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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

FrequenSteiner Hum
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author FrequenSteiner Hum
jonkull
My FrequenSteiner hums when I turn the frequency knob past the 10 o'clock position (I guess this would be the 4th line). This happens with all other knobs (CVs, resonance, input) zeroed with or without an audio source going into the filter. It's still audible when there is an audio source connected and makes the output sound muddy.

It almost sounds like ground loop hum but I only hear it through the FrequenSteiner. It's not present in any other module, synth, mixer or effect I have in my studio. I had checked with the place I bought it from (still waiting to hear from Livewire) and was told that this may be a normal part of it's character. So I want to know if any other FrequenSteiner owner has a filter that hums.

The following example is the FrequenSteiner being swept from the 10 o'clock position to the 3 o'clock position and back. There is no audio source connected and all knobs are at their zero position.
consumed
start by playing with any of your other oscillators in your modular to help determine what might be the source of that hum.
jonkull
I went through other modules last night plugging them directly into my audio interface one by one. Nothing else hums. I disconnected everything from the busses and only left the Freq and there was still hum. I moved the Freq around different positions on the bus (thought maybe it was too close to power supply/cables) and there is still hum. I swapped out cables...hum.

If a low frequency hum is part of the FrequenSteiner's 'charm' that's fine but if there's something wrong with it I'd like to get it repaired/replaced.
pristak
My Freq hummed a lot. It was too close to the power supply, even though I didn't think it was that close. I moved it as far from the supply as I could and it stopped.
pristak
Ok, you posted at the same time I did. Guess you tried that already. I'm out of ideas.
jonkull
Yeah, power supply was one of the first things I thought of.
dougcl
Jon, does the pitch of the hum ever change? Can you get it to change by fiddling with your other modules? Do you have an O-scope?
jonkull
No...the pitch is constant.

That's what had made me originally think it was ground loop hum. Is it possible for one piece of equipment to experience ground loop hum but other equipment using the same power conditioner, power supply and wall sockets to have clean signals?

I have a software o-scope I use in Logic.
dougcl
Not sure. It may be that you have some 60Hz noise on the case, but your bus ground is okay. A particular module might (due to a flaw or otherwise) pick up the case noise. Perhaps someone more experienced than I can chime in. Anyway, it would be interesting to know the freq of the hum, and to poke around for evidence of it on the bus or on the case.
Muff Wiggler
my (frac) Frequensteiner does the same time.

At first I thought it WAS a ground loop issue - which caused tons of exploration and troubleshooting - and resulted in me connecting all my ground busses (which solved other problems, as described here but didn't solve the Frequensteiner one....)

So, I'm convinced it's the way the circuit works, and not a ground issue, because all mine are gone now. The key for me is the fact that you have to lower all the input gain controls, which means you are hearing the 'base noise' of the curcuit. The moment you add an external signal with any gain to it, the noisefloor of the Frequensteiner is pretty so low down you can't tell anyway...

at least that's my experience. I don't think there's anything wrong with it - I stopped worrying about mine and now just enjoy that sweet, sweet HP mode (plus the rest of it sounds great too.....)
jonkull
I guess I'll have to play around with this stuff when I get home from work tonight.
noisesource
having worked @ analoguehaven and tested a lot of those filters there was indeed a hum in a majority but not all of them. mine does not have that feature but yet it gets far nastier that most of the other frequensteiners i compared it to.

BUT... mine will never sound as good as the Frac version. those 3 extra volts make ALL the difference. smile
revmutt
I just got a used one and although I really only tested in for functionality I did notice it really needs to be mounted into the case, otherwise it does make a bit of noise.
kidtesla
The plot thickens...
I have six frequenSteiners (some mounted near the power supply) and I've never noticed the hum....hmmm
felix
Yeah same here (already chatted with jon in a PM). I only have one Frequensteiner but it has no hum. It definitely has a higher noise floor, one that I can hear if heavily compressed, but there is definitely no hum.
dougcl
No hum here either.
jonkull
noisesource wrote:
having worked @ analoguehaven and tested a lot of those filters there was indeed a hum in a majority but not all of them. mine does not have that feature but yet it gets far nastier that most of the other frequensteiners i compared it to.


Interesting. I guess I just got a noisy filter.

So was this considered 'analog charm' or a QC issue?
jonkull
Muff Wiggler wrote:
my (frac) Frequensteiner does the same time.

At first I thought it WAS a ground loop issue - which caused tons of exploration and troubleshooting - and resulted in me connecting all my ground busses (which solved other problems, as described here but didn't solve the Frequensteiner one....)

So, I'm convinced it's the way the circuit works, and not a ground issue, because all mine are gone now. The key for me is the fact that you have to lower all the input gain controls, which means you are hearing the 'base noise' of the curcuit. The moment you add an external signal with any gain to it, the noisefloor of the Frequensteiner is pretty so low down you can't tell anyway...

at least that's my experience. I don't think there's anything wrong with it - I stopped worrying about mine and now just enjoy that sweet, sweet HP mode (plus the rest of it sounds great too.....)


Yeah, I've been going nuts trying to figure this out. I've disconnected, reconnected, rearranged and removed modules several times now but the hum is always there. I guess at this point I'll just live with it. Livewire hasn't responded to me yet but I imagine they'll just tell me it's normal.
BananaPlug
jonkul:
Quote:
So was this considered 'analog charm' or a QC issue?


Classic! hihi
Montag
BananaPlug wrote:
jonkul:
Quote:
So was this considered 'analog charm' or a QC issue?


Classic! hihi


Quoted (again) for truth. Seems to me like both.
dkcg
I've got 2 frequensteiners, they both have a resonant hum noise similar to yours, but not until after high noon on the frequency dial and when I really crank the levels, probably loud enough to blow my ears off if I passed a signal through them.

I don't mind...that's what VCAs are for. I say it's charm since they both sound about the same. grin
Cat-A-Tonic
Just out of curiosity, is it any single component that makes each Frequensteiner unit sound unique?
Like the deviation in vactrol response in the M13 LPGs?
Perhaps the mere deviation of resistor values is enough to push that particular circuit into slightly different sonic characters...
hmmm.....
felix
I don't recall seeing any vactrols, nor do I recall seeing big vintage-looking capacitors like on the Dual Cyclotron. I do remember see a lot of diodes.

So this hum has something to do with input volume? I usually have mine around 2 o'clock. But jon's clip is without any input source, it's just the filter humming. That seems incredible to me that there is that much of a deviation from unit to unit like that. His hums like crazy and mine has a very acceptable (more than acceptable for me) noise floor for such a piece of equipment.
dkcg
felix wrote:
I don't recall seeing any vactrols, nor do I recall seeing big vintage-looking capacitors like on the Dual Cyclotron. I do remember see a lot of diodes.

So this hum has something to do with input volume? I usually have mine around 2 o'clock. But jon's clip is without any input source, it's just the filter humming. That seems incredible to me that there is that much of a deviation from unit to unit like that. His hums like crazy and mine has a very acceptable (more than acceptable for me) noise floor for such a piece of equipment.


I could get a similar "hum" sound, but I'd have to push my levels all the way up, add some compression to get the level up even higher, I figure by then, any audio that would be going through the filter would have blown out my ears. If this were a computer program, I'd say something's not right, but being a resonant colorful filter, I don't mind...

But I like imperfect sine waves too. razz
felix
dkcg wrote:
I could get a similar "hum" sound, but I'd have to push my levels all the way up, add some compression to get the level up even higher, I figure by then, any audio that would be going through the filter would have blown out my ears.

Yeah that's pretty much exactly what I get. It's only if I really crank up the output (or use heavy compression / distortion / gain) that I can even hear the noise floor, and even there it isn't really a hum, but, well, noise.
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