How to get any Buchla osc. to mimic the Hertz Donut!

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Kent
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How to get any Buchla osc. to mimic the Hertz Donut!

Post by Kent » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:54 pm

Seeing as how imitation is the most sincere form of flattery; from Buchla to Harvestman and now back again, I'd like to ask how to do what jonkull has mentioned here. I found the tracking modes to be the most charming aspect of the Hertz Donut and would love to replicate it.
jonkull wrote:
I set up a patch last night that attempted to mimic the Hertz Donut's tracking modes where the mod oscillator was attempting to follow the principal oscillator using two sections of the 266e. One to generate the random voltages and the other to delay the voltage by one pulse. It was about 90% there but getting the pitch CVs exact was next to impossible. I wonder if something like this could be done with the 225e. Does the 225e serve as a kind of internal quantizer or is it specific to MIDI sent and received from an external source?
Ideas? Thoughts? Patchbook recipes?

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jonkull
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Post by jonkull » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:29 pm

I'd love to replicate it too. :lol:
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by nrdvrgr » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:32 pm

I can help you - lets just exchange my HD´s for your Buchla oscillators.
Problem solved, everyone´s happy.

:party:
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Post by jonkull » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:42 pm

I don't remember how I had this set up specifically. It took about two hours of tweaking but it was something like this...

Image

One pulse picks the pitch for the principal oscillator. That voltage also gets sent to the skew in on the 266e which is set up as a sample and hold. The second pulse (empty 281e channel) is like a delay so you can adjust the spacing between the pitch changes. Third pulse triggers the Mod oscillator which then receives the stored voltage from the 266e which changes pitch to match the principal...and on and on. It's not exact and I'd love for someone smarter than me to come up with a better way. I've been thinking about buying a Donut just for this feature.
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by jonkull » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:49 pm

I want to try this again only with a fluctuating voltage patched to the degree and chaos inputs of the stored voltages. I think there should be a little randomness in there somewhere.
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by N59 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:00 pm

I'm sick of all these "how do I get my buchla to sound like a hertz donut" threads. There's no substitute for a hertz donut, so just accept your buchla for what it is. If you can't, bite the bullet. Sell all your buchla and go euro! :hihi:

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Post by Kent » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:01 pm

nrdvrgr wrote:I can help you - lets just exchange my HD´s for your Buchla oscillators.
Problem solved, everyone´s happy.

:party:
:fu: :yay:

N59 wrote:I'm sick of all these "how do I get my buchla to sound like a hertz donut" threads. There's no substitute for a hertz donut, so just accept your buchla for what it is. If you can't, bite the bullet. Sell all your buchla and go euro! :hihi:
Bravo!

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Post by chinard » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:12 pm

i have been trying to get my Ferrari to mimic the behavior of my Prius.
anybody have any suggestions?

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Post by jonkull » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:14 pm

I don't know. I thought it was a fun experiment. I guess patching is serious business. :roll:
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by parasitk » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:16 pm

Awesome thread! :yay: :lol:

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Post by Lyonel » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:22 pm

Image

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Post by dkcg » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:05 pm

Bastards....now I'm thinking about how to simulate the bad and worse tracking modes. I'm thinking send a frequency CV to the primary, same CV through a 256e along with a SOU CV modulating the original frequency CV, bad would be maybe a 50-50 mix of CV and SOU, worse would be all SOU CV and little to no frequency CV, maybe some CV feedback to flavour. I'm sure it would not sound the same tho.

I think the 259e may be closer in sound, even though it's more similar to the Piston Honda in concept. I know I've heard some very aliased gritty digital sounds out of that more easily than the 261e.

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jonkull
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Post by jonkull » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:08 pm

Probably wouldn't sound the same but you should try it anyway. No 256e here so I can't do it.
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by felix » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:44 pm

In theory, you just need some modulation feedback (Primary also modulates the Modulator) with lag processing in between.

I don't think it will sound exactly, but should get pretty close.
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Post by amnesia » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:18 am

there's an app for that :-)

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Post by Navs » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:33 am

PLL/ sync + xmod?

Addding random to the pitch CV doesn't sound right - you want to mess with the synchronization of the two oscillators.

Ironically, this is the kind of spaz-sync you can coax out of the AFG. If you were to then modulate the master with the slave you might get the HD's seeming randomness, right?

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Post by jonkull » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:50 am

I think this would probably be a lot easier to do if the mod osc responded to CVs when it was in pitch track mode.
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by dougcl » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 pm

Not sure what a HD does (never owned one), but I got some nice PLL activity from the 259e by putting the mod osc in soft sync, tracking off, then sending the same pitch to both oscillators, and adding a very small amount of 266e FRV to the mod osc pitch, or merely detuning the mod osc by giving it a very slight amount of pitch attenuation.

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Post by Kent » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:52 pm

Doug, that sounds like the right direction. I can't wait to try it, although it'll be a while. :cry:

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Post by jonkull » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:02 pm

dougcl wrote:Not sure what a HD does (never owned one), but I got some nice PLL activity from the 259e by putting the mod osc in soft sync, tracking off, then sending the same pitch to both oscillators, and adding a very small amount of 266e FRV to the mod osc pitch, or merely detuning the mod osc by giving it a very slight amount of pitch attenuation.
I thought the mod oscillator didn't respond to pitch CV when in tracking mode. Mine doesn't seem to at least. How are you doing this?

As far as what the Hertz Donut does you can set it so the mod osc tracks the principal osc with different degrees of success. So when the pitch of the principal is changed the mod will try to catch up to it with different degrees of success. It has a kind of noise through s/h type sound only more interesting and pleasant (at least to me).
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by dougcl » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:42 pm

dougcl wrote:putting the mod osc in soft sync, tracking off

Meaning, don't put it in tracking mode. Use soft sync to get it to try to hook up. Since soft sync can't really do the job, help it with varying amounts of messed up pitch cv. In this situation, the PLL in the 259e will start to do some of that squirrely A-196 stuff.
Last edited by dougcl on Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jonkull
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Post by jonkull » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:45 pm

Duh, I don't know how I misread that. :lol:
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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Post by dougcl » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:47 pm

Try it you like it.

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Post by Kent » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:35 pm

chinard wrote:i have been trying to get my Ferrari to mimic the behavior of my Prius.
anybody have any suggestions?
Put batteries in it.

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Post by dkcg » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:04 am

I tried and failed. :doh:

But I came up with this after getting distracted.

http://soundcloud.com/ibdk/donutribute

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