Clock Emulation- Biological Emulation...

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theantiroman
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Clock Emulation- Biological Emulation...

Post by theantiroman » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:20 am

This is sort of abstract, I'll start it with the most simple version of the question and elaborate if I need to...

Has anyone taken the route of trying to program things based on equations for oscillations in biological systems?

There is a lot of literature that is 'theoretical' in nature that describing the clocks of biological systems in terms of oscillators... wondering if anyone has used this as a starting point, even just something to touch on tangentially as inspiration.

:eek:

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Post by RUMPLEDFORESKIN » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:59 pm

I'd venture to say the Baron's were doing things like this in the 50's/60's though my knowledge on this is very limited.

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:18 pm

Cybernetics: Or, Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine.


Im pretty sure that is the book the barrons read in order to build their circuits.

The ones I've been tossing around are "from clocks to chaos" that models certain biological systems with simple oscillator equations and book about a general theory of 'transitions in nature' being non-linear unpredictable events.

I've found FM to be the closest thing to this, where a small nudge in freq of one of the oscillators is enough to send torrents of changing tones, while sometimes whole ranges of the oscillators frequencies produce no effect.

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:20 pm

Os course the simplest thing is MIC into an AMP with feedback. Once that is patched it just remains to stick things in between the amp/mic zone (pedals, modulars) and affect that feedback.

As in this is going to create a lot of non-linear effects.

As in its a feedback patch.

As in DUH.

:ripbanana:
Last edited by theantiroman on Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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radams
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Post by radams » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:28 pm

I don't know about that - but Stockhausen based a whole bunch of works on phases of time , seasons , natural rhythms and cycles - check out - Sirius , Sternklang and Licht

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:33 pm

I shall check those pieces out.

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radams
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Post by radams » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:37 pm

just a plus - the electronic music from Sirius was done on an EMS Synthi 100 !

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:13 pm

sick, man the sounds the sounds. Seriously we should all be investigating more ideas from the past and making them modern. I remember once, when I was 12-13, I came up with an idea of taking a trombone sample, looping it and speeding it up to make a pure tone -I used to do this on the windows recorder with my voice and random computer wav. files.

Well that is really just stockhausen. So we should all try harder. Dammit! :omg:

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Post by satindas » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:24 pm

Check out the "enneagram" (as taught by G.I.Gurdjieff); all to do with natural rhythms, cycles and processes. Based around the numbers 3 and 7.

The law of 7: The HEPTAPARAPARSHINOKH (x axis)

7 is to do with frequency - 7 notes in the Major Scale (the 8th is the same as the first!) 7 colours in the visible spectrum, 7 electron shells, 7 ages of man...etc


do = 0
re = 1/7 = 0.142857142857....
mi = 2/7 = 0.285714285714...
fa = 3/7 = 0.428571428571...
sol = 4/7 = 0.571428571428...
la = 5/7 = 0.714285714285....
si = 6/7 = 0.857142857142....
do = 1

note that the only numbers not seen in the sequence are 3, 6, and 9.

The law of 3: The TRIMAZIKAMNO (y axis)

3 is the nature of relatedness (+ / - /=, proton/electron/neutron, Bramha,Vishnu/Shiva, Root/Third/Fifth (or whichever three notes used to produce a chord), cycles of breath, sleep, seasons etc) or the "Triad"


EVERYTHING is in oscillation and these numbers are pretty good at describing it.

Gurdjieff uses this system to explain stuff as diverse as personality and the biological processing of food, all within a "musical" framework .
Enjoy
These are bizarre manifestations of untamed high-frequency parasitic oscillations...
www.psycox.co.uk

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:38 pm

Pm me with links to that!

I still haven't recorded my cat but if I could program my RCD to divide clocks with those ratios......

Ah!

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:06 pm

Also @ satindas check this guy out. He was into this sort of stuff and he used it (maybe-maybe not) to program his electronic components...

http://www.jerryhunt.org/huntmus.htm

Some of his explanations are a bit crazy and pretty inspiring insofar as how he talks about using interfaces from electronics, primitive midi shit, to create a series of choices that he could perform with.

I'm actually not doing his interviews justice, just read em!

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Re: Clock Emulation- Biological Emulation...

Post by felixer » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:18 pm

theantiroman wrote:Has anyone taken the route of trying to program things based on equations for oscillations in biological systems?
sure. used a little scheme called 'foxes&rabbits' a lot to mix volumes. it gives you the population amounts of two competing species. simple but effective.
using a ring of osc each fm-ing the next one is like eg the muscles in your heart. an almost autonomous system quite indepent of your brain.
many small animals move around in a 'random walk'. very close to brownian motion. not because they are stupid, but because it has been shown to be an effective way to make sure you eventually cover the whole area. and thus collect the largest amount of food with the biggest chance on mating :mrgreen:
btw stockhausen wrote/made lots of great music. but none of it is literally based on any chaotic scheme/theory. he made his own system, somewhere between determinate/12tone and random/intuitive. check his books. esp 'band' 2 and 4.
don't need midi, don't need keys, just want knobs and cables (all together now ;-)

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:36 am

After having played with the modular for a few weeks now I think it would be easy to use map out analogies from various scientific disciplines into the modular.

Like your fox and rabbit idea which is a classic problem of predator prey relations...

Not sure what would be best for this, I think MAX MSP would work better since its more malleable and one could proabbly just directly transfer coding from a scientific study into a set of max objects...

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:50 am

Stockhausen is just so deep as a source of inspiration. I remember when

I was a kid Iused to mess with that dinky 'windows sound recorder' application on our old PC. I would take a rhythm and pitch it up until it became audio rate, then copy it and make weird collages of audio made from rhythms with the original beats under as a floor. after I started getting into werid music I remember reading a quote from him regarding the duality of tone and rhythm.

Nothing new under the sun eh?

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Post by RealDudes » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:23 pm

this is SMART

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Post by felixer » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:41 pm

theantiroman wrote: Not sure what would be best for this, I think MAX MSP would work
not sure where max is at, nowadays. i still use an old beta version from ircam :mrgreen: great for some things, but not so for others. i mainly use an 'advanced basic' language. because i don't want to get C-sick and :bang: with compilers etc .... but that's just me ....
my quest for the past years has been to get away from the puter and get those ideas working in analog: faster, unlimited multitasking, direct control etc .... but not being a schooled electronics guy either it's been rather slow moving. but at least getting somewhere and happy about the results 8_)
anybody coming up with euromodules in that area has my attention :tu:
otoh i'm looking at arduino etc and thinking that might be a good 'inbetween' ....
theantiroman wrote: Nothing new under the sun eh?
maybe not, but it's also about how you look at existing things in a new way. i'm a bit older so i was slicing away at tape, same thing basically. but what i admire in stockhausen is that he was able to combine all that knowledge and built a unified system where he can freely roam about and fit almost anything with anything else. making amazingly organic constructs with highly abstract ideas.
don't need midi, don't need keys, just want knobs and cables (all together now ;-)

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