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ES-8 vs ES-9 for ableton integration
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author ES-8 vs ES-9 for ableton integration
codabass
Hey guys.. so the more I read about these 2, the more I'm feeling confused.

I need a module to integrate my ableton tracks into my eurorack.. but mostly to send each modules output to a new ableton track while I jam.

ES-8 seemed like a good option, but I see there is an es-9 with more tracks I can send to ableton. However, I hear people saying the es-8 is a better option becuase it has ADAT.

Question - what can I do with the ADAT feature? having a hard time figuring it out? is it to keep both sides (DAW and Eurorack in perfect sync? - ie. better than midi)?

would love a recommendation.. thanks guys!
mdoudoroff
Question number one: do you have, or are you planning to purchase, an interface with ADAT?
codabass
Not sure, but would say no at the moment.. basically I'm just looking to smoothly integrate my ableton with my eurorack (i.e. in ableton I have omnisphere, and cool vsts I would like to use in my productions), but be able to add analog drums etc from my rack.

I'm also looking at keeping the clocks in perfect sync, as latencyc is a pain to always deal with...

and what I would love to see is the ability to route each module (i.e. BIA to one track, Rings into another, - just like a multi track studio.

hope that makes scene.. thx

mdoudoroff wrote:
Question number one: do you have, or are you planning to purchase, an interface with ADAT?
mdoudoroff
There’s a good chance the ES-9 is the right module for you, but some things you should understand very clearly before taking the plunge:

1) The ES-9 (same with the ES-8) is a USB audio interface; if you’re on a Mac and you want to have this AND another audio interface (USB or other) running simultaneously, you’ll have to aggregate them; if you’re on a Windows, I’m not sure what your options are, but you may have to switch between them

2) The ES-9 has the headphone jack and outs for your speakers that would normally be on your “conventional” audio interface—factor that into your perspective and how it might affect your current m.o.

3) I don’t have an ES-9, but my impression is it works pretty much out of the box (I had an ES-8 and that was certainly true), but there are certain features you might have to configure with the configure tool ES supplies; know what you’re getting into

4) Before going this direction, you should read up on ADAT, the ES-3, the ES-6, and why some of us go that route (one approach is not “better” than the other, just different, and sometimes parallel)
Zerius
Quote:
1) The ES-9 (same with the ES-8) is a USB audio interface; if you’re on a Mac and you want to have this AND another audio interface (USB or other) running simultaneously, you’ll have to aggregate them; if you’re on a Windows, I’m not sure what your options are, but you may have to switch between them
n the other, just different, and sometimes parallel)


What do you mean by aggregate ? If I have a RME running in firewire on Ableton, are they going to conflict each others ?
mdoudoroff
Zerius wrote:
What do you mean by aggregate ? If I have a RME running in firewire on Ableton, are they going to conflict each others ?


I haven’t used Ableton, but I presume it’s like Logic or Bitwig in that you can only choose a single audio interface, and that determines what ins and outs you’ve got to work with. You might only be able to use one at a time unless you aggregate them somehow?

As far as I know, when you connect an audio interface, your computer is going to offload much of its audio I/O responsibilities to it, and it needs a unified front. The Mac has a feature called Aggregate Device that allows you connect multiple audio interfaces to the Mac, and then treat them as one giant (aggregate) interface. That’s precisely what I do with two PreSonus Thunderbolt interfaces.
Zerius
To resume it should be able to be working in company of traditional Audio interface?
I think, I would still need a OTB interface for my other synths and drum machines, but that module looks great to record quickly your modular jams and stems. I just wait for additional informations about noise, headroom and latency of this thing.
mdoudoroff
Perhaps this will help?

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071609-Using-Aggregate-D evices-and-multiple-audio-interfaces
AKaudio
[quote="mdoudoroff"]
Zerius wrote:
That’s precisely what I do with two PreSonus Thunderbolt interfaces.


Do you run into any issues doing this?
Jaypee
The ES-9's specifications are as follows:

Panel width: 16HP
Module depth (including power cable): 50mm
Current draw: 451mA on the +12V rail, 133mA on the -12V rail (at 96kHz)
USB socket: Type C
Driver suport: class-compliant USB 2.0 (no driver required for macOS and iOS - Windows drivers provided for Windows 7, 8 & 10)
Channel count: 16 in, 16 out
Supported sample rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
Audio sample depth: 24 bit
Analogue outputs:
8x 3.5mm TS jacks, DC-coupled, Maximum output voltage approximately ±10V
2x 1/4" TRS balanced jacks, AC-coupled (main outs)
1x 1/4" TRS stereo jack, DC-coupled (headphones)
Analogue inputs:
14x 3.5mm TS jacks, DC-coupled, Input voltage range approximately ±10V
Digital I/O: 1x S/PDIF input (TOSlink), 1x S/PDIF output (TOSlink)
MIDI I/O: 1 input, 1 output (on breakout)
Expansion headers: 1 for ES-5, 1 for MIDI breakout
Panel controls: headphone volume
Internal mixer: 8x8 crosspoint mixer


ES-9 is good if you extend your rig, you'll have enough ins and outs.


Next batch is in december I think...don't sleep on it if you want one!
mdoudoroff
AKaudio wrote:
mdoudoroff wrote:
That’s precisely what I do with two PreSonus Thunderbolt interfaces.


Do you run into any issues doing this?


The only problem I’ve yet encountered is that if I’ve powered off one or more of my interfaces and then power them back on, the aggregate device doesn’t quite coalesce. (It looks like it’s there, but audio isn’t happening with the DAW.) I currently reboot the computer to resolve that, but there’s probably a better solution—I just haven’t researched it. With that exception, it “just works”. Other than defining the aggregate device in the control panel (trivial—a couple clicks) no configuration required.
tr34tm3nt
I'll jump in with one small negative on using aggregate devices I've run into... if either of the interface drivers allow for MacOS to control main output volume, an aggregate device will override this and you will no longer be able to control main output volume with the volume control features in the OS (eg the volume buttons on the Mac keyboard).
mdoudoroff
tr34tm3nt wrote:
I'll jump in with one small negative on using aggregate devices I've run into... if either of the interface drivers allow for MacOS to control main output volume, an aggregate device will override this and you will no longer be able to control main output volume with the volume control features in the OS (eg the volume buttons on the Mac keyboard).


I‘ve found this to be the case with all the interfaces I’ve had. My primary interface has a big ol’ volume knob on the front, however, so I’m good.

My previous interface had a knob—in theory—but the interface was too convoluted, so I just kept the little utility mixer app that came with the interface running and managed the volume with that.
intuitionnyc
Another thing to consider is USB (ES-8) vs USB-C (ES-9), but this is not THAT big of a deal.
ZargZorg
the es-9 has no addat
tr34tm3nt
mdoudoroff wrote:
I‘ve found this to be the case with all the interfaces I’ve had. My primary interface has a big ol’ volume knob on the front, however, so I’m good.


that's been my experience too, until I got a MOTU interface that actually did work with the OS buttons. I got so used to it that I was bummed when it didn't carry over to the aggregated devices.
Bbman
I use a nw2s::io Unbalanced I/O to send eight channels out to ableton, which is super simply so long as you sound card had eight ins. I use an ES 3 and 5 with ableton CV control pack to bring back modulation and triggers from ableton via an adat out. I recently purchased an ES6 used to get eight more ins with ADAT, but have not really implemented it yet.

I also recently purchased a monome Crow, which, among other things, lets me use ableton and max devices with my modular set up. The Crow is super powerful. but has received little attention here.
Severed head
I haven’t used any of the ES options but looking into them and was wondering is there any time lag at high resolution when doing track by track?
In a typical set up, like adding a modular track over a drum track, then another and another of various gears.
jessem
Severed head wrote:
I haven’t used any of the ES options but looking into them and was wondering is there any time lag at high resolution when doing track by track?
In a typical set up, like adding a modular track over a drum track, then another and another of various gears.


There is latency for all audio interfaces, and the ES stuff is no exception.

There are very in depth posts on here about ways to deal with it when monitoring and recording depending on your setup and DAW. I haven't found a set it and forget it forever type of solution, but you can still account for it and manage it.

Clock and timing is all perfectly in sync though once you account for latency.
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