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triggering a video clip from a gate
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Video Synthesis  
Author triggering a video clip from a gate
tuj
I know this is probably a video newb question, but is there a module or other piece of gear that can trigger playing a video clip from a 5v gate? I'd like to have a set of clips that I can trigger from different sequences and mix them together.
johnnywoods
afaik, not yet... there may be something from LZX at some point.
If you can convert the gate to MIDI, then you've got a ton of software based options, and the lovely (if slightly overpriced) Roland P-10
http://www.rolandsystemsgroup.com/products/100011

You could probably rig something with the Arduino and OpenFrameworks (or a similar language), but again, it would require a computer (but no MIDI!)
lizlarsen
I'm always on the hunt for hackable cheap media players that could possibly do this sort of thing, but nothing yet.

Yes, there will be an upcoming LZX clip/image playback module, a lot like the ADDAC system's wav player but for video, that will be able to index banks of clips on SD card and sequence/trigger them with logic signals. This module will have composite output as well as LZX-format 1V color signals so it could be used independently or with the other LZX modules for complex processing patches.

Your best bet at the moment is probably with software and a gate-to-midi converter as Johnny suggests. An easy way to get trigger-to-MIDI is with a drumpad interface such as the Alesis Trigger IO.
lizlarsen
There's also a lot of potential for the BeagleBoard, which is only $150 and features an integrated Composite/S-Video output.
tuj
What software would you guys suggest? I've been looking at GrandVJ. I'd love it to find something that doesn't require hardware acceleration so I can run it off a laptop.

I want to trigger/mix maybe a max of 8 video clips at a time. Looks like the hardware route is pretty expensive. And it also looks like the A-192 only does CC's...bummer. So the trigger|IO will handle 5v triggers/gates with no problem?
lizlarsen
Quote:
What software would you guys suggest?


I'm a fan of Resolume personally. It can be MIDI mapped in a style similar to Ableton Live. There are more customizable visual programming solutions like VVVV but that's more work.

Quote:
I want to trigger/mix maybe a max of 8 video clips at a time. Looks like the hardware route is pretty expensive


If you want to be able to mix 8 different sources (as in, make them all part of the same output image at the same time), yes that's expensive. All inputs have to be frame-synchronized with each other -- unless they are older devices/cameras that can be genlocked to a master clock.

Many video mixers which have more than 2 inputs (like the Videonics MX-1, which has 4) still only have 2 frame synchronizers (which is the expensive circuitry.) You only really need to have the same number of frame synchronizers as you want to mix.

Quote:
So the trigger|IO will handle 5v triggers/gates with no problem?

I would assume so, but I can't confirm that. It is a pad-to-MIDI device so it should be designed to accept a wide range of types of input signals with controls for sensitivity and well-protected inputs from voltage spikes, etc.
tuj
creatorlars wrote:

Quote:
I want to trigger/mix maybe a max of 8 video clips at a time. Looks like the hardware route is pretty expensive


If you want to be able to mix 8 different sources (as in, make them all part of the same output image at the same time), yes that's expensive.


So if I go the software route, this shouldn't matter right? I'll just be limited by the horsepower of the machine I use, right? (Sorry this video stuff is all new to me)


Quote:
Quote:
So the trigger|IO will handle 5v triggers/gates with no problem?

I would assume so, but I can't confirm that. It is a pad-to-MIDI device so it should be designed to accept a wide range of types of input signals with controls for sensitivity and well-protected inputs from voltage spikes, etc.


What about the TRS connections that it uses? Do I need to make some special cables, or does anyone know if it will take a mono cable with a 5v trigger on it ok?
lizlarsen
Quote:
So if I go the software route, this shouldn't matter right?


Well the real cost prohibitive difference we're talking about is being able to input 8 external devices and mix them together to the same output image. Even in software/computer, if you had 8 external video sources and the input hardware to handle that, you'd need quite a machine and spend a lot of money (probably more than buying 8x of my frame synchronizer modules when they come out).

What you're talking about though, which is mixing 8 video clips which are stored as video file data on the machine's hard drive (rather than live external video devices), is a lot simpler for the computer to handle. Still, 8 at once may require a lot of horsepower. In typical workflows, you only have 2-3 "channels" which get mixed, but then an unlimited number of video clips/sources to assign to each channel at a given time. It's a rare case that someone would need 8 simultaneous video channels. (Does that make sense?)

When/if you're ready to upgrade your modular video workflow, the output of the computer can still be routed thru analog video modules for further voltage controlled processing. (The computer is a cheap place to do the clip storage/playback/mixing, then you send the full output to the hardware stuff.)

Quote:
What about the TRS connections that it uses?


I imagine just plain 1/4" adapters are fine. I built a bunch of DIY drum pads a few years back and they just used TS/Mono cables.
daverj
If you're a student you might want to look into MAX/MSP/Jitter. The student pricing is fairly reasonable and Jitter can do a lot of stuff with video clips. If not a student, the list price is fairly high. Fine for a professional, but a lot for just playing around.
tuj
Ok, guess I'll pull the 'trigger' lol on the Trigger|IO and see how it goes. I'm trying to do something like FSoL's We Have Explosives video.
lizlarsen
Quote:
MAX/MSP/Jitter


On that note there are Processing and VVVV which can be programmed to do things with MIDI and clips as well, and they are open source.

I need to mess around with these things more often honestly. smile

Quote:
I'll pull the 'trigger' on the Trigger|IO and see how it goes.


I'm 99% sure it'll work, and it's cheap. smile There are DIY options out there for trigger-to-MIDI (MegaDrum, eDrum), but they are a lot of work.

Quote:
FSoL's We Have Explosives video.


Neat! So different "clips" would be layered animation elements?

Resolume can import and play Flash/SWF files and pass data to them -- I used to be a Flash/AS3 programmer professionally so I've had lots of fun with Flash animations imported into Resolume, which can enable MIDI and automation control over various variables in the Flash animation. That might be an option to think about if you are developing your own animation assets.

Quote:
the A-192 only does CC's

Forgot to mention about this!! You an always use MidiOX in software to re-translate the incoming MIDI stream from CCs to note on/off events. It'll let you do things like "if CC #22 is higher than 64, turn note A2 on, if lower, turn note A2 off", etc. Then you can just input trigger/gate signals and still use it as if the CV inputs are "playing notes with triggers" which is what you want for triggering clips. So this may be a solution after all.
tuj
Yup the idea is to have a complex percussion/synth sequence going and mult the gates/triggers out to the Trigger|IO then to MIDI then back to the computer and trigger some clips. I know FSoL had someone painstakingly sync their clips to the music and I'm looking for a more 'automated' way of generating similar type results. So yeah, each clip will be a layered element in the video.

Now I just need to figure out what software to use. I'll have to check out Resolume. Is there any software out there that can take a midi file and generate the video in NON-realtime? I'm thinking something like CSound for video that could render my video mix without needing real-time horsepower. Right now I don't need it to happen in real-time, although that would be cool. I'm worried about the horsepower issue on the PC side, especially because I usually work off laptops.

Now MidiOX, I had no idea that it could convert CC's to note on's; that's really cool. I've used MidiOX for a long time and never knew it could do that.
johnnywoods
If you're on a pc, vvvv is probably your best bet for this.
Processing is awesome and really fun, but it's Java based, so it's a bit slow at chomping realtime video, in my experience at least. Great for generative stuff and vector graphics, but when you start to introduce video streams, it gets a little bogged down. However, you CAN do what you had mentioned: reading a MIDI file not in realtime and rendering video controlled by said MIDI file. In fact, it would be pretty simple (given you know the basics of OOP).

I've had similarly taxing experiences with Jitter, although others have gotten decent performance out of it, I always found it a bit lagging when using full frame video. Of course, if you have a couple gb of video memory, I'm sure that helps!

The best thing for realtime video software, by far, imo, is OpenFrameworks, but the learning curve is very steep (unless you already know C++). The realtime video capabilities are staggering. It's incredibly lean and efficient.

If you have a mac, VDMX and Quartz Composer are awesome options, and Ive gotten several streams of video in and out of each quite efficiently. Both are written specifically for Apple hardware, so they take full advantage of the resources at hand. And they are probably the easiest to use of the bunch.
tuj
Well the good thing is that my dayjob is IT, so I do know Java, OOP and C++ and a bunch of others. Sounds like vvvv is the way to start.
johnnywoods
tuj wrote:
Well the good thing is that my dayjob is IT, so I do know Java, OOP and C++ and a bunch of others. Sounds like vvvv is the way to start.

thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

If I had your background, I would jump straight to OpenFrameworks, but vvvv is great too. Can't wait to see what you do with it!
MrDys
Yeah, the Trigger I/O will work. I use it with my modular all the time to play MIDI notes/scales.
lizlarsen
I'm very excited to see what you come up with, please keep us informed!
Chartreuse-J
Zombie thread zombie

Probably wishful thinking here...


A euro rack module with an SD card for video storage, patch points for CV inputs (scrub forward, reverse, speed and gate in) and video out either HDMI and or RCA.

Like a really CV'able euro rack video playback module.
Cata
A video-phonogene would be soooooooo dope
cskonopka
Currently the best, in terms of seamless, way of doing this is using the P10 midi stuff and triggering clips via midi. I figured out the midi in Max so I have to check it in PD then you could do some modular triggering. Outside of that the best solution is hardware or custom software w/a comp not a microcontroller. I want this to change so bad! Ugh.
okelk
I would use PureData with GEM.

There's a PD library called Pduino that you could use to read gate inputs with an arduino.
playback can be realized with GEM (part of PureData)

This solution would have the advantage that it can run on linux on a rasberry pi which already has an anlogue video output.
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