delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

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bbow73
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delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by bbow73 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:06 pm

I’ve been looking at the Donner Echo Square as a cheap solution to getting increasing saturation effects (bitrez-filter/res-overdrive) in the delay taps, as opposed to a Line 6 or some boutique box but... there’s got to be some eurorack developer that’s already put this in a module with CV right? I know Tiptop has a card with a sweep delay... actually I’m not sure.

Anyone know of a tone variable delay or one in production?
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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by scragz » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:16 pm

Probably easier to find a delay with an effect loop where you can patch in whatever you want. DLD and Chronoblob2 come to mind.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by guigui » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:36 pm

Maybe Lyra 8 FX?

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by bbow73 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:42 pm

scragz wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:16 pm
Probably easier to find a delay with an effect loop where you can patch in whatever you want. DLD and Chronoblob2 come to mind.
Wouldn’t that just be a flat effect on the taps versus a cumulative effect? And if so, wouldn’t the bit crusher & overdrive not sound right at the low volume of the trailing taps?
(not trying to an ass, I really don’t know)
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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by scragz » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:13 pm

bbow73 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:42 pm
Wouldn’t that just be a flat effect on the taps versus a cumulative effect? And if so, wouldn’t the bit crusher & overdrive not sound right at the low volume of the trailing taps?
Nah the whole thing that makes it cool is the effects are then part of the main delay feedback loop, so each successive repetition is effected more and more. It would be just like how the all-in-one pedals are doing it, except with an accessible send/return you can put anything in there instead of only what the delay has; a more "modular" approach IMO. I mostly use it with a high pass filter to get them floating away or low pass filter for analog simulation but it works with whatever.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by vidret » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:39 am

I might be alone on this, but i find the problem with FX loops on delays is that the first repeat of the echo has not yet gone through the loop, so if you want to, for example, run it through a lowpass filter (because the repeats are crunch af) then you'll get one very crunchy repeat before they start fading out.
If the effect is drastically different from the original repeat without effect it's a bit annoying having that one repeat stand out.

this can obviously be fixed by running the wet out through an effect as well, but it's a bit bothersome.


I'm not sure, but I believe there are some FX send/returns that manage to run the first repeat through the loop, this fixes the issue (by sending the incoming audio into the feedback loop instead of recording it once first).
This could probably be patched to work in a delay without this structure as long as it has a feedback loop (by only inserting audio into the loop, I guess).

rant over.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by bbow73 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:46 am

scragz wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:13 pm
Nah the whole thing that makes it cool is the effects are then part of the main delay feedback loop, so each successive repetition is effected more and more. It would be just like how the all-in-one pedals are doing it, except with an accessible send/return you can put anything in there instead of only what the delay has....
Whoa... that sounds like the solution. The Chronoblob2 is about the same $ as a Donner ES + fx send module... but with more flexibility & CV. :banana:
Thank you!
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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by continuum » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:03 am

bbow73 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:06 pm
I know Tiptop has a card with a sweep delay... actually I’m not sure.
We have a number of delay cards - Time Domain, Tape Echo, Dragonfly - for the ZDSP that have CV controls for what you want. You might want to check out the ECHOZ 8HP module which has 24 delay programs and even control over the DSP clock speed called 'Fidelity'.
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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by R.U.Nuts » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 am

vidret wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:39 am
I might be alone on this, but i find the problem with FX loops on delays is that the first repeat of the echo has not yet gone through the loop, so if you want to, for example, run it through a lowpass filter (because the repeats are crunch af) then you'll get one very crunchy repeat before they start fading out.
If the effect is drastically different from the original repeat without effect it's a bit annoying having that one repeat stand out.

this can obviously be fixed by running the wet out through an effect as well, but it's a bit bothersome.


I'm not sure, but I believe there are some FX send/returns that manage to run the first repeat through the loop, this fixes the issue (by sending the incoming audio into the feedback loop instead of recording it once first).
This could probably be patched to work in a delay without this structure as long as it has a feedback loop (by only inserting audio into the loop, I guess).

rant over.
That's why it's better to patch your own feedback loop. This works even with delays without a send/return.
-Patch your input signal into a multiple
-one multiple out into mixer A, another out into mixer B
-mixer A out into delay input
-delay output with minimum feedback and fully wet into the effect you want to use
-effect output into a multiple.
-first output of that multiple into mixer A, second into mixer B
-take output from mixer B
-the input channel of mixer A that has the delay-fx chain is your feedback control, the channel with the input signal is your delay input gain, mixer B mixes dry-wet ratio.

That's one reason why it's always good to have some multiples and small mixers around.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by bbow73 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:54 am

R.U.Nuts wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 am
.....That's one reason why it's always good to have some multiples and small mixers around.
Man, modular people think on a completely different level than conventional synth folks.
I had to read that 3x to pick up what I were putting down. That’s an awesome hack!
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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by bbow73 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:55 am

continuum wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:03 am
We have a number of delay cards - Time Domain, Tape Echo, Dragonfly - for the ZDSP that have CV controls for what you want. You might want to check out the ECHOZ 8HP module which has 24 delay programs and even control over the DSP clock speed called 'Fidelity'.
Just finished this demo... it’s pretty impressive. There’s a lot going on with this module
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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by R.U.Nuts » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:05 pm

bbow73 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:54 am
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 am
.....That's one reason why it's always good to have some multiples and small mixers around.
Man, modular people think on a completely different level than conventional synth folks.
I had to read that 3x to pick up what I were putting down. That’s an awesome hack!
Well, that's basically building an FX send/return like you have it on any mixing console. I learned this from dub reggae mixing techniques, not from using my modular. The dub guys plug their send effects back into normal mixer channels and use their own fx sends to create feedback loops. By utilizing the EQs on the channel strips they change the sound of the feedbacks like you would do with a VCF in that modular synth example I posted above.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by vidret » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:26 pm

R.U.Nuts wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 am

That's why it's better to patch your own feedback loop. This works even with delays without a send/return.
yes but also i'm lazy and my system is small :lol: :lol:

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by R.U.Nuts » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:49 pm

vidret wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:26 pm
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 am

That's why it's better to patch your own feedback loop. This works even with delays without a send/return.
yes but also i'm lazy and my system is small :lol: :lol:
You don't need a lot of rack space for this. In fact you could use a very small and basic delay, stackcables and two 4HP mixers which could probably end up in less HP and money spent all together than some of the delay modules with a built in send/return. And making that patch is neither difficult nor time consuming.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by jsco » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:32 pm

You don't need a lot of rack space for this. In fact you could use a very small and basic delay, stackcables and two 4HP mixers
i just did this the other day using the wmd dplr delay (which does not have a built in fx send). at first i did with stackables and 2 channels of a 3xMIA, and then i realized that i could do the whole thing in midair with two splix mixers. worked perfectly! (looks like shit, though.)

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by vidret » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:09 pm

R.U.Nuts wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:49 pm
vidret wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:26 pm
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 am

That's why it's better to patch your own feedback loop. This works even with delays without a send/return.
yes but also i'm lazy and my system is small :lol: :lol:
You don't need a lot of rack space for this. In fact you could use a very small and basic delay, stackcables and two 4HP mixers which could probably end up in less HP and money spent all together than some of the delay modules with a built in send/return. And making that patch is neither difficult nor time consuming.

i do do this at times when the first-repeat issue gets to me. I have a matrix mixer and a tyme sefari mk2, so there's surely enough send/returns, i'm just bummed the feedback loop on the TSmk2 (and other delay pedals ive encountered) even has this issue.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by scragz » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:25 pm

vidret wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:09 pm
i do do this at times when the first-repeat issue gets to me.
When I had a DLD, I recall it had an alternate firmware or some setting where you could send the first repeat through the send loop but had the side effect that you needed to patch it directly to the return if you weren't using the loop.

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Re: delay w variable lofi/sweep/od?

Post by vidret » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:02 pm

if the TSmk2 firmware update ever happens i hope it includes this change.

one can dream

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