Serge Maintenance Info

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

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BananaPlug
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Serge Maintenance Info

Post by BananaPlug » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:26 pm

Does anybody have a compendium of tune up info we could archive in a safe place? Things like 1V/O trimmers and VCA control bleed through trimmers. Anything like that.
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pickleinn
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Post by pickleinn » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:29 pm

From my web notes from various sources


Banana Jack Color Code
Black = AC-coupled (IN or OUT)
Blue = DC-coupled (IN or OUT)
Yellow = Trigger (IN)
Red = Gate (IN or OUT)
Grey = White Noise (OUT)
Purple = Pink Noise (OUT) or Sync (IN)

PSD vs Obelisk
the psd (power supply distribution) is for shop panels while the Obelisk is for m-odules. The obelisk contains a PSD like distribution board - but with only 4 connectors instead of 5.

Power Connector
The standard inter-connector used by STS is a Tyco Rectangular 4 pin Connector. The body and pins are sold separately.
Pin & Socket Connectors PLUG W/O EAR 4P inline is PN: 770078-1
Pin & Socket Connectors 24/18 AWG TN/BR SKT is PN: 770146-1
Pin & Socket Connectors RECPT 4P DETENT LOCK in-line is PN: 770075-1
Pin & Socket Connectors 24/18 AWG TIN/BRASS is PN: 770147-1
The PSD has the female connectors.

Pin 1 is at the point. Pin 4 is at the flat (for both male and female).
Pin 1 = Ground 1, Black
Pin 2 = -12V, White
Pin 3 = Ground 2, Green
Pin 4 = +12V, Red

STS also uses a 5 pin XLR connector for power distribution. Coming from the power supply (PS4 for example) is a 5 pin female XLR. It is intended to be plugged into a panel mount 5 pin male XLR connector which then terminates to a male Tyco Connector (for plugging in power to the PSD). I used an Aphenol panel mount 5 pin male XLR connector, PN: AC5MDZ for a replacement part and it worked fine.
Here is what my PS4 XLR connector pinout is (note, I am not sure if this is standard or not, i would assume it is, but I dont want to be responsible for plugging anything in backwards):
Pin 1 = +12V, Red
Pin 2 = Ground 1, black
Pin 3 = -12V, White
Pin 4 = Ground 2, green
Pin 5 = Not Connected

PS2a Specs
the PS2a is a line lump, laptop type power supply. It is manufactured by Jerome Industries (Elizabeth, NJ). Their part number appears to be MIKS20-14 and has "Serge Power Supply" written on it. It appears to be a switching type power supply and can be switched from 115VAC to 230VAC inputs
12V @ 350mA
-12V @ 350mA
Fuse Type (T). 250mA, 250V.

PS4 Specs
Inside of a custom case (LMB boxes LINK maybe?) is a condor linear power supply model HAA15-0.8-A+
Technical/Catalog Information for the HAA15-0.8-A+
Vendor - SL Power Electronics Manufacture of Condor/Ault Brands
Power (Watts) - 24W
Voltage Output - ±15V (for Serge Panels, it is set to +/-12V)
Voltage Input - 100, 120, 220, 240VAC
Power Supply Type - Linear, Regulated (Open Frame)
1st Output - +15 VDC @ 800mA (This number should be a bit higher at 12V)
2nd Output - -15 VDC @ 800mA (This number should be a bit higher at 12V)
Mounting Type - Chassis Mount
Size / Dimension - 6.5" L x 4" W x 1.62" H (165.1mm x 101.6mm x 41.2mm)
Operating Temperature - 0°C ~ 50°C
Efficiency - 55%
Applications - Commercial
Line Regulation - ±0.05%
Load Regulation - ±0.05%

It is wired to an on/off switch and on LED indicator (wired to the -15V rail). The output is a 5 pin XLR with the following pinout: (coming soon).

Serge First Aid
from various sources including: cebec on quadslope,

ICs/Opamps
LM3900N – Used in NTO, DTG, TWS, WMX and many older modules
CA3080AE – Used in PCO, NTO, WMX, SSG and old filters and VCAs.
CA3280AE – Used in ACPR, UAP, 2VCA, RING, QUO, WAD.
CA3046 – Used in NTO, PCO, WAD, PRNV, PHA and old UPAP & NEG.
CA3096 – Used in 2VCA, PRNV
CD45208E
LM711(?) – Used in NTO/PCO
Reticon SAD 1024 BBD - Rare. Used in WAD.

Common Opamps
LM324N – CV opamp
LF353 – FET opamp
NJM4559D – audio opamp
NE5532 – audio opamp
741 – opamp (NTO, SSG)

Common Transistors
NP4250s and 2N5089s are the common PNP and NPN.

Pots
16mm Alpha. 50K lin for CV and 50K log for audio

Wire
STS use Mogami for all internal wiring

Banana jacks
E.F. Johnson and 3.5mm and 1/4″ jacks are Switchcraft

Vactrols
the phasers (PHA and 2PHA) use VACTEC Vactrols

Other Info
Banana Cables
Pomona PVC Stacking cords on www.testpath.com

Hardware
The bolts that secure the panels to the boats are 6-32 bolts.

Knobs
Davis 1900H
clones of the knobs can be purchased at Small Bear Electronics. Multiple colors also available.

recommended power conditioner
DUET POWER CENTER

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bwhittington
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Post by bwhittington » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:36 pm

Wow, now this should definitely get stickied. Great post, Ryan!

Cheers,
Brian

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parasitk
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Post by parasitk » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:26 pm

Done. Let's just fill the thread with useful info!

I think b3nsf has some calibration info about the TKB...

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Post by daves » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:47 am

There is too much wrong info about the Serge going around. I didn't look at every detail, but for starters:

PS2a is NOT a switching supply, it is a semi-custom linear supply.
Banana jacks are NOT Johnson, they are a higher end jack with a perfectly circular metal insert, as opposed to the cheap squarish insert in Johnson jacks.

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nitro2k01
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Post by nitro2k01 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:51 am

daves wrote:Banana jacks are NOT Johnson, they are a higher end jack with a perfectly circular metal insert, as opposed to the cheap squarish insert in Johnson jacks.
Now, this turned out to be pretty difficult to research online, since there's someone called Jack Johnson who has made a song called Banana Pancakes.
:sadbanana: :ripbanana: :deadbanana:

(Ok, I lied. You can actually -pancakes -pancake to the search...)
Blawg <- Follow my DIY modular progress

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Post by daves » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:11 pm

HAHA!

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metasonix
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Post by metasonix » Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:02 pm

Just let me drop in a small warning:

Many of the ICs that Rex is still using in the classic Serge circuits are no longer in production. I suspect they will become very difficult to find in coming years, like the Curtis and SSM chips used in many popular synths. Most likely, Rex was smart enough to make quantity purchases for the near future. After that, who knows.

For example:

LM3900
LM711

All of these are still shown on the Intersil site, but are all marked "out of stock", with no information on future production.
I can't find any evidence that other firms, like ST or National, are still making them.
CA3080
CA3280
CA3046
CA3096

The SAD1024 BBD has been out of production for a long time. EG&G Reticon, the original maker, was bought by PerkinElmer in 2000 and subsequently disappeared. Ironically, PerkinElmer Optoelectronics is still making Vactrols---but not CCD chips. I routinely see people on guitar-pedal forums, begging to buy an SAD1024 for maintenance purposes. It is extremely scarce.

The situation on discontinued ICs is similar to what I've found about discontinued tubes--if an item was popular and found wide use in commercial and industrial electronics, old stock can be scraped up long after the factory is demolished. I can still buy thousands of arcane things like 19KG8s, presently being used in the R-54 Supermodule, because they were made in the millions for low-cost TV sets. However, unlike the 19KG8, with the end of production of a popular chip used in music gear, great uncertainty ensues. Look at what happened to the VF14 tube used in the U47 microphone. Or the 6386 used in the Fairchild 670 limiter--they became so scarce, JJ Electronic made a limited production run of them. Lucky 670 owners! (They sell for $120 in the US.....sorry, 670 owners...)

So, even though people love Serge products, it is quite possible that they will be costly and difficult to maintain in the near future.

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zthee
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Post by zthee » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:30 am

I don't think the LM711 goes in the NTO/PCO - It's normally a TL710?

Which is also out of production...
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Post by djs » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:45 pm

Is there a functional difference between the LM3900 and the LM3900N (which Mouser shows several thousand in stock)?
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Seracs
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Post by Seracs » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:26 pm

metasonix wrote:Just let me drop in a small warning:

Many of the ICs that Rex is still using in the classic Serge circuits are no longer in production. I suspect they will become very difficult to find in coming years, like the Curtis and SSM chips used in many popular synths. Most likely, Rex was smart enough to make quantity purchases for the near future. After that, who knows.

For example:

LM3900
LM711

All of these are still shown on the Intersil site, but are all marked "out of stock", with no information on future production.
I can't find any evidence that other firms, like ST or National, are still making them.
CA3080
CA3280
CA3046
CA3096

The SAD1024 BBD has been out of production for a long time. EG&G Reticon, the original maker, was bought by PerkinElmer in 2000 and subsequently disappeared. Ironically, PerkinElmer Optoelectronics is still making Vactrols---but not CCD chips. I routinely see people on guitar-pedal forums, begging to buy an SAD1024 for maintenance purposes. It is extremely scarce.

The situation on discontinued ICs is similar to what I've found about discontinued tubes--if an item was popular and found wide use in commercial and industrial electronics, old stock can be scraped up long after the factory is demolished. I can still buy thousands of arcane things like 19KG8s, presently being used in the R-54 Supermodule, because they were made in the millions for low-cost TV sets. However, unlike the 19KG8, with the end of production of a popular chip used in music gear, great uncertainty ensues. Look at what happened to the VF14 tube used in the U47 microphone. Or the 6386 used in the Fairchild 670 limiter--they became so scarce, JJ Electronic made a limited production run of them. Lucky 670 owners! (They sell for $120 in the US.....sorry, 670 owners...)

So, even though people love Serge products, it is quite possible that they will be costly and difficult to maintain in the near future.
Might ask about this in the future, but I'm sure he has something thought up as a solution.

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zthee
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Post by zthee » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:21 am

djs wrote:Is there a functional difference between the LM3900 and the LM3900N
No difference.
No PM's please! Send an e-mail - ttsh(a)thehumancomparator.net

Information regarding the Two Thousand Six Hundred DIY project - > http://www.thehumancomparator.net

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cebec
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Post by cebec » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:32 am

Seracs wrote:
metasonix wrote:Just let me drop in a small warning:

Many of the ICs that Rex is still using in the classic Serge circuits are no longer in production. I suspect they will become very difficult to find in coming years, like the Curtis and SSM chips used in many popular synths. Most likely, Rex was smart enough to make quantity purchases for the near future. After that, who knows.

For example:

LM3900
LM711

All of these are still shown on the Intersil site, but are all marked "out of stock", with no information on future production.
I can't find any evidence that other firms, like ST or National, are still making them.
CA3080
CA3280
CA3046
CA3096

The SAD1024 BBD has been out of production for a long time. EG&G Reticon, the original maker, was bought by PerkinElmer in 2000 and subsequently disappeared. Ironically, PerkinElmer Optoelectronics is still making Vactrols---but not CCD chips. I routinely see people on guitar-pedal forums, begging to buy an SAD1024 for maintenance purposes. It is extremely scarce.

The situation on discontinued ICs is similar to what I've found about discontinued tubes--if an item was popular and found wide use in commercial and industrial electronics, old stock can be scraped up long after the factory is demolished. I can still buy thousands of arcane things like 19KG8s, presently being used in the R-54 Supermodule, because they were made in the millions for low-cost TV sets. However, unlike the 19KG8, with the end of production of a popular chip used in music gear, great uncertainty ensues. Look at what happened to the VF14 tube used in the U47 microphone. Or the 6386 used in the Fairchild 670 limiter--they became so scarce, JJ Electronic made a limited production run of them. Lucky 670 owners! (They sell for $120 in the US.....sorry, 670 owners...)

So, even though people love Serge products, it is quite possible that they will be costly and difficult to maintain in the near future.
Might ask about this in the future, but I'm sure he has something thought up as a solution.
Yes, if you ask him, he says he has purchased enough to service any existing STS stuff.

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Seracs
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Post by Seracs » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:43 am

No problem then.

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Post by BananaPlug » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:03 am

Yes, if you ask him, he says he has purchased enough to service any existing STS stuff.
If you're making long term plans I wouldn't count on getting service done beyond the first year or so. You can accept some attrition, find a tech person (get references), or DIY (not a decision to take lightly). Having rare parts without sorting that out won't fix your panel.
(Sounds)--> :eek:
"It's an amazing thing, whatever it may be."

xart

Post by xart » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:46 am

I have seen Rex zez inventory on out of production chips.....we have no worries. He has us covered till long after our death! :tu:




cebec wrote:
Seracs wrote:
metasonix wrote:Just let me drop in a small warning:

Many of the ICs that Rex is still using in the classic Serge circuits are no longer in production. I suspect they will become very difficult to find in coming years, like the Curtis and SSM chips used in many popular synths. Most likely, Rex was smart enough to make quantity purchases for the near future. After that, who knows.

For example:

LM3900
LM711

All of these are still shown on the Intersil site, but are all marked "out of stock", with no information on future production.
I can't find any evidence that other firms, like ST or National, are still making them.
CA3080
CA3280
CA3046
CA3096

The SAD1024 BBD has been out of production for a long time. EG&G Reticon, the original maker, was bought by PerkinElmer in 2000 and subsequently disappeared. Ironically, PerkinElmer Optoelectronics is still making Vactrols---but not CCD chips. I routinely see people on guitar-pedal forums, begging to buy an SAD1024 for maintenance purposes. It is extremely scarce.

The situation on discontinued ICs is similar to what I've found about discontinued tubes--if an item was popular and found wide use in commercial and industrial electronics, old stock can be scraped up long after the factory is demolished. I can still buy thousands of arcane things like 19KG8s, presently being used in the R-54 Supermodule, because they were made in the millions for low-cost TV sets. However, unlike the 19KG8, with the end of production of a popular chip used in music gear, great uncertainty ensues. Look at what happened to the VF14 tube used in the U47 microphone. Or the 6386 used in the Fairchild 670 limiter--they became so scarce, JJ Electronic made a limited production run of them. Lucky 670 owners! (They sell for $120 in the US.....sorry, 670 owners...)

So, even though people love Serge products, it is quite possible that they will be costly and difficult to maintain in the near future.
Might ask about this in the future, but I'm sure he has something thought up as a solution.
Yes, if you ask him, he says he has purchased enough to service any existing STS stuff.

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cebec
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Post by cebec » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:57 am

BananaPlug wrote:
Yes, if you ask him, he says he has purchased enough to service any existing STS stuff.
If you're making long term plans I wouldn't count on getting service done beyond the first year or so. You can accept some attrition, find a tech person (get references), or DIY (not a decision to take lightly). Having rare parts without sorting that out won't fix your panel.
I'm not worried at all. He will repair any STS product in existence or yet to come and Kevin Braheny Fortune is handling all non-STS stuff. We're in good hands!

One of the reasons we pay big bucks for STS/Serge is so he has the buying power and clout to stock up on hard-to-find through-hole parts.

Additionally, when I compiled that list (posted above), it was based on a couple of Oakland STS panels and my discussions with a DIY'er very familiar with older (pre-STS) Serge. I know Rex has made adjustments and substitutions as he transitioned to Hartland and now the M-odules so some of that is going to be out of date, unfortunately.

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BananaPlug
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Post by BananaPlug » Mon May 23, 2011 10:51 am

rastko wrote:I am sorry if this is a double post but this is the first time I see this .

http://www.serge.synth.net/

thank you Ken Stone
Has kit instructions (for PCB to panel wiring) and manuals. The 1978 manual shows where the NTO/PCO 1V/O tracking pot is (bottom of PCB).
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emergencyofstate
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Post by emergencyofstate » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:15 pm

Anyone have any updated info on recommended power conditioners? It appears the Duet Power Center is discontinued.

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rdonker
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Post by rdonker » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:46 am

I'd like some info on tuning. Process and procedure.
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Post by hydrophilos » Sun May 20, 2012 10:57 pm

I just bought multiples of virtually every chip that was mentioned here (in terms of Serge modules) including the SAD1024 BBD on ebay...

Not sure how long that will last but right now everything seems available.

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Post by macumbista » Thu May 31, 2012 3:18 pm

First off, can't say thanks enough for all this. Really a resource.

Second off, does anybody have the pin-out for the 5-pin XLR connections on the PS4A/PS6A?

EDIT: Sorry, I'm blind, found it...

Thanks!
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Post by AntManBee » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:45 am

Pomona patch cords use the part# formula B-4-5 where the middle number is the length in inches and the end number is the colour (so this example is a 4" green cable) with the following colour codes.

0=black
1=brown
2=red
3=orange
4=yellow
5=green
6=blue
7=violet
8=grey
9=white

Available from Testpath & Mouser in the US and Mouser in the UK/EU.

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Post by AntManBee » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:29 am

Rack ear bolts are #8 / 32 TPI (which for those outside the USA is 8UNC as they have a US thread size).

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Post by Spridleyman » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:31 am

A couple of things:

Black banana sockets are not necessarily AC coupled. I think the original definition was black = bipolar (swings + and -) while blue = positive only (CV). But the rules are not firm - some CVs can go negative etc. Many black inputs are AC coupled, but most black outputs are not.

Examples of where this matters - the VCFQ can be used as a CV processor, the you can "hold" the QUO output at whatever voltage it's currently at, the bipolar output option on the DUSG works as an inverted envelope etc.

Second thing, many of the first generation modules require an additional 6v supply. This will only matter if you buy a pre 1980 panel. Originally there was an extra 6v regulator on the power supply, but later if systems only had one 6v module then a 6v regulator would be mounted somewhere in the panel. So, if you buy an early Serge and none of the VCAs work, check your power supply is suitable...



Steve

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