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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

To Serge or not to Serge...
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author To Serge or not to Serge...
felix
Actually, this really isn't a question on wether or not to buy Serge...I just couldn't think of a better title.

I've been thinking about it and reading over as much info as I can find (the "serge spreadsheet" from Carbon111's site is very helpful), but I'm having a little trouble deciding some things.

Now, I don't plan on buying everything at once, but one does like to imagine the full system of course.

I definitely want the "Blue Control" aka CV2


And eventually the "Blue Voice" (although I might just do fine with a "euro" voice for a while wink).


What I'm having trouble deciding on, is the 3rd panel. I really like the TKB, not only because it's a sequencer, but it has a very tactile interface for dynamically altering the sequencer's behavior - the touch plates.



However, I definitely want the Pulse Divider and Boolean Logic modules, which can be had either with the Gator (M-Class) or the Sequencer Panel.


So, I'm a bit at odds - one has the tactile interface that I really like. The other has the Pulse Divider and Logic, and also has dual sequencers, which would be perfect for clocking from the Pulse Divider+Logic module.

I know what you're thinking, just get the TKB and then get the Gator + SQP Sequencer or Sequencer-A M-Class modules. Well, that starts to add costs now doesn't it, and part of the goal is to have a smaller (in size) system that is highly multi-functional.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts. Both directly on the question as well as "but dude, you wont have blah blah blah" comments.

cheers.
dkcg
How about going with the M series and the TKB?

That way you can add it piecemeal, like a euro system?

That Blue control looks so sweet tho...

I'd love to hear what a euro system sounds like with serve CVs controlling and shaping the euro signals.

Damn that video demo that come out recently of the creature and sequencer! lol
felix
I knew you'd be the first to catch this thread! hihi

dkcg wrote:
How about going with the M series and the TKB?

Well, because to me the shop panels actually seem the most economical, unless you really want something that's only available in an M-Class.

For example, the M-Class M-odules average around $1550 each. Plus $525 for the boat and PSU. So it's about $3600 for the set, which is the same size and average price as a shop panel, BUT with actually fewer modules, because you have space taken up by the power distribution in the middle.

The shop panels are also a very nice collection of different modules.

Plus, I can't find any combination of M-odules that I really like together, or at least a combination that doesn't require buying more sets of M-odules than I would shop panels.

The M-odules also have quite a few duplicate modules. For example, the Control Generator, Creature, and Mayhem are all cool M-odules, but each one has a Smooth/Stepped Generator module. For the amount of functionality that just one of those SSG modules has, one feels like plenty for me.

However, there are some M-odules which are unique and share no functionality at all with any of the shop panels. The matrix mixer, SQP Sequencer (it has 6, rather than 4 stages).

And of course, new M-odules keep rolling out. Because of this, I plan and wait and see what's on the horizon and also why I wouldn't buy everything at once (well, that, and I wouldn't be able to afford it lol).
dkcg
I was doing some thinking on the throne, aka taking a shit, and I think I figured out why Serge is so attractive. Euro feels like doing word problems, Serge (I imagine) feels like trigonometry and calculus. Straight to the heart of things, even more basic than euro modules since it seems like the patching is much more involved, planned, and like high science meets high art. make sense in some weird way?

Not to knock euro at all. Just seems like you have to look beyond labels to see what's really happening. I wish there was an LFO rate scope w/o using a computer, like a fast plotter to see what the hells going on when the scope can't show me and my head can't quite "see" it...

I can't afford a serge right now anyways, so no worries for me. Maybe after taxtime. Just dreams for now. Although I spotted a dream module on Cynthia's website today, an odd number divider, and a prime number divider. I was just asking about them too....modcan....grumble grumble. d'oh!
kidtesla
And don't forget the case you'll have to build for it Mr. Green .......
I know,I know, 30,000 comedians out of work and I'm trying to be funny meh
.....please don't hate me felix. Drums!
felix
kidtesla wrote:
And don't forget the case you'll have to build fot it Mr. Green .......
I know,I know, 30,000 comedians out of work and I'm trying to be funny meh
.....please don't hate me felix. Drums!

Hahaha, oh, I learned my lesson there. I'd get someone else to make one, or just put them in a rack.


dkcg wrote:
I was doing some thinking on the throne, aka taking a shit, and I think I figured out why Serge is so attractive. Euro feels like doing word problems, Serge (I imagine) feels like trigonometry and calculus. Straight to the heart of things, even more basic than euro modules since it seems like the patching is much more involved, planned, and like high science meets high art. make sense in some weird way?

Yeah, it makes sense to me because I don't know how to do trigonometry or calculus. It seems like something I would need to grow and learn more by studying. I'm drawn to it for a number of reasons, chief among them being how multifunctional each module is. It seems that every module was designed so that it not only functions at all possible configurations, many of the configurations serve specific functions. The Universal Slope Generator being the ultimate in that regard. There's hardly any basic synthesis functions that it cannot do. Not having to patch multiples, as trivial as that may seem, is also a big "turn on". The sound quality is fantastic too, but I'm not dissatisfied with Euro, so that's pretty much a wash.

There's also something to be said for modules that are designed to be used together. For example, my Livewire modules don't always play nice with my Plan B modules without some significant attenuation. Like try using the Dual Cyclotron to modulate the Time Base of the M10 without an attenuator. Speaking of attenuators, the majority VC parameter on the Serge modules have input attenuators, and most of them being bipolar inverting ones.

And, I think there's something to be said for relying on someone else's expertise to design an instrument. To some extent, with more "modular" formats, you are the instrument designer. You are picking the functions and the number of them. I doubt I'm not alone in buying modules that I turn out not to find so useful.[/quote]
MrDys
How many parts of the sequencer panels are already covered by your existing euro rig? Would you sell off that portion of euro modules in favor of the panel?

Were it me, I would definitely go for the TKB. (I'm already trying to figure out when I can afford one.) There's nothing else out there quite like it.

Many sections of the other sequencer panels are already produced in euro (and may already be modules that you have). If you're still feeling the urge for the Sequencer panel, you really have to ask yourself if you're after functionality or if you're just "completing the set". (And I understand the whole bit about synth designers creating complete instruments, but for me at least, that argument is not strong enough to convince me to drop thousands of dollars in one fell swoop.)
mono-poly
I would take this panel instead of the blue control.

felix
MrDys wrote:
Would you sell off that portion of euro modules in favor of the panel?

Some portion of the Euro system would go yes, but I wouldn't say I'd necessary sell the same function in euro just for the function in Serge.

MrDys wrote:
Were it me, I would definitely go for the TKB. (I'm already trying to figure out when I can afford one.) There's nothing else out there quite like it.

I have that feeling as well. I also remember that the Gator M-odule has the ÷N Module, which allows voltage controlled divisions of 1 through 31.

MrDys wrote:
Many sections of the other sequencer panels are already produced in euro (and may already be modules that you have). If you're still feeling the urge for the Sequencer panel, you really have to ask yourself if you're after functionality or if you're just "completing the set". (And I understand the whole bit about synth designers creating complete instruments, but for me at least, that argument is not strong enough to convince me to drop thousands of dollars in one fell swoop.)

I no longer have the A155+154 anymore (the machinedrum handles all the traditional sequencing duties) but the thought of two sequencers, each running at a different, yet rhythmically related, was always very interesting to me. However, I don't *need* that, it always just sounded like fun. I can still do that with the MachineDrum + TKB though. I wasn't really lusting to get the sequencer panel, it just happened to satisfy two desires in the Serge - the pulse divider and logic modules, and sequencer. I was having a hard time weighing that over the touchplate control of the TKB.
felix
mono-poly wrote:
I would take this panel instead of the blue control.

I'm very interested in why you say that. Is it personal preference, or do you find these functions more useful than those in the blue control?

The reasons that I found the blue control more attractive than this panel are:
-I have no ADSRs (all ADs) in my current system and I rarely find myself wishing I had one
-The Dual Voltage processor and Quadrature oscillator are both modules that I would see myself using frequently, particularly the DVP
-The Quantizer, while I would find it useful, it not necessary for most of the stuff I do. I have a quantizer in euro, which I was planning to keep to fill this need if it was necessary.
-I don't think I would use 2 ASRs. I have the Plan B euro one and like it, but I do not end up using it regularly.
-The Dual USG by far seems to be the most functionally dense and useful module in the Serge lineup, it made sense to me to have two.
parasitk
I'm definitely with you on that Blue Control. Damn that is a powerful panel! I personally would go with a Soup Kitchen 2 instead of a Blue Voice, but that's just for things it offers that I'd really want.

As for your dilemma, honestly I'd go for the TKB and worry about logic/divider some other way. There's just no comparison to me. You could even get a Metalbox logic/divider module bananafied to have that functionality. It's general purpose, IMO. The TKB is unique to Serge! SlayerBadger!
bartlebooth
I think the tkb is so unique and fits so well in the overall serge design its just too hard to pass up, even if the sequencer has other modules (like boolean logic and pulse divider) you like. You could possibly add a gator later and get those functions, but where else can you such a tactile, interactive interface to your whole system?
felix
parasitk wrote:
I'm definitely with you on that Blue Control. Damn that is a powerful panel! I personally would go with a Soup Kitchen 2 instead of a Blue Voice, but that's just for things it offers that I'd really want.

Yeah that's a good one too. It's very likely that I would continue to use my AFGs and other stuff for the "voice". That's sort of what I meant by the "euro voice" comment in the first post. The VCOs, Waveshapers, Filters, etc all seem extremely cool, but they don't get my heart rate up like the control voltage generators. And as I mentioned, in terms of sound quality, I'm quite happy with what I've got in Euro currently, so I'm not looking to really replace that.

parasitk wrote:
As for your dilemma, honestly I'd go for the TKB and worry about logic/divider some other way. There's just no comparison to me. You could even get a Metalbox logic/divider module bananafied to have that functionality. It's general purpose, IMO. The TKB is unique to Serge! SlayerBadger!
Yeah, you, MrDys, and bartlebooth make very good points for the TKB. It's unique for sure. I forgot about the metalbox module... I did also forget that the Gator also has the ÷N Comp module which the Sequencer panel does not.
parasitk
felix wrote:
Yeah that's a good one too. It's very likely that I would continue to use my AFGs and other stuff for the "voice". That's sort of what I meant by the "euro voice" comment in the first post. The VCOs, Waveshapers, Filters, etc all seem extremely cool, but they don't get my heart rate up like the control voltage generators. And as I mentioned, in terms of sound quality, I'm quite happy with what I've got in Euro currently, so I'm not looking to really replace that.


Gotcha. I'd be augmenting this with Modcan "voice" stuff (VCDO, DVDO, etc), and the waveshapers and folders are really attractive to me.

But reading some more, I really want that Variable Q filter (triggered "damped sine waves" FTW), which is not on the Soup 2. In fact no panel has both the waveshapers and folders, along with the variable q. Maybe I'd go M-Class to round out the Blue Control. Hmmm.
felix
Yeah, "ringing" the Variable Q VCF sounds really cool (showed off briefly in that Creature demo). I'd love to hear that through the wave multipliers.
parasitk
I wrote:
In fact no panel has both the waveshapers and folders, along with the variable q. Maybe I'd go M-Class to round out the Blue Control. Hmmm.


I guess a Creature and Wave Processor would do it, which would also offer the TimeGen Osc, which seems pretty cool. I'd love a M-odule with a VCO (any) and Variable Q Filter together. meh

felix wrote:
Yeah, "ringing" the Variable Q VCF sounds really cool (showed off briefly in that Creature demo). I'd love to hear that through the wave multipliers.


Oh fuck yeah! That's what I was thinking as well! w00t
mono-poly
felix wrote:

The reasons that I found the blue control more attractive than this panel are:
-I have no ADSRs (all ADs) in my current system and I rarely find myself wishing I had one

The ADSR is usefull you can't retrigger most envelopes before they at the end off their cycle.

-The Dual Voltage processor and Quadrature oscillator are both modules that I would see myself using frequently, particularly the DVP

You can use the VCFQ as quadratur to

-The Quantizer, while I would find it useful, it not necessary for most of the stuff I do. I have a quantizer in euro, which I was planning to keep to fill this need if it was necessary.

Okay i love to have stuff in one format.


-I don't think I would use 2 ASRs. I have the Plan B euro one and like it, but I do not end up using it regularly.

OK

-The Dual USG by far seems to be the most functionally dense and useful module in the Serge lineup, it made sense to me to have two.
Jari Jokinen
...
felix
mono-poly wrote:
The ADSR is usefull you can't retrigger most envelopes before they at the end off their cycle.

Actually, I rather prefer the lack of retriggering. I like the rhythmic variations you can get with a fast clock signal and changing the time duration of the EG.

mono-poly wrote:
You can use the VCFQ as quadratur to

Oh yeah, when it's self oscillating? For some reason, I thought filter didn't self-oscillate, but maybe I'm thinking of one of the other Serge filters.

felix wrote:
-The Quantizer, while I would find it useful, it not necessary for most of the stuff I do. I have a quantizer in euro, which I was planning to keep to fill this need if it was necessary.

mono-poly wrote:
Okay i love to have stuff in one format.

I definitely do too, but moving from Euro to Serge is an expensive transition, so I'm not against leaving features on one format. I'm also not against banana-fying my euro modules if necessary. I just don't want to have to do it to *lots* of them. It looks like the Doepfer ones should relatively easy (drilling the cliff jack opening bigger will do it with the least amount of effort).
parasitk
*sigh*

http://www.iparasite.com/modular/sergepanels.png

+

http://www.iparasite.com/modular/modcanrack.png

*sigh*
mono-poly
VCFQ does self oscilate outputs are 12db but the bandpass is 6db
Roycie Roller
parasitk wrote:
*sigh*

http://www.iparasite.com/modular/sergepanels.png

+

http://www.iparasite.com/modular/modcanrack.png

*sigh*


I also think Modcan A & Serge would be the way to go. The digital Modcan modules & analog Serge.... we're not worthy
parasitk
The only thing it was missing for me were low pass gates, which is why I'm saving a couple 292c boards for this mythical future Modcan A of mine. smile
Roycie Roller
You could go all out on the 292c with 3 audio ins & 3 cv ins (that's what i'll do).
Actually, i was going through the Modcan group's photos- did you see the banana-fied Modcan B Sequencer? That looked VERY nice. Maybe it's possible to order B modules with banana jacks?
dkcg
parasitk wrote:
The only thing it was missing for me were low pass gates, which is why I'm saving a couple 292c boards for this mythical future Modcan A of mine. smile


Oh you got a Modcan in the future too huh?!

I just got started in Modcan 10 years from now. grin

I take it Modcan and Serge both work on 1vt/oct?
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