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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Finally! Tyme Stretching
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> The Harvestman  
Author Finally! Tyme Stretching
GrobbingThistle
Ever since I got my TS I've been trying to figure a good way to get time stretching/granular effects out of it. Setting the loop points really close together and then sweeping them around the sample with a multed cv always sounds really horrible and clicky and I'd pretty much given up until the other day when I plugged a low audio range pulse wave into the direction control input. Viola! The rest of the patch description is copy+pasted from the soundcloud write-up:

"TS is having its playback direction controlled by a pulse wave from the Bubblesound uLFO. This is the most effective way I have found to achieve time-stretching effects with the TS. Varying the pulse width controls the speed at which the TS scrubs back and forth through the sample. Around the 3 and a half minute mark, a few of the circuit bends on the Sound of Thunder expansion panel are engaged. Only 3 modules used: Tyme Sefari, uLFO and the envelope follower on the Doepfer A-119 Ext. Input. Enjoy???"

http://soundcloud.com/america-reads/dontmindifido

Just thought I'd share, as I haven't seen anyone else mention this.
Bricks
we're not worthy we're not worthy woah MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING woah nanners

I always had the same experience trying to dial in good granular work

Man. I'm posting this in the "Euro or Serge" thread of the moment.
Johnisfaster
sounds really fuckin awesome. I just seriously wish the TS had some sort of click remover to smooth it all out. It's prone to all sorts of crackles and while that can be cool it personally drove me crazy.

That and I wish there was a variable bit depth 8-16bit. And a sample bank memory smile
deastman
Very interesting! I wish I could give it a try right now, but I'm heading off to work, so I'll have to file that one away for later. Nice discovery there...
Popski
Johnisfaster wrote:
sounds really fuckin awesome. I just seriously wish the TS had some sort of click remover to smooth it all out. It's prone to all sorts of crackles and while that can be cool it personally drove me crazy.



+1
giorgio
trippy shit dude
also: awesome
cluster
wow. very awesome. never had my hands on a TS and i didnt think it would be my thing, but this is compelling. I love how distorted it gets around 3:36
ignatius
MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING we're not worthy we're not worthy SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo screaming goo yo applause

awesome in so many ways!
suboptimal
Fuck yeah!
tj
genius. screaming goo yo
SquidInSquidInk
Very nice. I'll have to try this out ASAP. I think the key to unlocking the Tyme Sefari is to stop thinking of it as a delay or a looper.
GrobbingThistle
SquidInSquidInk wrote:
Very nice. I'll have to try this out ASAP. I think the key to unlocking the Tyme Sefari is to stop thinking of it as a delay or a looper.


I agree -- your demos were one of the deciding factors in my finally plonking down the money for one.

I get a lot of really interesting results from applying audio-rate CVs to the play, record and direction inputs. You can hear some really nice ring mod-esque effects in the clip I posted above.
Navs
Insane nuts Great choice of sample!
amsonx
Awesone,really great we're not worthy
futuresoundsystems
I have one of these coming my way in the post. Hells to the yeah grin
EATyourGUITAR
the clicking is a side affect of the dc jump up or down in 0 time. one way to combat this is setup a sidechain of the audio and pass it through a slew limiter. then use a A-134 to crossfade between the slewed audio and the dry. then you just need to figure out how to make a CV signal that only fades where the pops would be.

from this
___|¯¯¯|___|¯¯¯|___|à ‚¯Â¯Â¯|___|¯¯¯|

to this
___^___^___^___^___^___^___^ < run this to the CV in on A134

faster LFO's require faster VCA's of course. its all happening very fast. and the two CV's have to be perfectly in phase.

cheers!
READYdot
Did a small try of this, but came up with something else:
http://soundcloud.com/readydot/tyme
No clicks ^^almost.
The Tyme is THE shit!
Popski
READYdot wrote:
Did a small try of this, but came up with something else:
http://soundcloud.com/readydot/tyme
No clicks ^^almost.
The Tyme is THE shit!

also awesome!!!

I'm going to give this a whirl tonight..
Johnisfaster
READYdot wrote:
Did a small try of this, but came up with something else:
http://soundcloud.com/readydot/tyme
No clicks ^^almost.
The Tyme is THE shit!


I couldn't quite hear anything in there that sounded like the safari to me.. hmmm.....
READYdot
Haha! See! That's the genius about Tyme Sefari! Kicks in at exactly 1.16. Second break I turn down the sample rate. Clean and soft!
Another grain shifty example coming up.
READYdot
Here is a more obvious example.
http://soundcloud.com/readydot/tyme2
I prefer posting my patch examples as some basic "song", rather than only the patch.
Oldstench
READYdot wrote:
Here is a more obvious example.
http://soundcloud.com/readydot/tyme2
I prefer posting my patch examples as some basic "song", rather than only the patch.


Very reminiscent of Rpeg on EP7. This is a good thing smile
criticalmonkey
GrobbingThistle
can you explain the patch a bit more - what's the a119 doing
i had a great time with just the playback direction part - but didn't read the envelope follower part
not sure how you patched and tweaked it -

thanks for the tip -
READYdot
Oldstench wrote:
READYdot wrote:
Here is a more obvious example.
http://soundcloud.com/readydot/tyme2
I prefer posting my patch examples as some basic "song", rather than only the patch.


Very reminiscent of Rpeg on EP7. This is a good thing smile


Thanks for the huge compliment!
Popski
tried this tonight and it is nowhere near as clean as GrobbingThristle's demo... gonna sleep and try it again in the morning.. I currently can't quite wrap my mind around what I'm doing.
GrobbingThistle
Popski wrote:
tried this tonight and it is nowhere near as clean as GrobbingThristle's demo... gonna sleep and try it again in the morning.. I currently can't quite wrap my mind around what I'm doing.


you're basically going two steps forward one step backwards in tiny increments through the sample. doesn't cause any waveform discontinuities so you don't get the typical popping sounds those cause. if you think of it as moving x steps forward through the sample and then y steps back, x is the portion of the pulse wave that is positive and y is the portion that is negative. i was controlling the speed at which the sample played by subtly adjusting the pulse width. capisce?
Popski
I felt like I had drank 2 bottles of Nyquil at 3am.. I don't know what I was doing wrong last night but it is rollin' now. Very cool patch idea.

http://soundcloud.com/poppaneedsanap/acidtyme1
Johnisfaster
Popski wrote:
I felt like I had drank 2 bottles of Nyquil at 3am.. I don't know what I was doing wrong last night but it is rollin' now. Very cool patch idea.

http://soundcloud.com/poppaneedsanap/acidtyme1


didn't work... :(
EATyourGUITAR
i think thats cool how you go forward and backward but what if you start with a saw, now you have a mixed saw/reverse saw. I have a guess that is why your getting all these other artifacts, phasing, PWM sound etc. thats why i posted the patch example that goes forward only with no clicks. you just have to tweak it. it all works in theory.
lionelfischer
how is the 119 being used?
EMP3
I feel aurally raped. lol
Exuviae
This has been a pretty amazing score IMO. The original poster really stumbled onto a gem and I, for one, thank them for sharing!!!!!

Still experimenting with it, but here some things I have found:

Most audio rate stuff will make it do something - PWM isn't necessary to get the direction jack to make the sample dance...HOWEVER - to get that exact sounding literal time stretch sound, then yes, PWM seems to be the key...but by all means, experiment with different audio sources and changing their pitch - I have had lots of fun trying different things. This goes for PWM, too - not only do you want to try PWMing the Direction jack, but you also should try CVing the pitch of the PW on whatever VCO/LFO you are using.

Another thing I found that kind of bums me out is that this whole deal is really only achievable when you have a sample stored in the buffer and have RECORD TURNED OFF. I tend to enjoy leaving the record on at all times so that the buffer content constantly updates, but if you do this, the time strech doesn't seem to work as well or be as obvious. Perhaps I have overlooked a detail or something when trying this, but so far it hasn't yielded very good results.

But, trust me, when you have a sample saved and looping in the buffer, this trick works, works well, and really opens up the module to even more sonic awesomeness! I can only imagine this sounding/working even better with the upgrade.

So, for those of you who dig granular stuff, this new technique is def. the ticket. Follow the OPs instructions on Soundcloud and enjoy!
Johnisfaster
The funny thing is is when I had the tyme sefari for a short while I stumbed upon this trick and didn't think it was anything extraordinary. I was like "oh cool, time stretching.. but those damn crackles!! agh!"
Exuviae
I don't seem to notice all that much in the way of crackles when doing the Tyme Stretch myself.
revtor
sweet... always cool to find new veins to mine.
Johnisfaster
Exuviae wrote:
I don't seem to notice all that much in the way of crackles when doing the Tyme Stretch myself.


That's the thing they aren't really a big deal but if they bother you then they bother you a lot it seems. Looks like there are work around but I'm gonna hold out for something more eligant.
lionelfischer
would like to know what the 119 was used for in the OP's patch
Junk Rhythm
lionelfischer wrote:
would really like to know what the 119 was used for in the OP's patch


The A-119 was most likely used to raise the signal level of the Homer Simpson sample to modular signal levels.
GrobbingThistle
lionelfischer wrote:
john what is the elegant thing your holding out for? the harvestman granular thing or something else?

just tried this patch tonight with the AFG instead of the bubblesound uLfo and it was amazing.

would really like to know what the 119 was used for in the OP's patch


Oh, sorry, didn't see your question.

Towards the end of the recording when things get a little more hectic, I was using the envelope follower out of the A-119 to control the PWM on my ULFO -- just to animate the sound a little and free up my hand to play with the S.O.T. switches. I also used it to bring the homer sample up to modular levels.
suboptimal
This technique is dope as hell. Had a lot of fun with it last night. It's forcing me to finally get a handle on how to acccurately record a loop (it's easy to miss the beginning of the loop for some reason).
Johnisfaster
suboptimal wrote:
This technique is dope as hell. Had a lot of fun with it last night. It's forcing me to finally get a handle on how to acccurately record a loop (it's easy to miss the beginning of the loop for some reason).


sync a flip flop dude wink
Johnisfaster
lionelfischer wrote:
john what is the elegant thing your holding out for? the harvestman granular thing or something else?

just tried this patch tonight with the AFG instead of the bubblesound uLfo and it was amazing.

would really like to know what the 119 was used for in the OP's patch


something with smoothing would be great. a sample bank memory would be even more great. I like 8bit but I'd like the option of 16 bit. And if I move the start point past the end point I'd like the sample to reverse not glitch out. The Tyme Sefari was cool but it just wasnt for me.
suboptimal
Johnisfaster wrote:
sync a flip flop dude wink


*touches self*

What's the signal path? Use the 119 to derive an envelope which fires the flip flop?

It's amazing how many problems the flip flop can solve.
boramx
the "sq 2" out of the uncle osc might be a good modulator for the time stretch too, instead of pwm.
Exuviae
boramx wrote:
the "sq 2" out of the uncle osc might be a good modulator for the time stretch too, instead of pwm.


The PWM is really the key to varying the pitch/stretch.

Like I said before, most audio sources will make it do something, but the actual stretch effect that most people are familiar with seems only achieveable with PWM. The Uncle, sadly has a fixed Square - no PWM :-(

However, one way I found to cheat this is to run your wave through a channel on the Maths are vary the rise or fall, which seems to create a pseudo-pwm on any waveform you put through it.
stk
Finally got around to trying this today, fucking fantastic.

..I love how I always seem to find a way to make $000's worth of modular gear sound like a smoking pile of broken electronics zombie
suboptimal
stk wrote:
..I love how I always seem to find a way to make $000's worth of modular gear sound like a magically smoking pile of broken electronics zombie


SlayerBadger!
bar|none
Just threw my Time Safari + Sounds of Thunder up for sale. Get it while it's hot.
HeWhoWantsJeans
Exuviae wrote:

However, one way I found to cheat this is to run your wave through a channel on the Maths are vary the rise or fall, which seems to create a pseudo-pwm on any waveform you put through it.

Ooh. Shit hot. I'll have to try that out - thanks B!
lionelfischer
...
Johnisfaster
I'm still slightly confused on why there are clicks and pops when doing this, if the direction is changing then there should be no wave discontinuity at all, no?
Johnisfaster
EATyourGUITAR wrote:
the clicking is a side affect of the dc jump up or down in 0 time.


I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by this, the dc (which is controlling direction) jumping up or down in 0 time is causing a pop? Why? and if that's whats causing the pop couldn't I just run my ulfo square through a filter so that it doesn't jump in 0 time?

I'm determined to solve this cracking popping issue as I now have a Tyme Sefari coming to me to give it a second try.
Bricks
FWIW I still find it hard to fire up my Tyme Sefari without thinking

DONNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTTMMMNNNNNDDDDIFIIFIFIFIIFFFFIDODODOODOOOOOOOOOO
Johnisfaster
Aw you fucker, now thats gonna happen to me every time!
Cybananna
insane! absolutely incredible! applause we're not worthy
bryantcheramie
Very informative demo. TY
giorgio
bump for awesomeness
nrdvrgr
Great bump Giorgio, we need some TS action in the current storm of Phonogene-propaganda thumbs up
dr. jacoby
man, if i didn't already have a ts/asot, this would certainly have convinced me to pick one up, stat! thumbs up
suboptimal
The Phonogene and Tyme Sefari are totally different animals. The answer, obviously, is still "Both."
giorgio
I was lucky to have this and some other great examples of different ways to use the tyme sefari when I was trying to figure out how the hell to use it last night.

my main issue was that I wasn't keeping "play" on when i was trying to record. Still learning this module, but had a ton of fun with it, an ELF LFO and a choices thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
anthonybisset
I don't own a safari, so I'm not tracking this patch 100% but isn't it possible to take this trick into re-pitching territory by varying the playback rate at the same time as the controlling the direction with PWM?
Junk Rhythm
suboptimal wrote:
The Phonogene and Tyme Sefari are totally different animals. The answer, obviously, is still "Both."


Agreed. w00t
ThinLazy
From the Harvestman twitter feed

harvestman Scott Jaeger
Double Andore is at the factory, with some Polivoks filters. Now working on the new Tyme Sefari.

25 May
nativestate
ThinLazy wrote:
From the Harvestman twitter feed

harvestman Scott Jaeger
Double Andore is at the factory, with some Polivoks filters. Now working on the new Tyme Sefari.

25 May


Win!!!!
ThinLazy
I know, awesome sauce, right. This is thing I am waiting on.

I'm a kind of over the everything in 8 bit excitment and am
looking forward to the new tyme sefari with 16 bit sampling.
Things sound significantly better in 16 bit than 8 bit
(the jump from from 16 bit to 32 bit is more subtle).

Then add a little toggle switch to down sample to from 16 to 8 bit
if I am feeling the saucy 80's vibe or want staircased CVs.

Anyway, let me know if you guys hear more.
-TL
giorgio
original tyme sefari makes me want both once the new once comes out.

I have been doing the granular tyme stretching and freaking thing with the MATHS EOR output on the direction input of the TS, doin some scrubbing and such, haven't even used the CV ins on the MATHS for this patch yet yet, gonna get an LFO on the rates tonight, for some wackiness. recordings are usually made, I just haven't heard the ones with the TS yet.

on another note, i have found that the tyme sefari is an instrument onto itself, to which the rest of my travel 104hp synth is now gravitating around. I'm ditching the 808 kick drum module (samples seem to be doing the trick live) and swapping out some other stuff, gonna try to shoehorn a VCA pair, maybe another midi interface or 119, as I gotta get some more control over this from my MPC. 2 channels of a flame clockwork would totally kick ass, but maybe a whole clockwork is in order, since that actually exists
nanners nanners nanners nanners nanners nanners nanners
stk
ThinLazy wrote:

I'm a kind of over the everything in 8 bit excitment and am
looking forward to the new tyme sefari with 16 bit sampling.
Things sound significantly better in 16 bit than 8 bit
(the jump from from 16 bit to 32 bit is more subtle).


This! w00t

Actually, I'd be happy if he skipped the new TS altogether and went straight to the High Resolution Granular Processor SlayerBadger! ambulance
Vcoadsr
Really nice patch and sample!

I've been playing with my TS tonight so will check out your patch tomorrow and see what I can get going.
If the new TS is going to be at 16 bit that's a much needed improvement for me as I want to run samples from Ableton into the TS and back out and not have a really obvious degredation in sound quality.

Wonder when the new TS will be ready?
Vcoadsr
So I tried this technique out tonight and it really sounds great.

I used the animated pulse from one of my AFGs and then started to modulated the different parts of the pulse to change the direction in the TS. Got interesting results.

One thing I cannot seem to resolve with the tyme sefari is the hiss in the sample/buffer. I can never seem to get a clean recording of the input to start manipulating. I've always assumed it was related to the 8 bit nature of the recording. Does anyone know how to reduce this to a bare minimum? And will the new tyme sefari not have this background hiss as bad?
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