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dougcl
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Opinions on this layout

Post by dougcl » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:42 pm

Hi folks, any opinions on this layout? The lower left is a four channel DIY midi2cv. The lower right will be a miniwave (temporarily at least). The two A-199's in the top right should work even though they are overlapped here (DIY case).

Going on the shelf to make room for this configuration:
AS EMS Synthi Filter
A-143 Quad ADSR
A-128
Plan B M13
A-135 VCMIX

Image

It's tough to make these choices, and I'm not that happy with the CV all at the bottom. The whole rig seems audio heavy to me. Still need to figure out where to put a DLFO too.

Anyway, I'm bored and the board is slow.

Doug

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felix
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Post by felix » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:23 pm

Very nice!

I might recommend replacing two of those A138 mixers with a plan b M14 voltage processor. I use mine a lot, both for audio and CV, and the cross fader is a rad addition (and can be used as a linear vca!) And, you can of course use it as a voltage inverter in a pinch.

It also has Min/Max outputs for each mixer half, so you could even consider loosing the A172 as well. The only thing is that it's 18HP, so you'd end up with an extra 2HP for that row, so you'd have to then shuffle things around. A minor detail.

Excellent choices!
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A Dingleberry Monstrosity
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Post by A Dingleberry Monstrosity » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:35 pm

your 2 spring reverbs are fighting.

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consumed
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Post by consumed » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:55 pm

so far it looks good. i would encourage you to scatter your mixers though.

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:59 pm

Is this what you already have?
Are you just trying to think of the optimum way to organize it?

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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:08 pm

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:Is this what you already have?
Are you just trying to think of the optimum way to organize it?
Yep, I am making room for the QMMG and Cwejman ADSR. I'm getting the M15 out of the reverb rack, and trying to get the A-188-1 into the audio area. This is a huge reshuffling of everything. But if you want to complain or advise about the system, it's pieces, the post, whatever, that's fine too. I'm just thinking through it, and I thought the image was kind of neat looking. Plus we're all addicts here, I think.

The triad of A-138s serve two purposes. To allow mixing of VCO/audio, and also to build a sequencer from the A-152 and/or 160/161 if desired. The A-188-1/noise/VCA/filter/ADSR stuff on the top row forms a Karplus synthesizer, but also makes some of that stuff available at the top.

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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:15 pm

felix wrote:Very nice!

I might recommend replacing two of those A138 mixers with a plan b M14 voltage processor. I use mine a lot, both for audio and CV, and the cross fader is a rad addition (and can be used as a linear vca!) And, you can of course use it as a voltage inverter in a pinch.

It also has Min/Max outputs for each mixer half, so you could even consider loosing the A172 as well. The only thing is that it's 18HP, so you'd end up with an extra 2HP for that row, so you'd have to then shuffle things around. A minor detail.

Excellent choices!
Great idea worth further consideration. Thanks!

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:17 pm

What about moving the AP-1 higher so it's closer to the PLL?

Took me a little while to see the PLL...I was like "When did he get rid of something that cool?!"

Rearranging is such a hassle, but so much fun at the same time. :D

I like how my thinking process gets biased depending on what modules are near each other, I've got them by manufacturer, and the rest (and the ones that won't fit in the suitcases) are arranged by logic/timing, a sort of waveform workshop area, and external processing. I think there is an optimum size for me, and I'm teetering on the edge now. Only thing I'm still lacking is a real sequencer that I can use microtonally, the Revolution is cool, but not quite there. Do you got an external sequencer or are all your sequence made from envelopes, LFOs and stuff like that?

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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:28 pm

Yeah, I really want to get the AP-1 in there more, because it can be used to boost MMF-1 output (as someone here suggested). This really is all about getting the stuff where you need it so nothing gets left out. I build sequencers out of the A-160/161, the mixers and the A-152. Also the midi2cv in the bottom left can be used with an external sequencer (although I never do it). The A-143-3 is pretty handy for generating S&H clock, and audio rate modulation. It really needs to be up in the middle. Everything needs to be in the middle! BTW your system was a lot like mine at one point, I think, although now you have gone into the beyond! I think my limit is 18U, hopefully in two 9U racks like Scaff. This seems like the optimal setup.

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:46 pm

Have you thought about a more square or triangle configuration for your racks instead of a tall rack? Might help get things closer together, but you'll double the footprint.

I went nuts last week and doubled my M10s...now I have 4. It's so much fun patching them in a crazy envelope/trigger loop. I've started thinking about getting rid of the 143-1 since I could come close to patching it now.

I'd love to hear how crazy your rig cross patched with mine would sound. :eek: :lol:

I wonder how a PLL tracking another PLL sounds...

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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:11 am

dkcg wrote:I wonder how a PLL tracking another PLL sounds...
Yeah that could be interesting. Have you used the PLL as a CV source yet? I had the COMP out going to the A-162 trigger delay and then on to the M13 CV. Then run some twisted PLL based audio through the M13 and things get pretty weird. As you can see, the damn plucked sounds videos of yours have pushed me to the Cwejman ADSR and QMMG. Hopefully I'll have that covered now. Unfortunately the M13 got squeezed out. Need to build the miniwave which has been sitting here for a couple of weeks. You'r right a pyramid might be better. Of course that means a complete rearranging again :)

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Post by Roycie Roller » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:21 am

The PLL sounds like an intriguing module. Does anyone have any samples of it?

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Post by consumed » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:55 am

Roycie Roller wrote:The PLL sounds like an intriguing module. Does anyone have any samples of it?
yeah ross did some recordings with it and posted it here.

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Post by consumed » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:00 am

dougcl wrote:It really needs to be up in the middle. Everything needs to be in the middle!
haha so true! modules on the edges feel marginalized.
ive been spending lots of quality time reorg'ing with the modularplanner lately.
i initially started doing module layout from the center outward, but knowing that i wanted:

lfos and oscillators on the left/lower left corner
preamps (119 and effects insert modules) in the lower right
processing modules on the bottom middle (freq shift, ring mod and bbd)
lowpass gates, vcas and mixer(s) smack in the middle
joystick somewhere on the edge/up in the right corner

all subject to change of course. ill snap a pic someday when its nearly 'there'.

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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:19 am

consumed wrote:
lfos and oscillators on the left/lower left corner
preamps (119 and effects insert modules) in the lower right
processing modules on the bottom middle (freq shift, ring mod and bbd)
lowpass gates, vcas and mixer(s) smack in the middle
joystick somewhere on the edge/up in the right corner

all subject to change of course. ill snap a pic someday when its nearly 'there'.
I had some ideas about creating a CV engine in the middle with audio all around it, but then the audio is spread out on the edges. So I tried in general to place all modules with minimal (or less likely) CV input on the edges. There is an entry area in the lower left (AP-1 and midi), and an exit area in the upper right. In general the audio was above and the CV was below. It used to be about 50/50 audio CV, but the audio section is getting bigger at the expense of the CV. I added a third rack and I figured it could either go between or on either end, but now that fell apart as it needed to be a more dedicated space. I'm finding myself with an accumulation of filters and I'm not sure I need them. I don't really get all the fuss about filters. I've come full circle and I think the A-121 low pass is my favorite. I can't believe I said that. The VCEQ-3 is my favorite audio module, and it makes filters seem kind of boring by comparison.

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Post by Kent » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:24 am

I think that it would be much better at my house!

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Post by Audio Resistance » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:33 am

Someone else who loves the Cwejman! I have the PH-4, ATT-4 ,and the SPH-2 getting delivered today. Do you do alot of patches with the PH-4 modulating the pan or volume on the MXS-4? That is what my immediate plan is after work and then I will play with the Phaser.

I hope AH gets that AI-2 audio interface in soon, I am getting a Monster case and it would be nice to have balanced outs running across the room to my mixer.

That is interesting that you like the EQ module so much, I have not really paid much attention to that or the forward comps because I have good outboard. I guess because cv ability is not the first thing that pops in my head when I am looking at modules ( still new at this ) but eq sweeps would be sweet. I am still in the mindset of the audio destruction phase.

Great setup,
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Post by Soy Sos » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:05 am

I dunno Doug it's OK and everything. I think you need more stuff. :hihi:

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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:29 am

Audio Resistance wrote:Someone else who loves the Cwejman! I have the PH-4, ATT-4 ,and the SPH-2 getting delivered today. Do you do alot of patches with the PH-4 modulating the pan or volume on the MXS-4? That is what my immediate plan is after work and then I will play with the Phaser.
Having that PH-4 in the middle of all your Cwejman stuff is great because it has output level and offset controls, so all your unattenuated Cwejman inputs now have a convenient modulator. I have used the PH-4 to pan the MX-4S, although I find that I don't get around to panning much. Recently someone showed me that if you have two similar audio signals you can split them to left and right, and I'm doing this a lot now (but that's not really panning). I recently thought of putting a comparator on pitch CV and panning to the right on high notes, and to the left on low notes, etc. Another idea is to use the A-160 clock divider to send every other note to the right so you get a ping pong. In general I use the PH-4 to send CV everywhere and then modulate the PH-4 itself, or I use it in conjunction with the VCLFO and slew limiter to create a chaotic clock, or because it's 1v/oct, you can use it for FM modulation of VCOs. Mine was a little out of calibration for this (unusual for Cwejman). I am surprised how much I like the PH-4 and how much it has added to the system.

Make sure and get some samples of the SPH. I'm curious about it and the FSH, but I'm not sure I would use them. And of course there's no place to put them :)

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:11 pm

so how *is* that going to be set up in the studio? 2*9u, right?

I find ergonomics to be the biggest hurdle of the big systems - a class you're certainly entering here... :)

Andreas

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Post by dkcg » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:24 pm

Audio Resistance wrote:Someone else who loves the Cwejman! I have the PH-4, ATT-4 ,and the SPH-2 getting delivered today. Do you do alot of patches with the PH-4 modulating the pan or volume on the MXS-4? That is what my immediate plan is after work and then I will play with the Phaser.

I hope AH gets that AI-2 audio interface in soon, I am getting a Monster case and it would be nice to have balanced outs running across the room to my mixer.

That is interesting that you like the EQ module so much, I have not really paid much attention to that or the forward comps because I have good outboard. I guess because cv ability is not the first thing that pops in my head when I am looking at modules ( still new at this ) but eq sweeps would be sweet. I am still in the mindset of the audio destruction phase.

Great setup,
Rob
The PH-4 is one of my favorite modulators! I use it all the time to pan and swirl audio with the MX-4S, but you can do many things with it, I've used it to drive the ADSRs' gates, filter freq (which is awesome if you got a few filters), anything you want some offset waveforms that stay in relative time or want to sweep 4 things at once.

The PH-4 is what started me thinking about getting my favorite modules in pairs (or pairs of pairs like my M10s). I also have the Doepfer 143-9, but find myself using the PH-4 way more often because of the CV offset and I'm trying to streamline my patches more lately and stop being such a pasta chef with the cables. One day, I'll get another PH-4...

Kinda cool hearing an envelope make swirling pans widen. :)
Stereo synthesis is awesome.

I got the SPH and the FSH, Doug. I used the SPH more often, very cool sounding phaser, but a phaser seems to always sound like a phaser, even if it is a really nice stereo one. I'd say it's less of a must have and more of a really nice spice that can be overdone. Similar with the FSH, but it does some amazing things, I'd get the stereo ringmod before the FSH, it's a lot more useful as a stereo autopanner/ringmod/modulation source.

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Post by dougcl » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:22 pm

wetterberg wrote:so how *is* that going to be set up in the studio? 2*9u, right?

I find ergonomics to be the biggest hurdle of the big systems - a class you're certainly entering here... :)

Andreas
Currently it is three 6U subracks that I just drag around the house. I think two 9U portables would be best. I have a total of six 6U subracks laying around now (three spare ie. ebay obsession), and buying two more 9U's seems crazy.
dkcg wrote:]I got the SPH and the FSH, Doug. I used the SPH more often, very cool sounding phaser, but a phaser seems to always sound like a phaser, even if it is a really nice stereo one. I'd say it's less of a must have and more of a really nice spice that can be overdone. Similar with the FSH, but it does some amazing things, I'd get the stereo ringmod before the FSH, it's a lot more useful as a stereo autopanner/ringmod/modulation source.
Good to know. Between the two, I would think the FSH would have more applications. Interesting that you mention the ring mod. I haven't really considered it. As I recall it's one that has the claimed low THD. Maybe this is the next one to get.

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A Dingleberry Monstrosity
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Post by A Dingleberry Monstrosity » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:16 pm

YOUR SPRING REVERBS ARE STILL FIGHTING EACH OTHER!!!

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Post by Jari Jokinen » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:27 pm

felix wrote:I might recommend replacing two of those A138 mixers with a plan b M14 voltage processor. I use mine a lot, both for audio and CV, and the cross fader is a rad addition (and can be used as a linear vca!) And, you can of course use it as a voltage inverter in a pinch.

It also has Min/Max outputs for each mixer half, so you could even consider loosing the A172 as well. The only thing is that it's 18HP, so you'd end up with an extra 2HP for that row, so you'd have to then shuffle things around. A minor detail.
Perhaps worth of mentioning regarding M14:
- VC XFADE input accepts only positive voltage.
- MIN outputs only negative voltage and MAX outputs only positive voltage. In other words, the outputs are clipped at 0V. That is not the case with A-172.

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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:31 pm

A Dingleberry Monstrosity wrote:YOUR SPRING REVERBS ARE STILL FIGHTING EACH OTHER!!!
Fixed in v2.0 shipping probably January 2008.

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