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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

space echo footswitch question
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Guitars, Basses, Amps & FX Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author space echo footswitch question
dude
i am very excited. i just bought a space echo up here.
i have only messed with one of these long ago, in fact it was sitting next to the polyfusion modular i originally learned on.

anyway, can i use gates form the modular to toggle the footswitch on/off? also does anybody have a space echo tape they like as replacement over other available options?

i also have a modcan super delay on order so i will have the delay triumvirate!

this is exciting.
dude
SlayerBadger!
valis
I don't know. All I do know is that I'm insanely jealous. Enjoy!
dude
well you know you are so welcome to come by and make noises over tea if ever you are in town! you should probably wait until they all arrive though. hihi

in the meantime, the place is just over-run with parts for the little boxes i am building (see my sig) and most any other modular time has been spent trying to troubleshoot my half dead diode filter.
valis
Haha. Thanks for the invite. At some point I really will make it up there. I'm just a complete homebody though. If you combine that with a 2+ hour drive it's pretty much a recipe for me to never getting up to the pdx.

Okay, enough of my banter. Somebody answer the dude's question!
dude
so maybe somebody has a space echo and knows about the footswitch?
chromium
Congrats! I tried to go Strymon... I really did. But they were out of stock, my 301 motor went tits up, and I ended up with another space echo- a 501. If I can keep one out of three running (have a 150 parts unit/monitor stand too), I'll be thrilled! Dead Banana

So re: the footswitch- if you're talking about the remote cancel footswitch jack(s), it looks like the tip of those jacks is normally connected to ground (switching jacks). When you plug a footswitch in, it breaks that "normalled" connection and allows you to toggle it with the footswitch. Looks like open=cancel, and closed=on. This is looking at my 301 schematic - not sure which one you have, but I'd guess they're all similar in that respect.

If you have some way to open and close a connection between the tip&sleeve of a patch cable using some module, that would probably give you the result you are looking for. Maybe something like a v-trig to s-trig adapter would do it (except you'd need a 1/4" plug on the s-trig side, instead of the usual cinch-jones connector). With a gate applied to the v-trig side, it would close the connection between tip and sleeve on the s-trig side... I think that would work as a voltage-controlled cancel switch for the space echo. Sounds like another DIY effort in the making w00t
dude
cool! so pulsing it won't be a good or functional thing. i was sort of hoping to be able to be able to use an lfo to turn cancel the wet out but i can always use the scanner to get what i want.

fuck i hope i didn't just enter into a nightmare with vintage motors.

oh well. more will be revealed.
chromium
dude wrote:
cool! so pulsing it won't be a good or functional thing. i was sort of hoping to be able to be able to use an lfo to turn cancel the wet out but i can always use the scanner to get what i want.


Yeah pulsing it directly won't give you what you want.

Here's a schematic for an adapter that should work here. Apply your gate/pulse at the "gate input" and connect the "s-trig out" to the echo-cancel jack on the space echo. It should behave like a voltage controlled footswitch...






dude wrote:
fuck i hope i didn't just enter into a nightmare with vintage motors.

oh well. more will be revealed.


I wouldn't sweat it - overall these things are pretty easy to keep running, and the sound is worth it. That motor was just luck of the draw...
dude
is there no power necessary i guess for that design? chromium, you are like superman.
chromium
dude wrote:
is there no power necessary i guess for that design?


Yeah that's correct - the gate you apply to the input provides the power. The transistor acts like a switch- closing the connection between the tip and sleeve on the output when the gate is applied, and opening it when there is no power. Same principle for converting a v-trig to a Moog switch trigger.
dude
awesome. i suppose the best idea would be to dissect an existing cable and add my parts somewhere in between?
dude
you don't by any chance have a pic of something like this in action?
chromium
dude wrote:
awesome. i suppose the best idea would be to dissect an existing cable and add my parts somewhere in between?


You could just fit that transistor and that 10K resistor right in the barrel on the end of the cable that you dissect.

I don't have any pics, but I've been meaning to build up one of these s-trig adapter cables for that minimoog. I have the parts and might be able to do that in the next day or two, and so I'll snap a shot for ya then...
dude
awesome! you don't by any chance have spares on the transistor and resistor pair i might be able to buy from you?
stk
Yeah I wouldn't recommend turning it off/on quickly, at least on mine (RE201) the footswitch turns the motor on and off, which would surely cause extra wear.
dude
ah right on, good to know. i figured it just bypassed the wet signal. much better to leave the motor alone as much as possible methinks.

thanks for all the help!
chromium
With my 301 and 501, the motor stays on constantly when toggling the echo cancel footswitch. It has the same effect as pushing the "echo" button on the front panel- just cuts the echo audio in and out of the mix.

Not sure what model you have, but you could test the behavior by plugging a patch cable into the footswitch jack. With nothing connected, it should disable the echo, and shorting the tip and sleeve together should activate the echo again.

Actually, I wish mine would turn the motor off, since it has something equivalent to a CE-1 chorus built in. Hate putting extra wear and tear on the tape path if/when I'm just using it for the chorus effect...


dude wrote:
awesome! you don't by any chance have spares on the transistor and resistor pair i might be able to buy from you?


Yeah I have an abundance of them. Shoot me a message with your mailing info and I'll send you some.
ziopad
I'm stoked to find this thread. I just got a 201 at the beginning of the year and haven't had a chance to play with it much. I'm looking forward to trying out the footswitch tomorrow night and seeing whether it stops the motor on my unit. Like dude, I just figured it was just a bypass...
stk
ziopad wrote:
I'm stoked to find this thread. I just got a 201 at the beginning of the year and haven't had a chance to play with it much. I'm looking forward to trying out the footswitch tomorrow night and seeing whether it stops the motor on my unit. Like dude, I just figured it was just a bypass...


Just doublechecked with my 201 and, yes, it stops the motor.

My DM300, however, accepts CV into the rear expresson pedal input to control delay time It's peanut butter jelly time!
dude
the 301 and 501 are later models i think? and the 150 and 201 are earlier. i bet the 150's motor turns off too.
chromium
stk wrote:
Just doublechecked with my 201 and, yes, it stops the motor.


Ah - so they are indeed different. I just grabbed the 201 schematics off the web, and the cancel switch is is implemented there in a way that cuts the ground away from the motor. In the 301 and 501 (and 555) it looks like they shifted away from that, and instead use FETs to switch the audio signals in and out depending on how the front panel switches and the cancel footswitches are set... and the motor remains humming along.

I'm anxious now to try this s-trig adapter with the sound-on-sound cancel/enable footswitch jack on the 501 - turn looping on and off via a gate...
chromium
Dude- I assume you probably aren't pursuing this automated switching due to the different implementation in the 201, and presumably 150. Just wanted to share back for anyone else interested, though, that I did build a v-trig to s-trig adapter cable, and while it does function - it does not function in this capacity with the 301/501.

Haven't looked into why yet, but I found a good blog here that speaks specifically to some of the datasheet vs. real world performance of using transistors as switches, and my hunch is that the off state isn't providing enough isolation to fully open the space echo circuit... (the behavior is that the space echo functions always remain on).

Anyway, just wanted to share back another way to do this that did work for me. I used one of my Q128 analog switches, and made a 1/4" shunt (took a switchcraft 280, soldered the tip to the sleeve, and plugged the empty hole where the cable would normally go). I put this shunt in one of the Q128 switch's "throws" - either A or B, and then run the "common" output to the RE-301/501 footswitch jacks. Using a gate to control the Q128, I can switch between open connection, and a short to ground. Works like a champ! I forget what chip the 128 is built around, but it appears to make for a more efficient/effective electronic switch than the 2n3904 that I was using in the s-trig adapter cable...
dude
thanks for sharing that! i gave up on the idea for fear of messing with the motor unnecessarily. i figure i can do this sort of thing with my modcan which actually has honest to goodness cv control of everything.

i am still blown away with the simple re150. most amazing things happen when used in the feedback loop of the digi delay. the dumbest of sequences transforms into gooey variable perfection.
chromium
Dude had mentioned in a message to me that his RE-150 footswitch behavior is such that the motor remains running like the 301/501/555. Strange that they implemented the footswitches in so many different ways!

I haven't been able to locate a schematic for the 150... but I did coincidentally score another 150 off CL last week! This one was all there mechanically-speaking, but it was missing its faceplate(?!) and had a few other minor things going on. I already had a 150 parts unit here, so the two ended up making a happy couple!

nanners

Anyway- since I now have a working 150, I decided to try the s-trig adapter in its "echo cancel" footswitch jack... and lo and behold it works! I made a quick video to demo it:





I had also used the Q128 analog switch (mentioned earlier in the thread) here in this video - to toggle the sound-on-sound footswitch control on the RE-501 from a COTK clock divider (starting at ~2:43). Its very subtle, but it lets the pattern loop for a bit, and then erases it and starts over again...




Just wanted to share these findings here, in case its of use to anyone else.
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