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Granular euro - godsend, or largely pointless?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author Granular euro - godsend, or largely pointless?

theglyph

Phonogene?


Veqtor

I love grain delays, also having some cv control over jitter also, pitch envelopes of the grains is really nice, would love connecting it up to pp+brains with the pp modulations controlling different resynthesis parameters and also a rené to control a 1/voct pitch transpose input.

And about the "there's no point in having one because you can do it on a computer"... Sell your modular. You can do all of it on a computer.

But seriously... I think it's what won't come to mind until I work with a modular granular processor for a while that'll be really interesting.


suboptimal

Veqtor wrote:
And about the "there's no point in having one because you can do it on a computer"... Sell your modular. You can do all of it on a computer.


Perfectly put.

Having CV control, modular levels, the ability to process CV (now wouldn't that be cool?) all would be nifty. Also pretty expensive, I'm betting.

The Phonogene can make some sort of granular sounds, but it's not doing the same thing as a true granular processor, I think. Not being much of a computer user when it comes to music, I could be quite wrong.


pixelmechanic

Veqtor wrote:
Sell your modular. You can do all of it on a computer.


Actually, I've just trimmed down from 15u to 6u so that I can focus more on integrating the things that I love about working with Max with the things that I love about (whats left of) my modular.

Over time I've learned how to get pretty close to the instability and sweet-spot-ness of my modular with Max (and also with my MicroMod), and there's just some stuff that I like to be able to do live that I can't conveniently do with a modular... and a serious amount of granular streams is one of them


Monobass

I hope the mobile device version of PD will be offered on the Raspberry Pi.... that could open up a very modular friendly world of high quality/voice computer granulation.


Veqtor

I'm quite fond of the idea of having an actual modular. I could never replace it with a computer. Perhaps it is that I work with computers all the time and want to get away from them when I create. There's something about a computer screen that kind of makes it not-leisure anymore for me. I went from reaktor to REAL modulars so... I'm never going back. w00t


Monobass

yeah me too.. although If I could easily encapsulate a PD or Max patch into a standalone module that would be awesome...


Drumdrumdrumdrum

Andrino and Max?

I'm still a bit naive about all these open source programs. It all seems a bit too geeky for me. I'm researching the whole idea but it seems like a bottomless pit of research. How far does one go before they can use it for compositions?

Granular effects just take me to outer space. I have to have it in my music, there is no doubt.


Soy Sos

The Fragment Generator is not really granular in the way people are discussing, as in chopping up bits of digital audio. I just got a Tyme Sefari a couple of days ago and am having a lot of fun with it. I know it's not granular either, but it is letting me crudely shuffle and scan through small 8 bit audio samples. The Max 4 Live instrument Granulator is the shit, I doubt we'll see anything that huge in a module any time soon. I'd love something between those 2 extremes at some point for sure!

DGTom (the designer) describes the Fragment Generator:

I could call it a VC Electro Boogie Tom Fill module. . . but I don't think that will help much

its not digital but it can sound very digital.

it isn't a filter, tho it _contains filters_

it's more indebted to the Polyrhythmophone than the 258, but, has more in comman with the TR 808 than either of those.

it is, indeed, a PITA to explain without getting bogged down in technicals, but I'll do my best.

Its a 'voice module' that has VC over Frequency, Amplitude & Timbre built around 3 high Q (ringing) filters which we've called "fragments"

How often, how loudly, at which frequency & at which relative position each fragment 'rings' makes up the sound at any given moment in time.

It can sound like a 500bpm electro breakbeat, like the secret attic offspring of granulab & a CZ-101, make throaty, resonant filter sweepy sounds & insane subsonic, almost DC 'is this shit even on' speaker wobbling waveforms.

its my attempt at Marvel Comics "WHAT IF. . . Granular Synthesis Was Analogue!!?!?!" & is best used while wearing a cape with your undies on the outside of your pants for that very reason!


Monobass

Drumdrumdrumdrum wrote:
Andrino and Max?

I'm still a bit naive about all these open source programs. It all seems a bit too geeky for me. I'm researching the whole idea but it seems like a bottomless pit of research. How far does one go before they can use it for compositions?


Max, it was about 1-2 hours for me, Arduino maybe more like a day.

How far did you have to go with a modular synth before you used it for a composition?


tomerbe

if i have time i'll put together some sort of granular patch this weekend. though i'll be "cheating" as i'll be using my es3 & PD to provide the grain envelopes and CVs with random deviation. i only have enough modules to do 2 or 3 grains at once (3vcas, 3 vcos), but enough to be somewhat interesting....


amalthea

Drumdrumdrumdrum wrote:
phase ghost wrote:
I'd say largely pointless. However, cv into the computer (via Silent Way) to control parameters of a granular synth plugin would be cool.


Well, this is getting OT Euro, but what good Granulators are being used? Really smooth ones that are Hi Hi Fi? I only know of the Granular EFX in Omnisphere that is really good. All the freeware ones like Granulator, just don't sound as Hi Fi to me on the demos.


I used to use the Martin Brinkmann's reaktor ensemble Grainstates all the time, and it's quite good. Another good is White Grains, although it's harder to control. I've also just started using Camel Audio's Alchemy synth for granular stuff, and it is amazing. Really high quality, and gives you much more control than the granular function in Omnisphere (as well as the all-important ability to use your own audio material).

-Andreas


Drumdrumdrumdrum

Why have I not heard about Alchemy before now? That is one slick VST! Im particularly interested in using this for resynthesis. They seem like a fun bunch of geek programers too.


thaneco

Reaktor is an amazing program with endless possibilities. Using both modular and reaktor is the best way for me (like for example passing the audio out from my modular to reaktor's granular effects). But I have to agree that watching a computer screen is a little tiresome lolspew


Drumdrumdrumdrum

Not to dis Reactor, but it always sounds like Reactor....if you know what I mean? Im starting to feel the same about Omnisphere too. Can pick it from a mile away on a movie soundtrack or nature doco.

I agree that a balance between VSTs and modular is the key. But balancing can be very tricky.

If some of these companies like Livid could get some real hands on interfacing between modular and VST then................

MY ASS IS BLEEDING


Dr. Sketch-n-Etch

So, I'm a bit of a noob with this granular stuff. Is it basically just switching little snippets of sound in and out really quickly? For example, say that you've got two sources of audio (say, Bach's "Mass in B Minor" on Channel 1 and the Sex Pistols' "God Save the Queen" on Channel 2) going into a crossfader (like, say, the Intellijel uFade -- TM 2011, All Rights Reserved) which is being controlled by a pulse wave at 1 to 100 Hz. Now, let's say you modulate the pulse width and frequency of the pulse wave. Would this essentially be granular synthesis?


tomerbe

you are somewhat there.

granular synthesisis a pretty open idea, but usually implies randomization of parameters for each grain, possibility of randomization of grain size and start time. and a variability of grain density, so that you might have 0 to say 32 grains (no real top limit) playing at the same time.

check barry truax's riverrun for an early example



here's a simple granular csound sampling piece i did a while back

[s]http://soundcloud.com/tomerbe/i-can-hear-my-heart-singing[/s]


Mark Landman

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
So, I'm a bit of a noob with this granular stuff.

Here's the place to start, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granular_synthesis

Typically it involves sample granulation, but some fantastic soundscapes can come from using simple single cycle waveforms too. This by nature calls for digital implementation, an analog version w/ sufficient grains seems unlikely.


Johnisfaster

How could it possibly be pointless? I put modular samples into software granular apps all the time and it sounds bitchin. To be able to do it on the modular with CV control would be amazing.

A simple sine sample can get really crazy, it doesnt have to be a complex audio source to get really complex results.


amalthea

Drumdrumdrumdrum wrote:
Why have I not heard about Alchemy before now? That is one slick VST! Im particularly interested in using this for resynthesis. They seem like a fun bunch of geek programers too.


Then there's also of course Steinberg's upcoming Padshop, which looks like it has a ton of control and functionality, but unfortunately (as far as I can tell) no way to use your own audio samples (yet?).


http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/02/steinberg-padshop-coming-soon-gr anular-synthesis-for-the-rest-of-us-handy-intro-video-explains/


mrcharles

I've been exploring granular synthesis software for almost a year now... in addition to the Reaktor ensembles, here are a couple of applications that I recommend.

In particular, Density ( http://www.densitygs.com/ ). This comes as a standalone application or in Max4Live versions. It is a very powerful application that can morph between different "snapshots" of grain parameters, has built in reverb, compression, and a multi-band filter equalizer.

Audiomulch ( http://www.audiomulch.com/ ) has a number of granular synthesis tools in its library of contraptions.

I'm new to the modular world (trying to figure out just what my first configuration will be...), but I wonder just how analog a modular granular synth could be... it would have to handle an awful lot of data.

When you combine granular audio and video... well, it is out of this world... see:




tomerbe

here's my attempt to do granular synth on my modular - this is fairly minimal, just two vcos through two vcas. think i'll try to expand on this....

grain envelopes and pitches are generated by PD and sent through the ES-3

https://vimeo.com/37874001


ianross

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
So, I'm a bit of a noob with this granular stuff. Is it basically just switching little snippets of sound in and out really quickly? For example, say that you've got two sources of audio (say, Bach's "Mass in B Minor" on Channel 1 and the Sex Pistols' "God Save the Queen" on Channel 2) going into a crossfader (like, say, the Intellijel uFade -- TM 2011, All Rights Reserved) which is being controlled by a pulse wave at 1 to 100 Hz. Now, let's say you modulate the pulse width and frequency of the pulse wave. Would this essentially be granular synthesis?


If that's what granular synthesis is then your new mixer is basically a granular synthesizer. : )


Dr. Sketch-n-Etch

ianross wrote:
If that's what granular synthesis is then your new mixer is basically a granular synthesizer. : )

Yes, I guess it is! What I'm curious about is if two (or more) recognizable audio sources are sequenced rapidly, are they still recognizable? Does it sound like two audio sources playing at the same time, or something else entirely? I guess we'll be able to do this kind of experiment with the Mutamix.


radiodread87

could you also do this with the Ufade? as in have two sound sources play into it and switch between them at audio rates?

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