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Random*Source PSU for Serge/4U/... [IC 2nd run in aluminum?]
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next [all]
Author Random*Source PSU for Serge/4U/... [IC 2nd run in aluminum?]

nordlead

Update 14 june 2015: Status: Interest check for a second run started - see post on page 6 Rockin' Banana!

===========

Status: 1st run sold out

With enormous help from 3D-wizard Nils thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up, fonik and I have been working on a PSU design to power up to 5 Serge panels:

    * massive stainless steel enclosure (top: 3mm V2A)
    * designed for Power-One 1.7A PSU
    * 5 separate Neutrik XLR (4-pole) outlets
    * pcb for power distribution and XLR mounting (no internal XLR wiring)
    * 1 banana ground jack
    * 2 LEDs for +V, -V
    * made in Germany
    * weight: appr. 3kg (enclosure only!), appr. 5kg (including PSU, jacks etc.)


Here's some info re the assembly - please take the disclaimer seriously, line power can be lethal:

PSU BOM and Assembly Notes



Some pics:





More info about version 2 in the thread ...

First prototype:

http://randomsource.net/img/Serge_PSU_RandomSource_proto_1.jpg
http://randomsource.net/img/Serge_PSU_RandomSource_proto_2.jpg
http://randomsource.net/img/Serge_PSU_RandomSource_proto_3.jpg

The case is designed to that everything sits in the bottom element, so the unit can be built / tested/ calibrated without the top - once everything is fine, just slide the top over and fasten it with the screws.

Original post:

Please note: prototype is quite raw and was made without using bending foil. It shows visible lines from the folding/bending machine, production run will be done using the foil, but might still show some of these lines. Bottom element of the proto is 2.5mm steel, production will be 2mm stainless steel. When looking closely the logo holes show some burn signs from the laser, this might be less the case when using 2mm stainless steel, but we think it's part of the look anyway. Proto has no LEDs yet. I forgot to order the screws to fix the XLR jacks, so these screws are not (yet) on the photo... Oh, the most important part: the pcb will provide for an internal white led so that the case is illuminated from the inside when the PSU is ON - making it harder to forget turning it off.

What's next? We will do an initial (limited) run of 15 enclosures, 13 of which will be available for sale as either

(a) "Enclosure only kit", consisting of enclosure + custom distribution pcb (for XLR sockets, LEDs). Price will be EUR 170 / USD 200 (tbc, without shipping).

(b) "Full (pre-wired) kit", containing everything you need (including Power One psu, distribution pcb, Neutrik XLR jacks, Schurter switch, internal cables, screws...) except the power cord. This is sold as a DIY kit, i.e. there are no CE or any other approvals or certifications as this would absolutely blow the scope of this project. So depending on in which country you're in, you may need a certified electrician to set this up. There will be some internal pre-wiring (e.g. XLR jacks). Price for this full kit is EUR 360 / USD 420 (tbc, without shipping).

The 13 kits will be sold on a first come first serve basis. If you're (definitely) interested, please post in this thread (stating your country as well). Based on the recent experience of having to chase people with confirmed orders for weeks, we will probably ask for a deposit. We expect to be able to start shipping in about 2 to 4 weeks. Considering the weight aspect (and shipping costs), option (a - enclosure only) might make more sense, especially if you're not in Europe.

How does this compare to existing Serge PSUs? Afaik the current PS4A contains the smaller Power One unit (HAA15-0.8-AG, 0.8A @12V, max 1.1A) while the PS6A contains basically the same PSU as our design (HBB15-1.5-AG, 1.5A @12V, max 1.7), so in terms of power it should be the equivalent of a PS6A. Since there are 5 individual outlets you can power up to 5 panels without using a PSD. However, we are a bit skeptical about the claim that the PS6A can power (up to) 6 panels, clearly this depends on how much each panel draws, but in general it seems best not to squeeze out the last bit of juice of of the PSU, but run with around 60% load. So even to power 2 or 3 panels we think this PSU makes more sense than the smaller HAA version and leaves some room for future expansion. The PSU can be set up for 12V (classic Serge) or 15V output.

Why XLR? The Molex connectors used by STS are really for internal wiring (only) and would be far from ideal as a connector in a PSU enclosure. XLR is a professional standard, way more rugged (and better looking ;-) You can use an XLR to Molex cable to directly power any existing (STS) Serge panels:



Your feedback is very welcome! Guinness ftw!

Pre-orders:

c1t1zen: 2x enclosure only, USA
30ohm: option B, USA
tmeade: 1x enclosure only, 1x option B, New Zealand
regenbot, enclosure only, Finland
Pfurmel, enclosure only, Ireland
jpauty: option B, France
chinard: option B, Canada
Vsyevolod: 2x enclosure only, USA
fiosz: 1x option B, Switzerland
qstate: 4x enclosure only, USA
udbhav: option B, USA
sascha.victoria: option B, USA
modintx: 1x kit, USA


eonz

Now that's one sexy PSU love


macumbista

Been interested in this since rumors popped up a while ago. Good to see it in the works!

EDIT: not a confirmed order, more a message of support as I have a couple people I work with who will order one for sure!


macumbista

One thing that would make this much better would be a (difficult to accidentally engage) switch that changes input voltage between 110 and 220. Easy enough, as this is done with jumper settings to the Power One trafo anyways, and incredibly useful for folks who gig internationally. Keep it in mind for future iterations if this one is 100% designed already...


nordlead

macumbista wrote:
One thing that would make this much better would be a (difficult to accidentally engage) switch that changes input voltage between 110 and 220. Easy enough, as this is done with jumper settings to the Power One trafo anyways, and incredibly useful for folks who gig internationally. Keep it in mind for future iterations if this one is 100% designed already...


Well, we've contemplated including a input voltage switch ... given the massive weight (and power) of this piece, it's not really intended for mobile use... more a solid piece of living room furniture ;-) Seriously, I'm not sure how many people would actually want to take it on a plane. The other point is probably even more relevant, how would we do it fool-proof?

Guess there's always the option to solder a switch in internally when wiring up the power one - this approach would force you to unscrew 4 screws, open the top, toggle the switch and close everything again every time you want to use it in a different power environment... so changing the input voltage by accident should not be a problem any more (of course you still have to remember to do this when getting off the plane). I think (at least in theory) you'd also have to change the fuse ...


prscrptn

...beautiful! love








FS: (US/WW) Buchla 200e

FS: (US/WW) Make Noise/Monorocket 6u (208hp) case


macumbista

nordlead wrote:
Well, we've contemplated including a input voltage switch ... given the massive weight (and power) of this piece, it's not really intended for mobile use... more a solid piece of living room furniture ;-) Seriously, I'm not sure how many people would actually want to take it on a plane.


Well I can think of at least one artist off the bat, who travels transcontinentally with up to 5 Serge panels and has been asking me about such a thing for at least a year now ;-) Which is exactly why I suggest it.


cyklopljud

Exactly what i'm after!


macumbista

Keep in mind that the newest STS Serge panels take much much more current than older ones, so this may only end up powering three or four and this would be a totally normal touring rig for many musicians.

The main question for me is, why these newer Serge panels are so damned current-hungry! The PSUs suggested by Rex seem massively overpowered for what appears to be in them, but somehow it's still possible to "brown out" easily with a PSU that would be more than sufficient for any other kind of system... hmmm.....


nordlead

macumbista wrote:
Keep in mind that the newest STS Serge panels take much much more current than older ones


Which ones specifically?

We think the proper way to go about this would be to publish the exact power consumption of any module/panel (as in Euro land), so anybody could easily add up the total current requirement for a specific setup. No idea why this is not disclosed in the Serge (STS) world. That's also why we are hesitant to give any "# of panels" indications...

And I fully agree, (also in terms of efficiency) it makes a lot of sense to have quite a bit of headroom when choosing the PSU.

Can't promise anything now, but we'll keep that input switch topic in out heads ...


fonik

derek,
from my rough estimations (hard to get real numbers of current draw of serge systems on the net) i believe you could easily power 4 rows from this PSU.
and i would use the PS-4 (HAA15) for only 2 rows (this is what i actually do with my euro stuff).


macumbista

STS doesn't disclose in order to keep some "proprietary" control over PSUs used with their stuff, I imagine. (Same with the frankly horrible power connection standard he uses...)

As far as I understand, Rex has redesigned a lot of things lately for the new M-Class and Shop panels, particularly in terms of the NTOs and PVCOs. Thus the difference between the old PS and new PSA series power supplies he offers.

I am basing this on observations made by the artist I assist between the exact same Shop panels from a few years ago and ones sold this year. He simply can't power up the same equivalent in new ones as he could with the PS intended for the old ones.

Sorry I can't be more scientific at the moment, just curious if you based your calculations on old or new STS panels.

Best wishes! D.


Monobass

love that enclosure thumbs up


BugBrand

You can get IEC sockets (looking similar to what you have pictured) with combinational fuse box voltage selector (you swap the orientation of the fuse holder to swap 115 to 230V AC). The ones I checked also had power filtering. Via mouser, price was perhaps £15-20? They are quite bulky behind the panel mind..

(sorry, don't have any links easy..)


BugBrand

Part - 562-864-06/5 from Mouser is one such part..


fonik

macumbista wrote:
I am basing this on observations made by the artist I assist between the exact same Shop panels from a few years ago and ones sold this year. He simply can't power up the same equivalent in new ones as he could with the PS intended for the old ones.

might depend on the parts you use, even if the actual circuit stays the same (low power ICs vs high end audio grade ICs, or bright LEDs which use less current...). just guessing.

Quote:
Sorry I can't be more scientific at the moment, just curious if you based your calculations on old or new STS panels.

rough estimation.
i just assume that a row of serge will consume almost the same as a row of euro (salmost same number of front panel components per row).
and i easily power two rows of 15V CGS, MFOS and other DIY stuff (build in euro form factor) from a HAA.
8_)


mirri

BIIIIG thumbs up


macumbista

fonik wrote:
i just assume that a row of serge will consume almost the same as a row of euro (salmost same number of front panel components per row).
and i easily power two rows of 15V CGS, MFOS and other DIY stuff (build in euro form factor) from a HAA.
8_)


That's exactly what I would assume as well, however STS Serge stuff constantly confounds me. Will be interesting to hear back from your users on this. You might also check the specs for the new PSA series power supplies and how many panels they are designed to run. Results might shock you! razz


weinglas

What a beauty love


fonik

macumbista wrote:
That's exactly what I would assume as well, however STS Serge stuff constantly confounds me. Will be interesting to hear back from your users on this. You might also check the specs for the new PSA series power supplies and how many panels they are designed to run. Results might shock you! razz

we will do some measurements with the panels/modules we have. i am very confident about running 4 rows from this.
anyways, with this price-tag you would have to compare it with a PS-4, not a PS-6.


regenbot

So if i picked the a) option i would need http://fi.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Power-One/HB12-17-AG/?qs=UrIO86Dvch fftFtWbOQckQ== one of these and some XLR's wire and the power switch part?


nordlead

regenbot wrote:
So if i picked the a) option i would need http://fi.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Power-One/HB12-17-AG/?qs=UrIO86Dvch fftFtWbOQckQ== one of these and some XLR's wire and the power switch part?


Almost, the Power One PSU is HBB15-1.5-AG (Mouser: 784-HBB15-1.5-AG), XLR sockets are Neutrik NC4FAV or NC4FAV-0, current cutout is for Schurter KM01.1105.11 switch (Reichelt or Mouser 693-KM01.1105.11) plus small parts (M4 screws, spacer, LEDs ...)


regenbot

thanks thumbs up

So only 0.7A of -12V. Is typical consumption that much lower on the negative side? Doesn't seem like it if i look at make noise modules for example. hmmm.....


nordlead

regenbot wrote:


So only 0.7A of -12V. Is typical consumption that much lower on the negative side? Doesn't seem like it if i look at make noise modules for example. hmmm.....


?!? What makes you think that? As I stated somewhere in the first post (according to the datasheet) it's max 1.7A for both +12V and -12V. This should be plenty to power 3-4 panels, possibly even more.


regenbot

This is what it says on the description "Linear Power Supplies +12/-12V, 1.7/0.7A" just thought it was correct info,but indeed says 1.7 for both on the datasheet.

Sorry for confusing d'oh!

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