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Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 11, 12, 13  Next [all]
Author Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?
gis_sweden
One alone "q-relative" sounds - not that interesting seriously, i just don't get it
But here is a sample.
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/414730/

EDIT:
The "Q-Relative" can be quiet for minutes. Silence is golden...
Actually silence is rarely occurring in modular music. (hides)

My Q-Relative consists of
VCLFO: Doepfer A-147-2 VCDLFO
S/H: AS RS-40
SLEW: Make Noise Function
VCO: Hexinverter Jupiter Storm (not in the recording obove...)
resynthesize
great thread, i'll throw my humble offering onto the pile. This is all being driven by the klee sequencer feeding into the instruo harmanoig being clocked very, very slowly with lots of random cross modulation and triggers to lots of cv. the whole mix is processed through the l1 microcompressor to give the pumping/breathing sound. no manual tweaking at all!

[s]https://soundcloud.com/resynthesize/autocomposition[/s]
pugix
gis_sweden wrote:
pugix wrote:
I don't understand how the labels on the block correspond to the internals. Is S&H actually in the Q-Relative block? It looks almost as if it is external and supplying the CV to the Slew

Oops you are right! Thx! S/H are triggered with the SQR from LFO. Here is an updated picture (beta version :-)


pugix wrote:
the VCO and the VC-LFO (the red line), which would match the LFO CV IN on the block. What does RISE AND FALL IN go to?

Yep, also unclear. Good. Look at picture above.

Good work as editor thumbs up

Is it more clear now???


Thanks. I still don't understand why the block LFO CV IN and RISE AND FALL IN show as external inputs, since internally it seems that they are connected together (and to the VCO CV), coming from the S&H output. Can you add the external inputs to your block diagram?

Couple of other observations: I take it that the input to the S&H is noise, meaning that the output is random. I avoid randomness in the Quantussy Cell, by sampling ramp or triangle waves from other cells.

Secondly, since the LFO, VCO, and Slew Rate are all driven by the same S&H output, they will be correlated. Whenever a S&H output feeds back to its own clock rate, the result is you get a quick series of samples until a low value causes a long pause between. If you use a rate limited S&H (where the output of the S&H is mixed back with the input), then the output step size is reduced because the next output value is relative to the current one. That would make it less random.

Thirdly, if you're using the Slew output as an envelope, then depending on whether the rate is increased or decreased by the RISE AND FALL CV IN, there will be short high notes, or short low notes.
Dcramer
Pugix! This whole thing is brilliant!
I really need some time with your text and my system to explore this. we're not worthy
gis_sweden
Hmmm.
Now maybe I understand what you mean. You can patch up one “Single Q-Relative” alone. I will be an autonomous “music” generator. Then it should be described like this:


But when using multiple “Q-Relatives” and let them work together they should maybe be pictured like this:


Here is a link to a .vcv file:
https://app.box.com/s/qz6ld07g4mpzd132eve5qsdk0ruxh6k6
You need Audible Instruments and Befaco. I’m not yet 100% friend with the Befaco Slew… There should be a S/H in the Fundamental IMO. And here is a screen shot of the file result.


pugix wrote:
I take it that the input to the S&H is noise

This is random, but...

pugix wrote:
Secondly, since the LFO, VCO, and Slew Rate are all driven by the same S&H output, they will be correlated.

Yes! Thats the thing with this patch. And this "thing" makes it more musical. Playing together.

pugix wrote:
Thirdly, if you're using the Slew output as an envelope, then depending on whether the rate is increased or decreased by the RISE AND FALL CV IN, there will be short high notes, or short low notes.

Yep, correct. Invert the signal if you want :-) But this is meant to be a simple patch, even thou I dont yet have the right modules. (But I do have a several looping envelopes with input for rise and fall and EOC etc. Very usable. I have 2 dual quantizer. I could use that as S/H. Maybe I will be able to make my own "Q-Relative x 3 patch". I'm working on another patch idea to. But that have to wait. I have taken up far too much space here now zombie )
Shledge
I posted this on another thread:
Quote:
Using clock dividers as toggle switches/flip flops, which is useful for:
- muting/unmuting sounds via CV
- advancing sequential switches once every start/stop, so you can trigger different melodies at different parts
- making basic conditionals eg. if 4 triggers are sent, turn on CV to enable a sequence
- tie it with a logic module to have more advanced conditionals like if/else statements, boolean logic etc. to trigger events. For example, if two gates match, send a trigger to clock divider which will then send a gate to turn on a sequence.
- using the above, you can make truly generative music in not just melodies, but composition too in terms of generating specific parts, rests etc.
pugix
gis_sweden wrote:
You can patch up one “Single Q-Relative” alone. I will be an autonomous “music” generator. Then it should be described like this:


But when using multiple “Q-Relatives” and let them work together they should maybe be pictured like this:




That's clarifies it all. Thanks! I am going to experiment with multiple Q-Relative blocks. I'll post about it on pugix.com.
pugix
I did something, sort of based on the Q-Relative idea.

http://pugix.com/synth/q-relative-patch/
Dcramer
I still need to test this cool little Q-relative patch but in the meantime I’ve been sidetracked by a variation in which I’m modulating the rise and fall of a Function Generator with a CV recording of the same Function Generator that repeats at different rates, stretching and compressing (by modulating playback rate) and then records another CV loop after a given number of cycles.
I’ve been able to get both the Disting delay and Brainseed to operate as the CV recorder.
I’ll post details if I start to get something interesting. w00t
gis_sweden
pugix wrote:
I did something, sort of based on the Q-Relative idea.

Nice presentation pugix. Thanks a lot for your help. As you write, you diagram is a little hard to follow.

Each Q-Relative shall have its own S/H or quantizer clocked from the Q-Relative block CVLFO.

The "thing" is that all Q-Relative blocks share the same random cv from the mixer. A random cv that controls both LFO speed and the slew.

When this conditions are, the oscillators will follow each other like fishes in a shoal. As controlled by some living thing...

Here is my first "real" Q-Relative patch (not on a virtual modular). Instead of CVLFO and slews I use looping envelopes (Intellijel Quadra + expander). I use one S/H (AS RS-40) and two quantizers (Doepfer A-156). As oscillators I use Hexinverter Jupiter Storm (3 osc). Se picture on video.

Now I will try calibrate the patch so that the Q-Relative idea is clear.
gis_sweden
Me again... Mr. Green
Here is a 2nd recording of a Q-Relative patch.
gis_sweden
Just one more (hides)
Promise to unpatch now...
gis_sweden
What have I done? Is it some sort of unstable flip flop patch?
(I neeeed more stackables!!! help )
panfriedcharlie
Turing Machine in combination with Volts and quantization can get you some really interesting duophonic random melodies.

EoR/EoC from Maths in combination with a clock divider and sequential switch can get really complex sequences of phasing triggers that are controllable in any number of ways.

Speaking of Maths, the logic mixer (AND/OR/SUM) can combine modulated CVs in a way that work really nicely with VCAs for simply controlling volume or filter cutoff.
cptnal
gis_sweden wrote:
What have I done? Is it some sort of unstable flip flop patch?
(I neeeed more stackables!!! help )


Fun indeed. applause

Which logic outs are you tapping?
gis_sweden
cptnal wrote:
Which logic outs are you tapping?

The achieve the flip flip effect I think you should try or and nor...
Try different combinations. I'm not 100% sure what I used seriously, i just don't get it
I have a bartonmusicalcircuits dual logic (DIY). You change logic with a
potentiometer and there are no clear intervals when you change logic.
But other than that it works fine.
cptnal
panfriedcharlie wrote:
Turing Machine in combination with Volts and quantization can get you some really interesting duophonic random melodies.

EoR/EoC from Maths in combination with a clock divider and sequential switch can get really complex sequences of phasing triggers that are controllable in any number of ways.

Speaking of Maths, the logic mixer (AND/OR/SUM) can combine modulated CVs in a way that work really nicely with VCAs for simply controlling volume or filter cutoff.


Nice first post. Welcome! thumbs up
pugix
gis_sweden wrote:
cptnal wrote:
Which logic outs are you tapping?

The achieve the flip flip effect I think you should try or and nor...
Try different combinations. I'm not 100% sure what I used seriously, i just don't get it
I have a bartonmusicalcircuits dual logic (DIY). You change logic with a
potentiometer and there are no clear intervals when you change logic.
But other than that it works fine.


Thanks for that patch video and diagram! I'll be looking at a Pico Logic module now. Or two. smile
jmila
I don't think I saw any love for the SSF Ultra Random here, but I really like using it in generative patches. I find it useful to have a clocked and an unclocked S&H right there. Also, I'm constantly discovering new things using logic... here's a great mylarmelodies video about the power of logic.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DulDZSsMUpY

And... a DIY super sloth? I haven't built one yet but they seem really fun!
AW198
Recently discovered that turning on and off fast sequences with an LFO which has the rate modulated by a random source is a good way to get a combination of note runs and single notes
gis_sweden
jmila wrote:
And... a DIY super sloth? I haven't built one yet but they seem really fun!

Agree! I have 2 regular Sloths. Will probably build a slow one in the future.

But I have increased the number of sample and holds in my rack!
I blame pugix Mr. Green
Now I know you can use them for more than "just random". I'm learning.
(I will search for someone willing to sell me A-147 AND A-148.)
Quantussyfication
The short recording has 2 quantussy cells (and a Sloth).
[s]https://soundcloud.com/gis_sweden/i-need[/s]
pugix
gis_sweden wrote:
jmila wrote:
And... a DIY super sloth? I haven't built one yet but they seem really fun!

Agree! I have 2 regular Sloths. Will probably build a slow one in the future.

But I have increased the number of sample and holds in my rack!
I blame pugix Mr. Green
Now I know you can use them for more than "just random". I'm learning.
(I will search for someone willing to sell me A-147 AND A-148.)
Quantussyfication
The short recording has 2 quantussy cells (and a Sloth).
[s]https://soundcloud.com/gis_sweden/i-need[/s]


Nice one. applause

If you have fewer sample and holds, you can still make Quantussy-like cells by leaving out the S&H that samples the CV for its own cell. That way you only need one S&H per 'cell', and the cell is essentially a clocked sample and hold with a ramp or triangle output too. Put an odd number of these in a ring and there you go.
gis_sweden
pugix wrote:
If you have fewer sample and holds, you can still make Quantussy-like cells by leaving out the S&H that samples the CV for its own cell. That way you only need one S&H per 'cell', and the cell is essentially a clocked sample and hold with a ramp or triangle output too. Put an odd number of these in a ring and there you go.

Thanks for listening and guiding thumbs up
Tried the light-quantussy-cheat-hint. Didnt have much time today, and I think I did something wrong...
But when I injected some "outside" CV thing happened. Generative Patch Of Today.
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/417128/
I like the woody bass sound. #AbsoluteNoQuantizer
You keep writing about using an odd number of cells. I don't understand why an odd number should be better...?
croute
Here my last self generating patch...i just change the pitch from my 10 baby sequencer wich change the FM of my 2 Doepfer VCO
[/img]https://youtu.be/BZTRDPBEOlI
gis_sweden
Please do this at home :-)

https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/417472/
4 cross modulated/connected looping envelopes phasing in and out of some sort of equalibrium.
Cross connected in pairs... Lot of spring reverb...

https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/417473/
3 chain connected looping envelopes slowly finding a rhythm. At the start of the recording I set the tree envelopes at random loop length. Slowly they work their way to a more simple rhythm. Why? At about 2 minutes the rhythm is rather short phrase.

(Right now I have another rhythm slowly finding its inner form... Beeping in the background... Hmmm, I think it has found it's form now thumbs up )
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