Is 3 Filters a crowd?

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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mosaiclive
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Is 3 Filters a crowd?

Post by mosaiclive » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:43 pm

I really appreciate everyone who gave me input on my proposed modular. For those who don't know, I've got a Moog Voyager/Fooger setup that I want to expand with a small modular. I've also got an Oberkorn sequencer.

I planned on getting the Polivoks, M12, and Frequensteiner filters in my modular but wonder, if in addition to my Moog LPF, if that's a little overkill. In particular, the Frequensteiner takes up a fair amount of space in a small modular. Maybe there is another smaller filter people could recommend to complement the other two or maybe just 2 filters plus the Moog is enough. I'd love to be able to free up some additional space. Man, it's fun to plan these things but hard to decide on everything!

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:50 pm

The M12 is great in bandpass mode, I would definitely keep that in there. I also like the Polivoks and the frequensteiner, they definitely don't sound like moog filters...

If you've got the space, the more colorful your palette is, the more options you have. The frequensteiner sounds more similar to the M12 than the polivoks sounds like anything else. And I like the width control in the M12 and find myself wishing the frequensteiner had a width for the bandpass all the time.

What kinds of sounds are you going after? Smooth, harsh, gritty, diodey, vactrolly?

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:32 pm

Honestly (though having experience with neither),
I would rather have the Doepfer A-101-1 Vactrol Multitype Filter than the Livewire Frequensteiner.

They are both the same size 16hp,
and they are both based on different filters designed by Nyle A. Steiner.

The Elby Designs (CGS) Synthacon filter looks pretty similar to the Doepfer version as well (and is the least expensive of the 3 + it is only 14hp)

The Doepfer uses vactrols whereas the Elby does not.
The Doepfer also has VC resonance, several extra attenuated VC inputs, and 2 different outputs.

The main strength (and uniqueness) of the Elby & Doepfer filters is the LP, BP, HP inputs which allow the filter to be used as a frequency dependent interpolating scanner.

You can send different sound sources into them and combine the timbral aspects of each signal to make one new hybridized sound.
This seems to me like a form of synthesis that you just don't get elsewhere. :love: :drunkhomer:

I imagine many people will disagree however, as the Frequensteiner's character is apparently quite popular.
Although it is not as functionally unique as the other two, it may or may not be more unique/desirable when used in the standard filter fashion.

...just my 2 yen

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felix
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Post by felix » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:43 pm

I have 4 filters
Frequensteiner
Polivoks
Doepfer A105 SSM LP
Doepfer A1061 Xtreme (MS-20ish)

By far, the Frequensteiner is the one I use the most, with the Polivoks in 2nd and the others trailing behind.

I'd like to get a M12, but would very likely end up getting rid of the 2 Doepfer since they are rarely used.

I'm not even sure why I ended up with so many filters (I also have a Frostwave resonantor)...I'm not one of those filter collector guys who needs all sorts of different filter sounds. I won't argue that a filter doesn't give a sound it's distinct character, but the sound of a instrument is not defined by its filter.
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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:52 pm

felix wrote:I have 4 filters
Frequensteiner
Polivoks
Doepfer A105 SSM LP
Doepfer A1061 Xtreme (MS-20ish)

By far, the Frequensteiner is the one I use the most, with the Polivoks in 2nd and the others trailing behind.

I'd like to get a M12, but would very likely end up getting rid of the 2 Doepfer since they are rarely used.

I'm not even sure why I ended up with so many filters (I also have a Frostwave resonantor)...I'm not one of those filter collector guys who needs all sorts of different filter sounds. I won't argue that a filter doesn't give a sound it's distinct character, but the sound of a instrument is not defined by its filter.
I think you would like the M12 Felix. It really brings out the ring in the QMMG and the M13. Sounds similar to the frequensteiner, but more control since you have width control of the bandpass. I rarely use the lowpass on the M12, it's a little weak unless you send in the same oscillator to one of the CV as an FM source. But bandpass...damn, it will go down and get more resonant bass than the lowpass mode.

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Post by dougcl » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:16 pm

dkcg wrote: I think you would like the M12 Felix.
Is the cutoff 1v/oct or thereabouts? I find myself passing up the Poli and Frequensteiner for the MMF-1 to get tracking. Here I am tempted to get another filter even though I have too many filters. Is there some reason I would get the M12 rather than use one of the QMMG channels in LP mode?

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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:27 pm

dougcl wrote:
dkcg wrote: I think you would like the M12 Felix.
Is the cutoff 1v/oct or thereabouts? I find myself passing up the Poli and Frequensteiner for the MMF-1 to get tracking. Here I am tempted to get another filter even though I have too many filters. Is there some reason I would get the M12 rather than use one of the QMMG channels in LP mode?
The width control on the beautiful bandpass. :)

You can get it nice n narrow, or wide where it starts acting more like a lowpass or high pass. No self-resonation, but very tame and smooth like a baby's ass. It's all about the bandpass for the M12 with me.

Lowpass I end up using the cwejmans or the polivoks, got no diode ladders here...

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Post by mosaiclive » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:40 pm

Hmm, I hadn't looked at the A-101-1 much. That does seem to offer some nice features over the Frequensteiner. I just wish either of these was 4Hp smaller. It seems like you always want just a little more space. I was hoping to have a third filter color but one that would allow me to put something else I really want in also.

As far as what kind of sound I'm looking for, variety would be the best answer. I'm not trying to do one specific type of sound or genre of music.

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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:45 pm

dougcl wrote:Is the cutoff 1v/oct or thereabouts? I find myself passing up the Poli and Frequensteiner for the MMF-1 to get tracking.
I forgot to answer, I'm not sure, it's hard to tell since it doesn't self oscillate, but I would say probably not. In bandpass the resonance feels more log or exp than linear.

I'd stick with the MMF-1 if you want a trackable filter since I know that will.

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Post by dougcl » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:57 pm

dkcg wrote: I forgot to answer, I'm not sure, it's hard to tell since it doesn't self oscillate, but I would say probably not. In bandpass the resonance feels more log or exp than linear.

I'd stick with the MMF-1 if you want a trackable filter since I know that will.
Should be able to tell by narrowing that band down to almost nothing, and run a sine through it. Run a cv to both the VCO and the cutoff. If you start losing notes, then it's not tracking. This is in fact why it's good to have (albeit with something other than a sine, typically). I suppose I can ask the folks at noisebug. My guess is that it does track.

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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:19 pm

dougcl wrote:
dkcg wrote: I forgot to answer, I'm not sure, it's hard to tell since it doesn't self oscillate, but I would say probably not. In bandpass the resonance feels more log or exp than linear.

I'd stick with the MMF-1 if you want a trackable filter since I know that will.
Should be able to tell by narrowing that band down to almost nothing, and run a sine through it. Run a cv to both the VCO and the cutoff. If you start losing notes, then it's not tracking. This is in fact why it's good to have (albeit with something other than a sine, typically). I suppose I can ask the folks at noisebug. My guess is that it does track.
I'll let you know later tonight when I get home.

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Post by dkcg » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:17 pm

dougcl wrote:
dkcg wrote: I forgot to answer, I'm not sure, it's hard to tell since it doesn't self oscillate, but I would say probably not. In bandpass the resonance feels more log or exp than linear.

I'd stick with the MMF-1 if you want a trackable filter since I know that will.
Should be able to tell by narrowing that band down to almost nothing, and run a sine through it. Run a cv to both the VCO and the cutoff. If you start losing notes, then it's not tracking. This is in fact why it's good to have (albeit with something other than a sine, typically). I suppose I can ask the folks at noisebug. My guess is that it does track.
I had no dropouts that I could detect by ear.

but i'm half deef from my college "lets see how loud 100W is" days. what? could you repeat that. i couldn't hear you. :)

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Post by dougcl » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:25 pm

Thanks for looking into that.

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Post by mosaiclive » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:41 pm

I'm wondering if anyone has any more ideas for a filter to complement the Polivoks and M12 that is not as big as the Frequensteiner. I know that's a great filter but, like everyone else, I'm trying to fit as much into my rack as possible! A filter that was 12Hp(or less) would be perfect. I should probably just stick with the Freq. but I'm trying for the perfect setup! :)

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Post by felix » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:46 pm

Doepfer actually has a wide offering of filters, most are 8HP.

The WASP filter might be a good one, but it's fairly aggressive from what I hear. There's also the SSM 105, I like it, but it's a little "vanilla" for my tastes and, while not the same, might not be far enough away from the Moog sound for you. I think there's a CEM based filter too...

http://www.analoguehaven.com/doepfer/modules/
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Post by elemental » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:23 pm

You might want to look at the Analogue Solutions SY02, MS20 copy.
I have the rack version Filtered Coffee, love its sound, been thinking about getting it in modular format for a while.

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Post by Kwote » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:40 pm

bottomline you can never have enough filters. each has their own flavor no matter how subtle.

i have been slowly coming around to adding a bunch of em to my DIY things to do list.
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Post by dkcg » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:45 pm

mosaiclive wrote:I'm wondering if anyone has any more ideas for a filter to complement the Polivoks and M12 that is not as big as the Frequensteiner. I know that's a great filter but, like everyone else, I'm trying to fit as much into my rack as possible! A filter that was 12Hp(or less) would be perfect. I should probably just stick with the Freq. but I'm trying for the perfect setup! :)
The Model 11 Evil Twin gets pretty nasty and screams at you like Satan. :D

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