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crash cymbals
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author crash cymbals
langley
anyone have advice for synthesizing crash cymbals? (i'm talking proper big ones not 808 style).

I have a nord modular which seems to get nowhwere near so i'm looking at euro modules to get me there (hate using samples).

thanks
BugBrand
A sideways approach - contact mics on cymbals is a lot of fun.
Mike Fun
It's got to be one of the most insanely complex things to try to synthesize. Even most samples are awkward sounding depending on the context.

I'm not a fan of imitative synthesis, so I'm tempted to say why bother trying. Record a real cymbal or synthesize something that fills that role but doesn't necessarily sound authentic.
bwhittington
Mike Fun wrote:
I'm not a fan of imitative synthesis, so I'm tempted to say why bother trying. Record a real cymbal or synthesize something that fills that role but doesn't necessarily sound authentic.


I'm amused/bemused by the number of times members here suggest that other people's musical goals aren't worthy aims. I guess I expect people to understand that a modular concept can be used to explore more than blippy bleeps.

A authentic cymbal sound would be a tricky one to synthesize, but I wouldn't fault someone for building an entire system around the goal of trying if that's what amused him.

Cheers,
Brian
Rigo
Maybe you find some useful information here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Just search for cymbal ...

Rigo
Johnisfaster
I don't even own one, but I feel like an e340 would be a good place to start. Maybe e340 being fm'd + some white noise and then run the whole thing through a spring reverb or something, play with the mix. seriously, i just don't get it

It sounds like a fun challenge though, really quite difficult.
Mike Fun
Quote:
I'm amused/bemused by the number of times members here suggest that other people's musical goals aren't worthy aims.


I'm not at all suggesting that langley's goals aren't worthy. Based on the original post, it's hard to tell if they're looking for a practical solution or a synth tutorial. If they're looking for a synth tutorial, your suggestion is awesome.
Johnisfaster
oo... I forgot about ring modulation.. hm..
mojopin
Yeah, just read the SOS stuff. It can be done and I think learning how to do it is a worthy goal. If you understand the fundamentals you can synthesize cymbals no one has heard and pleasantly fool the ear. It just depends how big your modular is but you will have to throw everything at it..that's for sure.
Just me
Wavetable synthesis really helps. But you need to be able to morph the waves. I've got some nice cymbals that way but, they are VERY layered. Trying it purely analog has always been a fail for me. I try it every now and again though. Usually at some point I remember what a salesman from SCI told me once. "Why try to make it sound like an existing instrument. Make it sound like something entirely new." And then I go back to my noises! Please be sure to post sound samples and patch info if you do get a sound that you are looking for. It would be fun for others to try it, also.
Johnisfaster
Just me wrote:
"Why try to make it sound like an existing instrument. Make it sound like something entirely new."


"Why not make it sound like an existing instrument. Make it sound something entirely old."

I like both smile
monroe
langley wrote:


I have a nord modular which seems to get nowhwere near so i'm looking at euro modules to get me there (hate using samples).

The idea that analog synths could or should be used to create realistic acoustic sounds is absurd. That's not what they're for.
antimatter
my approach only, went out and got a cymbal

makes all sorts of sounds
bwhittington
monroe wrote:
The idea that analog synths could or should be used to create realistic acoustic sounds is absurd. That's not what they're for.


You're right, that silly imitative synthesis fad that has existed as long as analog synthesis has is an absurd pursuit. Goodness knows, every synth I've ever purchased has come with a strict rulebook defining what it's for.

PS. http://synthtech.com/demo/440_trumpet.mp3
http://synthtech.com/demo/440_recorder.mp3
stin-g
bwhittington - you rule.
And That Sound on Sound link Rigo posted is amazing! I tried some of that stuff and dang... mostly sounds like aluminum foil being crammed in my ear, but I did get some really cool cymbal sounds, albeit very "electronic" sounding. If I spent two more weeks on it I might get a sound almost as "realistic" as my Vermona! hihi Anybody have a MFB drum-07?

Anyway I hate to clutter this thread when I'm not really offering an answer to the original question, but I love that some of y'all are trying to figure it out and encourage the naysayers to give it a shot. Why wouldn't you? Isn't exploration one of the big reasons we like these complicated expensive cumbersome instruments?
langley
thanks for your comments - i suppose it helps to know its not an easy challenge as i seem to have spent quite a bit of time and not really got past the tr808/kpr77 pfshhhhhh. my goal is to create an electronic kit that feels like standing in front of a live kit and i think i need to move air to get that.
snoop
I`ve created all sorts of cymbals with modular synth. It`s difficult but not impossible. Two ways spring to mind

1. 3 delays i feedback loops with a short noise transient for exciter.
2. 12 oscillators and a lot of filters. The way i made this:


Not the coolest of drumbeats, but the intention was to emulate

more info at www.frodebeats.com
if your interested. All drumbeats and sounds on the homepage is modular synth
giorgio
just popping in to say that synth secrets rules.

maybe the allen strange book can offer some help. I just took a quick look at my PDF copy and didn't find anything, but that doesn't mean it isn't in there..
langley
fantastic work snoop! your site is a revelation and i'm definitely going to explore further. what's the dog called?
megaohm
snoop wrote:
but the intention was to emulate



That was impressive!
The short and long snare was nice!
snoop
langley wrote:
fantastic work snoop! your site is a revelation and i'm definitely going to explore further. what's the dog called?


Thanks! The dog in the modular picture is Ludvig, and the orange guy is Frode
mojopin
Great video! I have seen it before and it inspired me. I needed to know that it was possible to synthesize great cymbals you proved it to me. we're not worthy
snoop
Thanks. I`ve been doing drum synthesis for a full year now (24/7) and i must say that crash cymbals are not really worth spending to much time on. At least when it comes to recreating the real deal. You can come pretty close, but you really end up with a poor imitation.

Metal is really in the realms of advanced digital waveguides, BUT, you can derive very interesting sounds from trying to make crash cymbals, so its still worth the effort methinks. Among other things you get great hihats and metal with medium lenght duration.

Been reading alot of research on metal surfaces. Not for the faint harted! You very, very quickley run out of modules trying to account for everything. As for waveguides - Read up on the research of Dr. Julius Smith if your REALLYREALLYREALLY interested in this stuff.
dequalsrxt
Ah yeah, I've seen/heard that before too - super cool!
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