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Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 23, 24, 25 ... 27, 28, 29  Next [all]
Author Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?
cptnal
The Derivator is a slope detector. You get gates when the input is rising or falling, moving or stationary. And funnily enough, it's right next to my envelope follower. thumbs up

And nice track colb. I think I spotted a Chronoblob or similar doing some held delays... hmmm.....
colb
cptnal wrote:
...And nice track colb. I think I spotted a Chronoblob or similar doing some held delays... hmmm.....


Thanks for the encouragement smile

The delay is from Disting Mk3. It's the one of the clockable ones - changes it's time without pitch changes. This gives interesting results because it varies from longish delays to _almost_ karplus or granular sounding audio rate repeats.

Rest of the patch was based on two inter-Modulating LFO's, sample and hold, and the comparator part of Rampage to generate the sample clock for the sample and hold.... there was some quantization in there as well... a doepfer oscillator and two adsrs from my a-143-2... and a filter.
colb
I had another go today at a generative chaos type of thing. Seemed to go better this time - at least more like what I was aiming at.
This is built around Rampage using a twin S&H and three clock dividers. There's also a Deopfer Basic VCO a couple of VCA's a couple of filters and the verb from my Behringer mixer.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/colray/chaos-of-mechanical-origin[/s]
cptnal
colb wrote:
I had another go today at a generative chaos type of thing. Seemed to go better this time - at least more like what I was aiming at.
This is built around Rampage using a twin S&H and three clock dividers. There's also a Deopfer Basic VCO a couple of VCA's a couple of filters and the verb from my Behringer mixer.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/colray/chaos-of-mechanical-origin[/s]


applause Very Krellish!
colb
I documented the patch from my last post before I tear it down, so I figured I'd post it in case anyone is interested.
I don't expect it matters what kind of vca's are used. It's primarily about the rampage, s&h and multiple clock dividers. Some of the sound is from the A-106-6 self oscillating and from the Doefer VCO, but they are slave devices in this structure...

cptnal
colb wrote:
I documented the patch from my last post before I tear it down, so I figured I'd post it in case anyone is interested.
I don't expect it matters what kind of vca's are used. It's primarily about the rampage, s&h and multiple clock dividers. Some of the sound is from the A-106-6 self oscillating and from the Doefer VCO, but they are slave devices in this structure...



Very nice! thumbs up

I think I have equivalents of all of those, but I'll have to do some work to map it over. If I get anywhere I'll post the results here.

This is fun!

...and we're back.

I had to watch DivKid's video on the Rampage to work out what was going on. Mr. Green

Two slope detectors - very cool. Unfortunately I only have one, so I improvised the gates from Maths' end-of-whatever. I was also somewhat lacking in the clock divider department, so I used a step sequencer and René (with a single gate on the 16th measure) as the second and third.

I found a sine from the synched oscillator to be more satisfying than a square, and for the filter I'm using the Stereo Dipole, which is in everything since I got it. Bit of delay on one of the voices in the last clip.

So my patch isn't exactly the same as yours, but I had a whole lot of fun trying. Guinness ftw!

[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/mechanical-origins-1[/s]
[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/mechanical-origins-2[/s]
 [s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/mechanical-origins-3[/s]
colb
cptnal wrote:

I think I have equivalents of all of those, but I'll have to do some work to map it over. If I get anywhere I'll post the results here.

This is fun!

...and we're back.

I had to watch DivKid's video on the Rampage to work out what was going on. Mr. Green

Two slope detectors - very cool. Unfortunately I only have one, so I improvised the gates from Maths' end-of-whatever. I was also somewhat lacking in the clock divider department, so I used a step sequencer and René (with a single gate on the 16th measure) as the second and third.

I found a sine from the synched oscillator to be more satisfying than a square, and for the filter I'm using the Stereo Dipole, which is in everything since I got it. Bit of delay on one of the voices in the last clip.

So my patch isn't exactly the same as yours, but I had a whole lot of fun trying. Guinness ftw!



Very nice, particularly the third one - lots of interesting variation.

I seem to have a bit of a thing for clock dividers smile. It's pretty interesting - at least philosophically - to be able to divide an audio rate signal right down to the compositional time scale using two or three of them in series.
I like the doepfer A169-2, it has a primes mode with 2,3,5,7,11 & 13. I was using 5 and 7. It probably doesn't make a lot of difference, but it does add some geek value.
cptnal
Inspired by the Serge Divide-N COM...

Batumi in divide mode
Channel 1's square goes into a sample and hold's trigger ("N")
Channel 2's triangle goes into the sample and hold's input ("divide by N")
Output of the sample and hold goes into:
a) Attenuation for pitch
b) Ladik Derivator to generate a trigger at every "step"
Trigger pings a dual-peak filter whose pitch comes from (a)
The frequency of N and the number of divisions are modulated with random, independent sample and holds

A proof of concept, rather than a "track":
[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/divide-by-b1[/s]

Same patch with quantization, FM, and a bit of delay:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/divide-by-b2[/s]
JakoGreyshire
I just wanted to say that I'm glad the topic of this thread is labeled "Self-Generative"......

I've been seeing people talk about generative this and that and it means different things to different people...

An example is this youtuber.... I messaged him asking what he means by generative, because most of his modular stuff is labeled as Generative... I did not get a response...


This video here is labeled both generative and improvisation....






Then I think that I even heard Lightbath say "generative" in the way that things evolve by itself... etc...

So I looked up the word generative...

adjective:
relating to or capable of production or reproduction: the generative power of the life force.


So anything capable of production can be generative.....

So, this guy in the video above is technically correct in his labeling... his synths and computers are generating sounds and he is improvising what controls he makes...


I guess the lesson I learned here is that I will try to be as clear as possible when I speak descriptions and I will be more flexible when other use descriptions...


I guess I 'm posting this here because I hit these videos, which are great, by this guy thinking I was getting into some self-generative stuff.... I't made me think of this awesome thread... Then I was dissapointed that I didn't get any self generative sounds...

I subbed to him anyway...

confused
Neo
JakoGreyshire wrote:
...

So I looked up the word generative...

adjective:
relating to or capable of production or reproduction: the generative power of the life force.

I like this definition from wikipedia:

Brian Eno used and coined the term "Generative Music" to describe any music that is ever-different and changing, created by a system. The term has since gone on to be used to refer to a wide range of music, from entirely random music mixes created by multiple simultaneous CD playback, through to live rule-based computer composition.
wackelpeter
Broadly narrowed down for simplification, almost all of my patches are self-generating, as i almost never or rarely touch a pot or switch when i play them. I only dial in the desired range and then let it go… The only Thing i touch is whenever i have some spare free time and the urge to do so is my Keyboard, mostly just transposing one of my generative patches.

Well there is some acute lazyness on the side of the human Operator interface in my case (mostly due to the fact, that i can't play properly on a Keyboard and secondly i destroyed many patches while trying to optimize them)

As in general over 90% of my patches are done this way i would like to call them some kind of automated music. Self generating they become, in terms of major changes to their character/sound when i add a certain amount of "unpredictable" variables like s&h and chaos Generator modules.
If asked, i would say i'm not sure how much of change would be needed to not just call it generative, automatic music and instead call it something with a chaotic/self-generating vibe.
I guess that's a floating definition which each one would tend to Interpret slightly different, depending on his personal preferences.

But anyway this is one of my favourite threads here on muffs, lot of great ideas and Things to try out. Keep it coming ladies and gentlemen. smile
pugix
wackelpeter wrote:
Broadly narrowed down for simplification, almost all of my patches are self-generating, as i almost never or rarely touch a pot or switch when i play them. I only dial in the desired range and then let it go… The only Thing i touch is whenever i have some spare free time and the urge to do so is my Keyboard, mostly just transposing one of my generative patches.

Well there is some acute lazyness on the side of the human Operator interface in my case (mostly due to the fact, that i can't play properly on a Keyboard and secondly i destroyed many patches while trying to optimize them)

As in general over 90% of my patches are done this way i would like to call them some kind of automated music. Self generating they become, in terms of major changes to their character/sound when i add a certain amount of "unpredictable" variables like s&h and chaos Generator modules.
If asked, i would say i'm not sure how much of change would be needed to not just call it generative, automatic music and instead call it something with a chaotic/self-generating vibe.
I guess that's a floating definition which each one would tend to Interpret slightly different, depending on his personal preferences.

But anyway this is one of my favourite threads here on muffs, lot of great ideas and Things to try out. Keep it coming ladies and gentlemen. smile


I like to call my generative stuff 'automatic music', though I don't like either of those terms very much. I don't know what to call it.

For quite a few years, as I had been doing this sort of thing, I had mixed feelings about it. Was I being lazy? Self-critical of my improvisations? Feeling too much the urge to tweak during a listening? Well, now I've decided that this is what I do: no-hands-on generative, automatic sounds. And, as a result of this, I've been spending more time patching, tweaking, and then listening for longer periods (at least ten minutes) between tweaks. And I work on a composition for sometimes weeks, before I feel it's ready to present. I make recordings while I'm working on something, but those are not the product. The composition can only be heard live. (I'll be presenting a few of them in a public venue in a couple of weeks.)
wackelpeter
pugix wrote:


I like to call my generative stuff 'automatic music', though I don't like either of those terms very much. I don't know what to call it.

For quite a few years, as I had been doing this sort of thing, I had mixed feelings about it. Was I being lazy? Self-critical of my improvisations? Feeling too much the urge to tweak during a listening? Well, now I've decided that this is what I do: no-hands-on generative, automatic sounds. And, as a result of this, I've been spending more time patching, tweaking, and then listening for longer periods (at least ten minutes) between tweaks. And I work on a composition for sometimes weeks, before I feel it's ready to present. I make recordings while I'm working on something, but those are not the product. The composition can only be heard live. (I'll be presenting a few of them in a public venue in a couple of weeks.)


Well i don't often record and don't perform aynthing in public, but otherwise i would say this Comes close to what i think/feel/do...

One interesting Thing is, that i have a great love for "experimental" music but in most cases catch myself while patching up rather "normal" beat orientated stuff. Though it's all automated, via switches, s&h, and variable slope lengths, different divisions to trigger those, etc. but it still resembles your average beat orientated electronic music somehow. Did also more recently something, more like a Sketch, using mainly the master Clock and it's divisions plus a self oscillating filter as Sound source, which wold have been possibly okay if done properly.
And yesterday i made some of my attempts to perform on my Keyboard and realized again, that i'm only a wizzard of missed notes and keys… Coordination of my fingers and musical intution isn't one of my strengths, so i'll better stick with the synth doing this for me, while Relaxing with a glass of wine, smoking a cigarette (these are some of my bigger talents) and let the System do all the hard work for me... hihi
cptnal
Less talk, more patching. Mr. Green

Here we have two TZFM oscillators, each fed a 4-note sequence clocked by a cycling function. The outgoing audio is divided way down and clocks another function which modulates the first two. Audio and CV are both fed into my shiny new A138m and distributed around the patch.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/matrices[/s]
pugix
cptnal wrote:
Less talk, more patching. Mr. Green

Here we have two TZFM oscillators, each fed a 4-note sequence clocked by a cycling function. The outgoing audio is divided way down and clocks another function which modulates the first two. Audio and CV are both fed into my shiny new A138m and distributed around the patch.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/matrices[/s]


Interesting type of feedback, having the audio divided down. How did you do that division?
cptnal
pugix wrote:
cptnal wrote:
Less talk, more patching. Mr. Green

Here we have two TZFM oscillators, each fed a 4-note sequence clocked by a cycling function. The outgoing audio is divided way down and clocks another function which modulates the first two. Audio and CV are both fed into my shiny new A138m and distributed around the patch.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/matrices[/s]


Interesting type of feedback, having the audio divided down. How did you do that division?


I actually got the idea from colb's patch above. What I'm doing is taking the audio and running it through as many dividers as I can lay my hands on (sometimes employing the last output of trigger sequencers) to get gates well into the sub-audio range. The end result is more triggers when the pitch is high and fewer when it's low.

(Now that I come to describe it like that, I wonder whether there's an easier way to achieve this... hmmm..... )
colb
cptnal wrote:
Less talk, more patching. Mr. Green

Here we have two TZFM oscillators...


Very cool. a bit brassy, a bit whalesong...
colb
cptnal wrote:

I actually got the idea from colb's patch above. What I'm doing is taking the audio and running it through as many dividers as I can lay my hands on (sometimes employing the last output of trigger sequencers) to get gates well into the sub-audio range. The end result is more triggers when the pitch is high and fewer when it's low.

(Now that I come to describe it like that, I wonder whether there's an easier way to achieve this... hmmm..... )


One motivation for this approach was the idea of trying to achieve something similar to bytebeat processes, but in an analogue system. The basic concept is that there is no literal distinction between sound cycles, notes, 'song' structure... Just a difference in scale. Ideally the result would be some form of sound that exhibits self-similarity at different scales (haven't got there yet. might not even be possible).
In bytebeats it's achieved by shifting, masking, adding, and performing various other bitwise operations and 2's complement arithmetic on a 16 or 32 bit counter, and outputting the lowest 8 bits as an audio stream.
The only way I could think of to generate a process with a similar multi-level temporal scaling thing was to use clock dividers.

There might be an easier way to achieve some of the results, but the nice thing about multiple dividers is that you can use any/all of the different outputs at different time scales to effect the output.

I suspect that there could be some mileage in applying logic operations and switching to the divider outputs in the feedback path. I have a logic module, but it's currently out of action, so I need to get that up and running and do some more experiments.
pugix
colb wrote:
cptnal wrote:

I actually got the idea from colb's patch above. What I'm doing is taking the audio and running it through as many dividers as I can lay my hands on (sometimes employing the last output of trigger sequencers) to get gates well into the sub-audio range. The end result is more triggers when the pitch is high and fewer when it's low.

(Now that I come to describe it like that, I wonder whether there's an easier way to achieve this... hmmm..... )


One motivation for this approach was the idea of trying to achieve something similar to bytebeat processes, but in an analogue system. The basic concept is that there is no literal distinction between sound cycles, notes, 'song' structure... Just a difference in scale. Ideally the result would be some form of sound that exhibits self-similarity at different scales (haven't got there yet. might not even be possible).


What's bytebeat?

Mannequins Just Friends is a module designed with the idea to relate audio and control signals in similar structures at different scales.

Another approach to getting triggers with rate proportionate to an audio frequency would be to use a pitch-to-voltage converter on the audio to control an LFO. I don't know offhand of a specific pitch-to-voltage converter module though.
colb
pugix wrote:

What's bytebeat?

This is a reasonably good introduction:
http://canonical.org/~kragen/bytebeat/
cptnal
colb wrote:
cptnal wrote:
Less talk, more patching. Mr. Green

Here we have two TZFM oscillators...


Very cool. a bit brassy, a bit whalesong...


Thanks for the feedback. Guinness ftw!

And speaking of feedback (see what I did there? hihi ), here's another one I'd like to share...

Probably a no-brainer to anyone who owns these modules, but I've just got myself a A138m and am wondering how I got along for so long without one. I may buy another. w00t

Take the sines from Batumi and put them into the inputs of the A138m
Take the outputs of the A138m into the FM of each channel of Batumi
Batumi's variable shape outputs can modulate around your patch
Batumi's square outs into another mixer and off to a quantizer for pitch

A pretty simple patch, but quite efficient in the variety you can get for so few basic ingredients. This is fun!

Right now I have Telharmonic going into Stereo Dipole into Morphagene, and I'm too blissed out to post it on SoundCloud. Lotsa Love
pugix
I took automatic music out to let people listen.
http://pugix.com/synth/presenting-automatic-music/

cptnal
pugix wrote:
I took automatic music out to let people listen.
http://pugix.com/synth/presenting-automatic-music/



Thanks for posting. I enjoyed that greatly. thumbs up
gis_sweden
pugix wrote:
I took automatic music out to let people

I'm listening now. Thank you It's peanut butter jelly time!
colb
This one's a bit more musical.

The core is two Doepfer oscs (osc1 = 110-2 and osc 2 = 110-1), Osc 2 is synced to Osc 1, then its output is inverted (with some offset) and sampled using an S&H triggered by osc 1. The resulting value is Quantised and used as the pitch CV for osc1. The pitch CV for osc 2 comes from a quantized sampled LFO (rampage).

The triggers for the sample and holds come from heavily divided down osc1 output.

So basically, a feedback system. There is some filtering, Envelopes, and a Disting delay for some added texture...

[s]https://soundcloud.com/colray/as-it-unfolds[/s]
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