co.uk

User avatar
cackland
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2232
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:42 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re:

Post by cackland » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:02 pm

J3RK wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:03 pm
Personally, I'd stick to the SSI part if at all possible. Its documentation is perfect, and it has behaved precisely as expected for everything that I've used it in so far. It also does not require the Schottky fix for the negative rail, and has other small improvements.
Assuming the Schottky diode is still required for Coolaudio V2164?

User avatar
NV
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2565
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:40 pm

Re: Re:

Post by NV » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:21 am

cackland wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:02 pm
Assuming the Schottky diode is still required for Coolaudio V2164?
The SSM2164 and V2164 still need the protection diode. The SSI2164 revision resolves the power rail issue so no diode required there.

User avatar
cackland
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2232
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:42 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: Re:

Post by cackland » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:50 am

NV wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:21 am
cackland wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:02 pm
Assuming the Schottky diode is still required for Coolaudio V2164?
The SSM2164 and V2164 still need the protection diode. The SSI2164 revision resolves the power rail issue so no diode required there.
Great, thank you.

Post Reply

Return to “Music Tech DIY”