Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe.

natureclubcassettes
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:59 pm
Location: chicago

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by natureclubcassettes » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:47 pm

Outs are indeed identical. I typically use one as part of a feedback loop. Recently I have been taking one of the outs into an Erbe Verb and then sending the Mono out from that back into the ResEQ Input two. It requires a lot of attenuation but sounds really great. One could take this concept a lot further, sending the other out to another effect or filter and then summing the signals back into the ResEQ, or adding additional effects into the feedback loop; you'll just need to be able to attenuate because it can get out of hand pretty quickly.

I've found that Comb 1 and 2 will sound really stereo animated when the bands are either inverted or I have tuned the resonances really well to a particular sound and opposite bands will resonate at different times. This can be quite the process, as changing one band affects the others, but it sounds really great once you've hit a really sweet spot. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned it being like using a no-input mixing board and it's a lot like that.

another thing I've really enjoyed lately is sending VCO>MMG (or any filter with VC Res and Cutoff) with lots of slow, subtle modulation>ResEQ. The evolving resonances from the filter before the EQ make it so various bands are highlighted at different times.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by autopoiesis » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:41 pm

how would using the regular outs work for stereo? they're identical. the comb outs would work better for stereo. agree that crossfading between them is great.

my main use for the second (non comb) output is to patch it through a vca and then into the second input, to get VC over feedback (light touch necessary). saves a stack cable I guess

natureclubcassettes
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:59 pm
Location: chicago

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by natureclubcassettes » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:51 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:41 pm
how would using the regular outs work for stereo? they're identical. the comb outs would work better for stereo. agree that crossfading between them is great.

my main use for the second (non comb) output is to patch it through a vca and then into the second input, to get VC over feedback (light touch necessary). saves a stack cable I guess
The combs are better for stereo. The regular outs are identical. Sorry, maybe I was unclear.

Try patching something between your VCA and the second input for some fun. My Erbe has a build-in VCA, so it eliminates that.

natureclubcassettes
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:59 pm
Location: chicago

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by natureclubcassettes » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:52 pm

OH!! I understand what you are saying. I am using the "summed" out into the Erbe and out of Erbe in MONO. I am not running it in stereo in this patch, just using it as a mono part of the feedback loop.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by autopoiesis » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:51 am

no, i was responding to Biom before you because i didn’t see your post. good tips by the way!

viilis
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:44 am

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by viilis » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:24 pm

Can anyone point me to a resource with patch ideas with the ResEq? I recently bought one used, mostly for instant gratification feedback fun, but this thread got me thinking there might be all kinds of uses for it that I haven't thought of yet.

Black_Materia
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 10:38 am

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by Black_Materia » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:03 pm

So i finally bought a Res EQ and Instruo's TanH limiter/shaper and have started to delve into more extreme experiments with feedback.
Really loving it. The EQ drives beautifully warm, so the level worry i had is a non-issue.

TanH is the perfect companion to keep feedback paths more in check. super beefy and chunky sounds pouring out.

I love how the different bands interact, sometimes dialing back a band can have an other one pop out, giving all sorts of interesting sonic surprises and variation. It takes a bit of experimenting to be able to make it musical with high feedback, since the frequency centers of the fixed bands start asserting themselves.
You can either adjust the root key of the melody so they complement each other, but using a keytracked filter in the feedback path is also great. when combining the internal feedback path inverted together with a processed external one from the comb outputs, you can get almost FMlike timbres through the interfering of the differently phased feedback paths.

Pinging with an oscillator in sub audio frequency range gives great ringning basses and sounds with the acoustic character of Surdo/timbales and Toms. Especially when adding a lowpassgate pluck to output signal, input signal or feedback path.

Using the second output to FM the input oscillator is pretty interesting, too. You can almost emphasise specific harmonics creating the sidebands. Might be interesting to just process an FM path with a more complex waveform.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by autopoiesis » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:49 pm

great ideas here black materia.

transistorresistor
Common Wiggler
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by transistorresistor » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:45 pm

neonmercury1 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:20 pm
I really find that with the R*S the type of capacitor really plays an important role in the sound of the feedback
while you will find no shortage of people out there willing to suggest that "caps make no sound" despite the fact that in an AC circuit caps connect the entire AC path, the one single cap that tends to open peoples eye's on this topic is the feedback cap in a circuit with global feedback. In 2020 its pretty common for most amps you listen to to be stabilized via feedback and the feedback circuit on this eq works in a similar fashion, albeit for different function. So what is happening is you are taking the entire output of the amp, pumping all that good sound you just made through one single cap and feeding that back to the input. So when you change the material that the single feedback cap is made out of from polystyrene to polypropylene, to mylar, to teflon, to PET, to polycarbonate, to ceramic, to oil impregnated paper, etc. in the feedback position youll tend hear changes between cap construction pretty easily and is a fine place to start tuning the tone of your circuit w cap selection. Some positions in a circuit you will hear less drastic changes by varying cap construction but in my experience a global feedback cap in almost any circuit ive designed or repaired tends to have a large fingerprint on the vibe of the whole circuit when you vary the construction of that capacitor.

joskery
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:15 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by joskery » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:22 pm

Would pairing this with something like a multi filter be a good idea? Thinking of something like the Stereo Dipole from SSF. My thinking is that combined with this, I could have a nice setup for resonator-type effecting and things of that nature... Any thoughts? Is it daft to plonk a filter after this?

User avatar
breadman
Common Wiggler
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:22 pm
Location: PDX yo

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by breadman » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:25 pm

joskery wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:22 pm
Would pairing this with something like a multi filter be a good idea? Thinking of something like the Stereo Dipole from SSF. My thinking is that combined with this, I could have a nice setup for resonator-type effecting and things of that nature... Any thoughts? Is it daft to plonk a filter after this?
Any sort of audio signal processor, be it filter, wavefolder, or VCA, will do crazy and beautiful things before, after, or in a feedback loop with the ResEQ. So, yes!
Need a synth built? Get in touch!

email: jschnvr@gmail.com
IG: @jackssynthbazaar

User avatar
Biom
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:57 am
Location: moskwa

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by Biom » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:32 am

autopoiesis wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:41 pm
how would using the regular outs work for stereo? they're identical.
Same as they do in all polyphonic synths - you have L and R outs, that are, actually, 2 identical mono outputs.

I highly disagree with your sentence about comb outputs being better for stereo. People use this module very differently, so what is better for you might not be better for everyone. When people pass this "wild feedback euphoria" period, they realise, that it's a great EQ tool too, both for Serge and external signals. Soup Kitchen panels were sometimes used in studios for processing. Utilising it for wild feedbacks only is a great waste of Serge capabilities and money. Besides, words "better" or "worse" are not the best ones, if one is looking for ideas or creativity.

Regarding feedbacks, UAP is a great way to utilise all the depth and strength of the ResEQ and other Serge modules' feedbacks, since it has a panner and an xfade besides vca's. You can, of course, place any modules in-between, making mono or stereo signals. I can see endless variations here, once you start thinking "recursively" and understand how a certain module works.
On a side note, I'd highly recommend not to be limited by the audio signals only. CV recursion is beautiful, both conceptually and sonically.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by autopoiesis » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:49 am

cheers, a lot to unpack here.
Biom wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:32 am
Same as they do in all polyphonic synths - you have L and R outs, that are, actually, 2 identical mono outputs.
all polyphonic synths' L and R outputs are identical? maybe if you're talking about the earliest polysynths like the OB-X, but most modern polysynths have "stereo spread" controls which pan overlapping voices differently across the stereo field, or at least offer truly stereo effects that make the L and R outputs quite different in phase and frequency content. even the Juno 106's L and R outputs become nonidentical when you engage the built-in chorus, and the ESQ-1 from '85 has a stereo spread / voice panning control.
Biom wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:32 am
I highly disagree with your sentence about comb outputs being better for stereo. People use this module very differently, so what is better for you might not be better for everyone.
I take it as a ground-level assumption that when anyone shares an opinion about anything being "better" or "worse" in synthesis, there's an implicit disclaimer of "[depending on the context/application, depending on the ears]" tacked on after the "better" or "worse".

when someone asks "for a wide stereo image, what's the best use of the two different dual outputs -- where two are identical, and two [the comb outs] have nonidentical phase and frequency properties", it's obvious to me that comb outputs are "better" to use for a wide stereo image. (panning two identical outputs left and right will produce a result that is perceived to be in the middle of the stereo field.) AFAIK natureclubcassettes and I weren't trying to generalize a highly idiosyncratic preference as in a claim like "the best LPF is a transistor ladder filter", we were addressing a pretty straightforward question about how to produce a wide stereo image.
Biom wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:32 am
Besides, words "better" or "worse" are not the best ones, if one is looking for ideas or creativity.
we agree here. it's most helpful to qualify a "better" claim with "for [particular application]" to inspire ideas and productive discussion. but given the framing of the original question, that was clearly implied.
Biom wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:32 am
When people pass this "wild feedback euphoria" period, they realise, that it's a great EQ tool too, both for Serge and external signals. Soup Kitchen panels were sometimes used in studios for processing. Utilising it for wild feedbacks only is a great waste of Serge capabilities and money. Besides, words "better" or "worse" are not the best ones, if one is looking for ideas or creativity.
I would disagree that it's a "great waste of Serge money to use the res EQ for feedback patches" when nothing else sounds like it in that application. here it's purely a matter of taste. but I agree that it's a great EQ tool too.

User avatar
Biom
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:57 am
Location: moskwa

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by Biom » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:14 am

Comb outputs do not make a wider stereo. Naturally you'll get a slightly different image in L and R channels independently. If that's what one is looking for, then it's an easy patch and an obvious one. Crossfading, amp modulating these 2 comb outs will bring this effect even further, again, if that is the task.
Stereo widening is a different question and a complicated one. I'm not sure it can be done with this module or that was the aim behind it, but who knows, people still discover new things with Serge!

I wasn't trying to find faults in your words, it was an offer to all of us to be more open-minded and free of making big statements, in order to look at things from different angles.

Finally, Serge feedback is a great and endless exploration, didn't argue with that. What I noticed is that this thread is very "feedback heavy", which, again, is fine, but there's definitely an overlook in other ResEQ applications.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by autopoiesis » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:27 am

word, thanks for clarifying :tu:

adaris
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by adaris » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:12 pm

Been playing with the Elby version (ES-22) today, just wanted to chime in and say it's also fantastic whether using it as an EQ tool or for feedback or both. Money well spent.

bibleblack
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:34 pm

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by bibleblack » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:59 am

I have been looking at the elby modules how does the resonant eq compare to the random source one?

User avatar
PiecesOfQuiet
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:00 pm
Location: Bright, VIC, Australia

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by PiecesOfQuiet » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:43 am

bibleblack wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:59 am
I have been looking at the elby modules how does the resonant eq compare to the random source one?
Internals would be mostly the same, it lacks the extra input and the feedback knob, as well as potentially being built with lower gain on the input (depending). The first two could be achieved through patching pretty easily of course, probably the third too, but it's nice to have it in the module already.

adaris
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:49 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by adaris » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:17 am

Also should mention the Elby version is 70 mm deep, so fitting it in some cases could be a problem.

User avatar
CaneMan
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Albany, NY
Contact:

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by CaneMan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:43 am

I think I'm ready to order a Res EQ. I'm looking at an Elby one as I type. It's larger than I'd like, but the price is right (and my cases are deep). Is this really just a "Get one. Get one now." sort of thing?

droningspaghettimonster
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by droningspaghettimonster » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:12 am

i can't imagine the res eq without access for the individual outputs. feels so luxury. and it makes literally everything sound a little bit more beautiful. :sb:

natureclubcassettes
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:59 pm
Location: chicago

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by natureclubcassettes » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:20 pm

CaneMan wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:43 am
I think I'm ready to order a Res EQ. I'm looking at an Elby one as I type. It's larger than I'd like, but the price is right (and my cases are deep). Is this really just a "Get one. Get one now." sort of thing?
I'm sure the Elby one is just fine, but I really, really love the second input along with the extra sum out. Not to mention the feedback attenuator and polarity switch!! I'd pay the little extra for that. Really helpful for reigning in resonances just to the edge of feedback.

Plus (maybe this is just me) the R*S one looks a lot nicer and more Serge-y.

User avatar
CaneMan
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Albany, NY
Contact:

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by CaneMan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:46 pm

natureclubcassettes wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:20 pm
CaneMan wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:43 am
I think I'm ready to order a Res EQ. I'm looking at an Elby one as I type. It's larger than I'd like, but the price is right (and my cases are deep). Is this really just a "Get one. Get one now." sort of thing?
I'm sure the Elby one is just fine, but I really, really love the second input along with the extra sum out. Not to mention the feedback attenuator and polarity switch!! I'd pay the little extra for that. Really helpful for reigning in resonances just to the edge of feedback.

Plus (maybe this is just me) the R*S one looks a lot nicer and more Serge-y.
I ordered the Elby one. However, I have this funny feeling I might buy the R*S one later. :tu:

User avatar
mattdennewitz
Common Wiggler
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:49 am
Location: chicago
Contact:

Re: Random*Source Resonant Equalizer... or?

Post by mattdennewitz » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:53 pm

curious how the elby feels. the knobs on the r*s version feel perfect to turn (and the module looks beautiful).
-m

wiggle hunt, global synth gear search: https://wigglehunt.com

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”