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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Suggestions on my next 3U...
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Suggestions on my next 3U...
jonkull
This is where my modular is at right now...



When I was planning my setup I based it on my fixed path synths...2 VCOs, 2 VCFs, 2 EGs, 2 LFOs, ring mod, S/H, Noise, VCA, mixer. Over the next few months I'd like to add another 3U of space with mostly VC modules - no filters or VCOs. I have a Dual Bissell on order so that will be my first module. I'm interested in the Model 28 Tap Clock and Model 17 3x Event timer. Other than that I'm not sure.

My original intent with this thing was noisy/drone stuff but I'd like to add some motion as well. I don't want a sequencer (or midi/cv interface). The problem is coming from a fixed path background I don't know enough about what's out there modular-wise to know what to look for. Clock dividers, PLLs, comparators, delays, switches, logic modules, etc... What's useful...what's not...

I know it's subjective but...what are your go-to modules for rhythmic and melodic patches and sounds that evolve? Do I simply need more LFOs and EGs or should I be looking at 'specialty' modules?
dkcg
jonkull wrote:

I know it's subjective but...what are your go-to modules for rhythmic and melodic patches and sounds that evolve? Do I simply need more LFOs and EGs or should I be looking at 'specialty' modules?


Looking good.

bread n butterwise, I would add another mixer, looks like you got only one, maybe one for audio and one for VC signals.

for timing, a Model10 and a Model13 almost always make it into my rhythmic patches. A doepfer 143-1 would give you a fancy LFO and 4 more AR generators, an makes some cool modulations. Or something like a logic gate or Model 14 could add more variation to what you have already. One more thing you might think about, LFOs with sync. I don't think you have any, that could add a lot of timing controllable modulations, which reminds me to, you might want to get a linear VCA for working with CVs. maybe replace the 131 for a 132-3 if space is an issue.

I've been using the ASys Divider, RS-280, a lot lately to make rhythms (only divisions or 2 tho, no odd numbers). Matter of fact, I got a second divider because I kept wanting to divide the divided signals more and more often. smile
neandrewthal
For a system of that size, I'd say you need at least 4 VCA's, maybe more for fading between all those fancy AFG outputs.

If you did that, you should still have plenty of room for some more essentials: dividers, logic, s&h. If going for droney noise stuff, I would also ditch the ADSR's for the quad complex envelope.(edit: dk beat me to that one we're not worthy )
dkcg
neandrewthal wrote:
For a system of that size, I'd say you need at least 4 VCA's, maybe more for fading between all those fancy AFG outputs.


That's exactly what I was thinking. the LFOs are kinda fixed path now, but a bipolar mixer (I would use my Model 14) would open up the path options more. Which when I thought about sync in an LFO. My only annoyance with the Dalek and Vulcan are a lack of sync, otherwise they are very cool.
With a mixer you could mix all those LFOs (including the AFGs) and with something like a M13 (or other comparator) make some triggers/gates from those mixed LFOs. smile
felix
If you do add VCAs (I agree, you should at least have 2), I would highly suggest ones that have a gain control at the very least. IMO, the A132-3 is the best VCA for the money available in Euro right now. Not only do you have the gain offset, but also input CV attenuation *AND* lin/exp modes.
jonkull
So something more like this...



Funny...I originally wanted the 132-3 VCA but they've been out of stock at AH for a while so I went with the 131. I also originally planned on the 143-1 but bought two 140s to save some space. Bad choice on my part.

Does anyone have the Model 17 3x Event Timer and is it useful? Also I'm 50/50 on the Model 13. Buchla Bongos aside how useful is it? Also what about a quantizer for LFO (or whatever) -> 1V/O?
felix
jonkull wrote:
Does anyone have the Model 17 3x Event Timer and is it useful? Also I'm 50/50 on the Model 13. Buchla Bongos aside how useful is it? Also what about a quantizer for LFO (or whatever) -> 1V/O?

I have the M17 and it's quite useful for generating trigger sources, since it can work with LFOs (but only the positive half) and EGs. So if you don't have a lot of trigger sources, it works great. I really like it, but I don't find myself using it that often.

The M13 is also a great sound shaper, when in LP mode. It makes a very natural sound when attenuating, either manually or by EG. I use it more that way than to to make the "buchla sound". It's like a VCA with character. I don't think I'd give mine up. I'd consider a QMMG instead since it can do DC signals and be a normal VCA (and x4), but I don't think I'd be without a LPG. It's also a 2ch mixer in a pinch.
VanEck
Quote:
Funny...I originally wanted the 132-3 VCA but they've been out of stock at AH for a while so I went with the 131.


I was waiting for AH to get them in stock for a while, but jsut ordered one last week from http://www.thomann.de/gb/modular_synthesizers.html

Even after currency conversion and international shipping, it was still a good deal and should be here soon hihi
jonkull
felix wrote:
I have the M17 and it's quite useful for generating trigger sources, since it can work with LFOs (but only the positive half) and EGs. So if you don't have a lot of trigger sources, it works great. I really like it, but I don't find myself using it that often.


Right now I've been using a square LFO from the Vulcan to trigger envelopes. It would be nice to have more control over timing without having to use both square LFOs for the envelopes. Outside of that I don't know how useful it would be otherwise.

felix wrote:
The M13 is also a great sound shaper, when in LP mode. It makes a very natural sound when attenuating, either manually or by EG. I use it more that way than to to make the "buchla sound". It's like a VCA with character. I don't think I'd give mine up. I'd consider a QMMG instead since it can do DC signals and be a normal VCA (and x4), but I don't think I'd be without a LPG. It's also a 2ch mixer in a pinch.


Maybe I should consider one 132-3 and a Model 13 then. Hmmm...
jonkull
VanEck wrote:
I was waiting for AH to get them in stock for a while, but jsut ordered one last week from http://www.thomann.de/gb/modular_synthesizers.html

Even after currency conversion and international shipping, it was still a good deal and should be here soon hihi


I've been to the Thomann site multiple times now but something about international ordering makes it hard to pull the trigger. I'm always worried about shipping costs and things getting held up at the border...and what if I need to return it?
felix
jonkull wrote:
felix wrote:
I have the M17 and it's quite useful for generating trigger sources, since it can work with LFOs (but only the positive half) and EGs. So if you don't have a lot of trigger sources, it works great. I really like it, but I don't find myself using it that often.


Right now I've been using a square LFO from the Vulcan to trigger envelopes. It would be nice to have more control over timing without having to use both square LFOs for the envelopes. Outside of that I don't know how useful it would be otherwise.

felix wrote:
The M13 is also a great sound shaper, when in LP mode. It makes a very natural sound when attenuating, either manually or by EG. I use it more that way than to to make the "buchla sound". It's like a VCA with character. I don't think I'd give mine up. I'd consider a QMMG instead since it can do DC signals and be a normal VCA (and x4), but I don't think I'd be without a LPG. It's also a 2ch mixer in a pinch.


Maybe I should consider one 132-3 and a Model 13 then. Hmmm...


One thing to keep in mind is that if you get the A-143-1, you have the basic M17 functionality built in with the threshold comparator for each EG. The only other functionality missing that the M17 has are the various "NOT" outputs, which could be had with the inverters on the A166 Logic module.

The other cool thing is that you can use triggers/gates/square wave LFOs to open the M13s. Because they are vactrols, not only do they ring a bit, leaving a more natural, non-clicky, sounding decay, but they do open up immediately either, so they don't click on opening like many VCAs do when opened/closed with a square wave.
jonkull
felix wrote:
One thing to keep in mind is that if you get the A-143-1, you have the basic M17 functionality built in with the threshold comparator for each EG.


Well that's good to know. Maybe I should do something like this then:

felix
I think the only problem is going to be that ASys divider. While the ASys stuff is the same HP scale as the rest of Euro, their mounting holes are in a different spot, so you end up with a little extra space on each side of the module, an extra 1 HP on each side I believe. Unless you plan on boring out the holes into a "slot", you might want to avoid that one and just go for the Doepfer (which does more divisions, although unfortunately, neither do odd divisions).

Someone PLEASE make a euro format divider that does 3, 5, 7, 9, etc divisions as well!
jonkull
Probably the easier way to go (A-160). One more thing on the 'Out of Stock' list though...
brandon daniel
AH is running low on Doepfer stuff because they went longer between orders than usual. This latest shipment is a big 'un, and it should be arriving in a week or two from what I hear, so sit tight, what you want might just be in stock soon.
berfmurret
i emailed AH inquiring about a list of "out of stock" items a month or so ago.. the a160 will be back in stock this month.. so shawn is saying.
jonkull
Yeah, he told me 2-3 weeks back in November. I figure with the holidays he's probably a little behind.
dkcg
did I say M13 for timing? I meant the M17 triple timer. I pretty much use the M13s only for audio.

I love my M17, can't own a euro system w/o it. smile I use it all the time for making triplets and syncopations and voltage controlled gate/trigger delay.

that with M10 (or other slow env), a LFO and a logic gate could make some great rhythms.

If you like the heisenberg, check out the 149-1 Quantized/stored Random Voltage module. Also cool, and another flavor of random..
modularplanner
+1 on an A-143-1 and A-132-3. I received my shiny new 143-1 yesterday and was having a fiddle last night, looks really promising. The A-132-3 was a no brainer for me as I want a stereo output setup eventually for panning and the z5000 fx module..
jonkull
dkcg wrote:
I love my M17, can't own a euro system w/o it. smile I use it all the time for making triplets and syncopations and voltage controlled gate/trigger delay.


I have a question about the M17. Does the M17 output a delayed version of what's put into it or does it take the input and output a trigger? For example if I want to use 1 LFO to modulate two different destinations 1 second apart from each other can I do this or will I only be able to trigger envelopes with this thing?
jonkull
Also how does the A-132 compare to the A-132-3? Two VCAs...half the HP...
dkcg
jonkull wrote:
dkcg wrote:
I love my M17, can't own a euro system w/o it. smile I use it all the time for making triplets and syncopations and voltage controlled gate/trigger delay.


I have a question about the M17. Does the M17 output a delayed version of what's put into it or does it take the input and output a trigger? For example if I want to use 1 LFO to modulate two different destinations 1 second apart from each other can I do this or will I only be able to trigger envelopes with this thing?


It's got no delay like normal trigger delays. You basically feed it a signal, an envelope if you want a delay effect. The M17 can fire off up to 3 pulses on, 3 pulses off. It's basically 3 comparators that are linked together. The slower the envelope, the more "delay" between gates/triggers.

For example, i send the M17 a 20 second 5 volt linear envelope into the 1st input. The M17 would create 3 pulses for the voltage going up and 3 more for it doing down. If the env attack is fast, you can trigger another env gen once while the volatage goes up (since the attack is fast), up to 8 different gate/triggers (2 triggers, 3 gates and 3 inverse gates). The M17 compares the voltage you set with the knob and the signal coming in (an env in this case) and creates those gates and triggers. I use a slow M10 to to fire off other env generators, sync LFOs, gate signals with a slew, feedback envs from a env gen triggered by the M17, etc. One of my favorite timeing tools for doing triplets and syncopation. But it's not the same as a gate delay, there really is no delay, just the ability to create a delay from a control signal.

It does not output the original signal. I use a mult before the M17 if I need that signal elsewhere.

For an LFO through he M17, if you think of the delay as a delay in phase and not time, that might make it easier to make sense? hmmm.....
jonkull
dkcg wrote:
It does not output the original signal. I use a mult before the M17 if I need that signal elsewhere.


Ahhh. I thought it was more of a delay type thing where I could feed a signal through it and the signal itself would be split and delayed. I was thinking I could feed a triangle LFO into it and have that alter both cutoff and resonance (for example) only instead of receiving the same value at the same time they would be offset from each other. You know...cutoff opens...gets to the halfway point...res opens...cutoff closes...halfway down the slope...res closes...blah blah blah.

So basically I'd just use it to fire envelopes. Got it...
dkcg
jonkull wrote:
dkcg wrote:
It does not output the original signal. I use a mult before the M17 if I need that signal elsewhere.


Ahhh. I thought it was more of a delay type thing where I could feed a signal through it and the signal itself would be split and delayed. I was thinking I could feed a triangle LFO into it and have that alter both cutoff and resonance (for example) only instead of receiving the same value at the same time they would be offset from each other. You know...cutoff opens...gets to the halfway point...res opens...cutoff closes...halfway down the slope...res closes...blah blah blah.

So basically I'd just use it to fire envelopes. Got it...



You can kinda do that with the Tyme Sefari. Sounds like you're after a CV recorder more than a gate delay.
jonkull
Maybe I am...now I'll have to look into that.
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