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JJP Samplecorder
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Synthetic Sound Labs  
Author JJP Samplecorder
bwhittington
I was reading up on this little fellow this evening, and I'm curious if this will have the ability to start recording from a cv trigger. It looks like this is the case via the record/play panel legending, but how will this work? Do you arm it for recording (push button or cv trigger?) and then it records instead of plays back? Does it record for the length of the pulse or is it a start/stop trigger? Also, I don't really see anything on the panel that looks like it toggles between two samples.

Just trying to get my head around this one. If it had the ability to record and playback via cv triggers, that would be pretty trippy. For some reason, I'm guessing that won't be able to be a fully automated process. , though. The ability to chain these or trigger other events is pretty cool. Lots of intrigue here to me. It seems like something I could end up wanting a handful of depending on how it operates.

Cheers,
Brian

dslocum
Brian,

Obviously, I'm trying to as much out of this analog speech recorder chip as I can. You're looking at the original panel concept, so as I say on my site, this is preliminary stuff - don't hold me to any of it till it's real please!

My intent is to allow two samples. Each sample can be manually played back by either a separate panel pushbutton or gate signal (second not shown on this mockup). The sample will playback until complete and then fire the Done output gate jack. If the second sample was triggered at sometime during the playback, the second sample will sound, fire the Done output, and then continue cycling between sample 1 and 2. Hence looping a single sample or both samples as long as the gate is applied. If either sample is Done and there's no pending sample 2 trigger, AND gate 1 is still active, sample 1 will loop until the gate is released. Same for sample 2 looping. The Done output is a 5 volt positive pulse of about 5-10 ms and can trigger anything else, including another samplecorder.

There's a Record/Play switch on the panel. If in record mode and one of the two gate inputs is applied, that sample is recorded for as long as the gate is applied, up to about 30 seconds. There is no indication when time is up - use a stopwatch! :-) Both sample work this way.

Some minor drawbacks that I'll try to get around, but doubt there's much I can do... Samples play until the end of the sample - not my idea, it's the chip. :-( There's a brief delay between the time the sample is done and the next sample can begin - on the order of about 10 ms, hence minor sound gap (fill it with reverb?).

Cheers
ritchiedrums
dslocum wrote:

Some minor drawbacks that I'll try to get around, but doubt there's much I can do... Samples play until the end of the sample - not my idea, it's the chip. :-( There's a brief delay between the time the sample is done and the next sample can begin - on the order of about 10 ms, hence minor sound gap (fill it with reverb?).

Cheers


thumbs up Or ANOTHER 1310 thumbs up
bwhittington
This may be asking too much of the poor little chip, or the overworked engineer designing the module, but I was thinking it would be interesting if it were possible to send a pulse to arm the recorder, thereby allowing you to sample random snippets and play them back in a largely automated process. Could that be done by the user adding a vc switch to the design? Or is that a dumb idea for the way this guy really works?

Cheers,
Brian
dslocum
bwhittington wrote:
This may be asking too much of the poor little chip, or the overworked engineer designing the module, but I was thinking it would be interesting if it were possible to send a pulse to arm the recorder, thereby allowing you to sample random snippets and play them back in a largely automated process. Could that be done by the user adding a vc switch to the design? Or is that a dumb idea for the way this guy really works?

Cheers,
Brian


Brian,

Not dumb at all. I'm all ears to you guys. Hell, if you guys aren't the driving forces of the Renaissance of MU analog synths, then who is? I'm just the damned shoemaker! :-)

Are you suggesting that you'd like to sort of randomly collect audio samples into the chip every time a "record" gate/trigger comes in ?? Interesting concept.

I doubt it's possible based on chip limits, but I can keep it in mind as I work on the firmware this project.
bwhittington
Yes, that sums up my kooky idea. Kind of a "found sound" concept. I'm down for at least one of these guys in any case, but I'd be tempted to get a bunch of them if this proved possible. I would really enjoy having a symphony of gobbledygook at my fingertips.

Actually, what you describe still sounds cool. If you had an incoming sequence of gates, can you flip the switch, have the unit record for the length of the next gate, and flip the switch back (or a momentary switch?) and have it be off to the races playing the new sample when triggered again? I'm imagining this used in conjunction with a trigger sequencer for dicing up a sound source into rhythmic patterns. If I have my head around it right, it sounds pretty nifty.

Seems like the manual switch(es) should be at the top of the unit for easy access. Not to try to rearrange your ideas. It's just a module I'm excited about.

Cheers,
Brian

PS. You're one heck of a "shoemaker." thumbs up
dslocum
bwhittington wrote:
gobbledygook at my fingertips.


I get that sometimes, but less as I get older. cry lol

bwhittington wrote:
PS. You're one heck of a "shoemaker." thumbs up


LOL - Thanks so much - We try!
kindredlost
Low Gobble-T-Gook...

I'll just lurk now thank you.
dslocum
OK - I thought I'd allay any rumors that the SampleCorder is just a figment of my feable imagination, so here's a bit of a tease.

The firmware for the CPU was holding things up a bit, but I got it running this morning and with a couple minor tweeks, its working great. After some listening tests and subsequent resistor value changes, I'm pretty pleased with the functions and performance.

Here's a couple pix of my SteamSynth prototype....


bwhittington
Looks nice, Doug! I'm glad to see that the Steam Synth aesthetic is living on. If that ends up being the final layout, the first thing I would do upon receiving one is change the switch to a horizontal orientation to match the labeling.

Can't wait to hear some demos of it in use!

Cheers,
Brian
7thDanSound
Oh I've been wanting one of these for ages! Gimme gimme smile
dude
jazzz
tobias
This looks awesome! Any speculation on price yet?
dslocum
Jerri & I appreciate the encouragement, but it's still premature to define specs.

We DEFINATELY are looking for feed back. We've gotten a bunch of feedback already which is valuable, but based on our SteamSynth prototype images...

...WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE THE FUNCTIONALITY?

We're hoping to keep this in the $225.00 USD range. We're considering a way to give a quantity discount for folks that want to hook-up more than one. (Hint) Rockin' Banana!

Current functions:
----
RECORD:
Press and hold either Gate 1 or Gate 2 (Or alternately externally Gate 1 or 2)
The Input jack is recorded until the Gate1 or Gate 2 is released (25 seconds max per Gate input).

PLAYBACK:
Trigger or gate either Gate 1 or Gate 2. This begins a playback sequence.

When playing back Sample 1, then play sample 2 IF it's in queue.
When playing back Sample 2, then play sample 1 IF it's in queue.

Gates are sequential and in the order they are applied.

-----
Oh, Darned....
Phone calls, interruptions, etc... Shoot --- I lost my train of thought. Wine is GREAT. Wine is EVIL (not). You decide! Damn.

Till the next time....

Doh!
fac
Some ideas/questions:

1) Can you patch the Done output into Gate 1 or Gate 2 in order to achieve a "loop" mode?

2) Would it be possible to add CV control to the Play/Record switch in order to automate the recording process?

Suppose you add an extra "Record Gate" input. When in Play mode, the module would normally (i.e., Record Gate off) play a sample when receiving the corresponding gate, but when Record Gate is on, it would switch to record mode for as long as that gate is on, and a sample would be recorded for as long as its corresponding gate *and* Record Gate are both on. I know this probably means that if a sample is being played and Record Gate goes on, the output sound would be cut off, but it would also allow switching to record mode with a foot pedal, an LFO, or a sequencer.
kindredlost
I tend to think of this as a Looper module. Of course I believe in UFO's too. zombie
I use a "looper" on the KP3 pad quite a bit. (you've seen it on the demos)

I am still trying to grasp the entire ON/OFF function of this module...

1) Records until you release (or gate off)

2) Plays back when a trigger/gate is applied.

Now that could be good if you had a trigger/gate every bar or measure, but I still am having a time understanding how this is a workable method.

What I see as a normal function would be to have it record until the release/gate is - uhm, released then it would loop until (?). How does the gate hold it in if it was released to end the recording?

I'm missing something. (but not the wine comment - a good Australian Shiraz is in order) hihi
7thDanSound
You asked for it hihi

I like the notion of having one gate to control when to record/play and another input to decide wether to record or play, this would fit my style better. Also there could be a trig mode where a pulse starts playing the sample and it plays to the end. But this would kind of defer the gate thing above. I'd also like a loop mode so you can make very short samples and loop them like single cycles, maybe with CVs for start and end.

Ok, I went over board a bit Mr. Green Given the current topology and look I'm quite happy, can I just get a way to trigger recording with a gate and maybe shift between playback and recording with a gate I'm set. This looks to be a very useful module.

Oh, and will it do CV?
dslocum
fac wrote:

1) Can you patch the Done output into Gate 1 or Gate 2 in order to achieve a "loop" mode?


No need. If for instance, Gate1 started the Bank1 playing and it's still high (on) when play finishes, it will play again.

If Gate 1 started playing Bank1, and Gate2 goes high during that time, when Bank1 finished, Bank2 will start - same the other way around. Therefore, if Gate1 starts and stays high, then Gate2 goes high, when Bank1 is done playing, Bank2 will start and since but gates are still high, you'll get an alternating loop between Banks 1 & 2.

fac wrote:

2) Would it be possible to add CV control to the Play/Record switch in order to automate the recording process?


Will do. I'll call it "Record Gate" with record mode as high.

fac wrote:

Suppose you add an extra "Record Gate" input. When in Play mode, the module would normally (i.e., Record Gate off) play a sample when receiving the corresponding gate, but when Record Gate is on, it would switch to record mode for as long as that gate is on, and a sample would be recorded for as long as its corresponding gate *and* Record Gate are both on. I know this probably means that if a sample is being played and Record Gate goes on, the output sound would be cut off, but it would also allow switching to record mode with a foot pedal, an LFO, or a sequencer.


Not sure what you mean here. Are you asking for 2 record gate inputs ANDED together?
dslocum
kindredlost wrote:

1) Records until you release (or gate off)

Correct.

kindredlost wrote:

2) Plays back when a trigger/gate is applied.

Correct. See my response to FAC above.

kindredlost wrote:

Now that could be good if you had a trigger/gate every bar or measure, but I still am having a time understanding how this is a workable method.

What I see as a normal function would be to have it record until the release/gate is - uhm, released then it would loop until (?).

>>How does the gate hold it in if it was released to end the recording?

I can do that in firmware. Just an idea - Let's say FAC's Record input goes high, then Gate1 goes high. Bank1 will record until record input goes low, then if Gate1 is still high, it'll playback Bank1. Is that what you had in mind?

kindredlost wrote:

I'm missing something. (but not the wine comment - a good Australian Shiraz is in order) hihi

Seem's our tastes in wine well are aligned! It's peanut butter jelly time!
dslocum
7thDanSound wrote:
You asked for it hihi

I like the notion of having one gate to control when to record/play and another input to decide wether to record or play, this would fit my style better. Also there could be a trig mode where a pulse starts playing the sample and it plays to the end. But this would kind of defer the gate thing above. I'd also like a loop mode so you can make very short samples and loop them like single cycles, maybe with CVs for start and end.

Ok, I went over board a bit Mr. Green Given the current topology and look I'm quite happy, can I just get a way to trigger recording with a gate and maybe shift between playback and recording with a gate I'm set. This looks to be a very useful module.

Did I answer your questions in the previous posts?

7thDanSound wrote:

Oh, and will it do CV?

I really looked into doing that, but the entire compander chain has to be AC coupled. I gave up on that idea early on because of that. However, I think I'm in tune with the desire there, Bubb!
7thDanSound
dslocum wrote:
Did I answer your questions in the previous posts?


Yes! Thanks smile
tobias
Is there any way to control the speed of the loop playback?
kindredlost
dslocum wrote:
Just an idea - Let's say FAC's Record input goes high, then Gate1 goes high. Bank1 will record until record input goes low, then if Gate1 is still high, it'll playback Bank1. Is that what you had in mind?


Yes, The idea of a separate gate for record is the key thing.

So that is 3 gates. One for record, and two for each "bank"?

Next wrench in the works...

How do you determine which bank will be armed for record? Would that require a gate for each "bank record"?

Sounding a bit like we are planning a heist.
dslocum
tobias wrote:
Is there any way to control the speed of the loop playback?


Afraid not. Would be cool though.
dslocum
kindredlost wrote:


Yes, The idea of a separate gate for record is the key thing.

So that is 3 gates. One for record, and two for each "bank"?


Correct. Actually one for each bank, But I think I got your drift.

kindredlost wrote:

How do you determine which bank will be armed for record? Would that require a gate for each "bank record"?


The Record input/switch simply puts it into record "mode". The recording doesn't start until one of the gate inputs goes high.

kindredlost wrote:

Sounding a bit like we are planning a heist.


I thought we were!? lol
dslocum
OK guys, this is getting fun...

The record gate input is working. The only problem is that the speech chip seems to require about 100 milliseconds (.1 sec) to go from record to play mode. I can't find anything documented about that, but anything shorter locks up the chip. It's NOT that way going from play to record mode however, which is a good thing.

This means that if the gate input remains high after it goes out of record mode, there will be 100ms of silence before playback starts. I'll continue to try different fixes, but as of now, that's the story.

Also note that any playback must end before recording (or playback for that matter) can begin, but I think I've pointed that out before.
dslocum
Minor mod to the front panel.

In place of the push button for the gates, I'm putting a 3 position toggle. UP holds the gate input high (continuous looping), CENTER allows the Ext Gate Input to control, and spring loaded Momentary DOWN will be the same as the button. Capiche?

Anyone have additional input? Bring it on - It's hard to create in a vacuum. very frustrating
BananaPlug
Quote:
Anyone have additional input? Bring it on - It's hard to create in a vacuum. very frustrating

Maybe if you posted some demos. Maybe there are some but I didn't find them in what I thought were likely places. I'm curious about sound quality and latency. A simple demo of it embedded in a rhythmic patch would be helpful.
dslocum
Hmmm. Demos. I just realized I haven't really got a great setup for making demos, but I put these two together this morning. They are simply awful creatively (I'm a shoe-maker remember :-) ), but it should get a bit of how the SampleCorder sounds in the context of a slightly bandpass filtered rectangle wave sequence. (Note to self - Need more sequency toys)

Both tracks use a dumb 16 step sequence, with a "duck" sound at step 9. "Duck_Baby" are just samples found on the web and triggred at 9 & Done outputs of my sequencer respectively. "Duck_Shot" is the same duck at 9, but a nice sharp percussive snare shot at Done to show that the unit really fires quickly with no percepable latency.
dslocum
This is turning into more of a a blog, but hope it helps.

Now that I've had some time working with the sequencer stuff, I've discovered that the gate functions are not all that useful, so I've decided that the previous gate inputs should really be trigger (one-shot) inputs.

So now, the module is looking for triggers (one-shots) on the inputs, and ignoring continuous gates. I'll rename the inputs to "Trig" or "Trigger"

Before:
You could hold a gate input high and it would repeat as long as the gate was high.
After:
It plays once per gate (Trigger)

Before:
Gate inputs would cause looping if held high.
After: Any looping will need to be done with external patching.

Does that make sense????

I'll post more as time permits.
BananaPlug
I think triggers is easier to use than the previous gate/repeat idea.

Would it be possible to have a separate Done pulse output for each of the two samples?

If one or more pulses arrive after playback has started, will they be ignored (better I think) or will the sample play again as soon as it gets to the end? The benefit of not having "pending" triggers is that each time it plays it's doing it on cue.
dude
would it be possible to compare what similarities and differences this device shares with the modcan cv recorder? despite all info in this thread i am still having a lot of trouble understanding what this thing will be able to do. or maybe it is still under development to the point that a comprehensive feature set or list of possible uses is out of the question?
dslocum
BananaPlug wrote:
I think triggers is easier to use than the previous gate/repeat idea.

Would it be possible to have a separate Done pulse output for each of the two samples?

If one or more pulses arrive after playback has started, will they be ignored (better I think) or will the sample play again as soon as it gets to the end? The benefit of not having "pending" triggers is that each time it plays it's doing it on cue.


Excellent observations, and pretty much the same conclusion I came to after my recent "trial by demo fire". Sometimes things sound "engineering" good until you really need to make some practical demos - then - "OMG, what was I thinking" very frustrating

I'll be adding a Done output for each Bank per your suggestion, the two Gate inputs will now ignore any inputs while playing, and a couple other minor implications will be rearranged. I love the flexibility of CPU based logic for this reason.

Thanks for the input.
dslocum
dude wrote:
would it be possible to compare what similarities and differences this device shares with the modcan cv recorder? despite all info in this thread i am still having a lot of trouble understanding what this thing will be able to do. or maybe it is still under development to the point that a comprehensive feature set or list of possible uses is out of the question?


Dude,

You put me one the spot, but no problem applause and here's my stuff...

Yeah, I'm kind of trolling for ideas and feedback. BananaPlug just gave me a couple cool suggestions, and I'll be changing-up my thinking on this module shortly.

RE: Comparing the Modcan CV Recorder to our SampleCorder....
While it's a bit premature to do so, I think I can honestly state that these two products are simply not competative. Meaning that I can't possibly compete with Modcan's superb DSP based, multi channel design based on 4 channel cost and performance. While I don't own one, that Modcan unit is an EXCELLENT value! If you need 4 channel audio AND CV recording, please consider buying one. Shoot, I'd buy one if it was MU and not white!!

BUT... If you're in need of an MU audio only analog solution with 2 record/play banks at a fraction of the price, then maybe the SSL unit might be right for you.

Please stay tuned....... This is fun!
dude
cool, staying tuned. the main diff is the basis of being used for audio where bruces is geared toward cv. perfect way to keep it simple for simple folk such as myself. thanks!
dslocum
...That is the question.

Based on the input you've all given (thanks!), once a Bank is triggered, the new firmware can go one of two directions.

1) If a trigger (gate) input remains HIGH, it will loop when done.
2) If a trigger (gate) input remains HIGH, it will NOT loop (retrigger) when done.

In the case of 1), it's more like a gate which some of you said is not useful (I agree). In the case of 2), it's really a trigger / one-shot (which I tend to think makes more sense musically.

Thoughts please.

EDIT: After looking back at this thread, I think I already answered my own question. Triggers! But thoughts still welcome.
ritchiedrums
screaming goo yo screaming goo yo Any Updates?? Mr. Green
dslocum
ritchiedrums wrote:
screaming goo yo screaming goo yo Any Updates?? Mr. Green


Actually, yes. I have an announcement!!!

Jean-Jacques Perrey has officially endorsed the SampleCorder - Signature on the module and all !!! applause Rockin' Banana! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!

I'm still finalizing a couple things before going into production so it's still a few weeks away.

Stay tuned.....
analogsteve
dslocum wrote:
Jean-Jacques Perrey has officially endorsed the SampleCorder - Signature on the module and all !!! applause Rockin' Banana! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!


That's pretty cool!
bwhittington
So . . . a lot has been announced and produced while this module has been lingering on the back burner. Is it still going to see the light of day? Particularly with the addition of the pitch cv in, I'm still eagerly awaiting it.

I kind of imagine this being a module that would delight my nephews the next time I force them to play with my synth. (I know you must be hoping that people use your modules to compose masterpieces, but amusing elementary age kids is the best I can do!)

Cheers,
Brian
dslocum
bwhittington wrote:
So . . . a lot has been announced and produced while this module has been lingering on the back burner. Is it still going to see the light of day? Particularly with the addition of the pitch cv in, I'm still eagerly awaiting it.

I kind of imagine this being a module that would delight my nephews the next time I force them to play with my synth. (I know you must be hoping that people use your modules to compose masterpieces, but amusing elementary age kids is the best I can do!)

Cheers,
Brian


I was kind of wondering who would be first to scold me for taking too long for some things. d'oh! meh

The SampleCorder is alive and well, waiting for some switches that should have been here a month ago (tomorrow, I hope), and some final firmware tweeks. Once I'm comfortable with those, I'll be ordering the PCB run. The panels are already in from the vendor and they look GREAT with JJ's signature.

Take heart, it's coming. Thanks for the patience folks. Not much long now I hope. I've got a lot of time invested in this, so selling one or two would be most welcome. very frustrating oops
Scot Solida
Any news on this little feller? I've built a simple sample/player/recorder/ looper for my system, but this one looks like it'd be much nicer...
dslocum
Just to avoid any misunderstandings on what this little fellow REALLY is all about...

1) It is NOT a looper
2) It is NOT Hi-Fi, but it IS way better than 8 bit
3) It IS a pain in the ass to record a sample "properly"
4) There is NO wave editing capability
5) The sample MUST play to the end
6) Two saplmes can NOT play at the same time
7) It is lots of fun

Frankly, I would have given up on this project LONG AGO if I didn't have soooo much bloody time and energy spent on making this stupid speech recorder chip do something that it was never intended to do. Yet I have received wonderful encouragement from Dana Countryman & Jean-Jacques to complete it. And so you have it - or will shortly.

My production crew (read "wife-slave") has been working on the PCB stuffing and I hope to make the first few available in about 2 weeks time. Recently, our regular day gigs have seriously hampered both of our available time to create modular madness. Please PLEASE, forgive us.

I've decided that there will only be 25 JJP SampleCorder units produced. PERIOD.

My "sample" unit (SAMPLE), one each for Jean-Jacques (SN 0001) and Dana (SN 0002), and the rest for you folks, leaving only 22 to go around. It will be priced a bit higher than some of our other modules because...

1) There's lots of wiring to the front panel involved (couldn't help that)
2) It's a LIMITED EDITION
3) It's a COLLECTOR'S ITEM (yeah right)
4) It has Jean-Jacques endorsement. (YEAH!)
5) I doubt I'll even sell out of these 25 units. My loss, your gain.

Seriously though, I hope you guys LOVE the JJP SampleCorder !!!!

Cheers,

Doug
bwhittington
Oh, so these are coming up fairly quickly! I want one. Have you finalized on the price? Any preorder stuff?

Maybe you shouldn't be so down on its prospects. I think it sounds fun.

dslocum wrote:
"wife-slave"


Now that really sounds fun!

Cheers,
Brian
Ockeghem
Wow!
jawdrop
mecanikill
Eagerly awaiting for mine to arrive. This will be on my live show rig setup for sure I can only imagine the mangling I can do live zapping some insane samples from my ESX into it and destroying it with my modular setup. Oh the possibilities...
dslocum
Hey guys.

It turns out we have one last JJP SampleCorder available. It's been sitting on my bench awaiting minor troubleshooting, but got put aside because I wanted to concentrate on getting DDVCO's out the door.

PM me. First $265.00 + S&H gets it!
fac
Wow. *THE* last one? As in there won't be any more? How many did you make?
dslocum
Sorry Folks. It has been spoken for.

No "current" plans for another run. Sorry.
Putte
No more Samplecorder, ever? And I just got the money for it!
Putte
Seven years later, almost to the day, and I´ve just tried my new Samplecorder for the first time. So far, I´ve only tried sampling a percussive sound, which turned out to be somewhat tricky. Pushing the Start button at the right time, I mean.

I wonder about Record level, though. I used 8 to 10, but didn´t get much sound out of it. I had to turn the knobs on the Q108 around a lot more than I´m used to.
dslocum
Hi,

Sorry - Yeah, in retrospect, that volume issue was an oversight.

If your not able work around it, I'd be happy to make things right for you if you send it back.

Doug
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