Plan B direct buy

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, Joe., analogdigital, infradead, lisa, parasitk, plord

Post Reply
User avatar
astroschnautzer
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:58 am
Location: Finland

Post by astroschnautzer » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:17 am

plan b customer care and buisness seems to get worse and worse everyday, weird that somebody wants to run a buisness like this, I can`t see plan b lasting for long like this...I am personally not buying anything from plan b anymore with so much bad experience formyself + all that I have read from the internet.

User avatar
mono-poly
Le Cheff
Posts: 5423
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:40 pm
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands

Post by mono-poly » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:46 am

There is so much other great stuff people.
It's not the end off the wordl.
There is a very nice manifacture who does blue colored modules witch are way better build and cost around the same.
The farad is the captain of my print.

http://www.mono-poly.nl
http://www.noodlebar.org

WTB blue lantern purple vco

Yohda
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:21 am

Post by Yohda » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:09 am

There is so much other great stuff people
So true!

Why do you keep on bashing Plan B?

I just can't understand...

Peace anyway...

Sound
Common Wiggler
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:50 pm

Post by Sound » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:03 pm

Yohda wrote: Why do you keep on bashing Plan B?
viewtopic.php?t=3300&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

User avatar
A Dingleberry Monstrosity
eat the kids first
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Virginia

Post by A Dingleberry Monstrosity » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:17 pm

Yohda wrote:Why do you keep on bashing Plan B?
from the "maybe buy from cyndustries" thread.
ach_gott wrote:Well, if I were to summarize...

Peter's problems go back to the Milton/early Plan B days. He pledged to modify/repair some stuff and, by his own admission, he failed to follow through on some of that.

Once he was distributed through Analogue Haven, he was able to distribute new product, the vast majority of which was fine. As he expanded he had some QA issues, some of which he addressed, but that which he didn't is being brought up with the old stuff now.

When AH split into two halves, he housed his operation at Noisebug. Things seemed to flow smoothly from there, but it's hard for anyone who has been following the bust and boom of B to want to commit resources to the artist that still hasn't mailed one, one! piece of equipment to Norman F in all these years even thought the work is said to have been completed.

For whatever reason, Peter just isn't willing to work with some members of the community to put these issues to bed. And maybe there's another side to this. I can't imagine that it's terribly favorable to Peter, but maybe when he takes some abuse he retreats or sets the problem aside. Not terribly business-like or responsible, but maybe that's the way it goes.

According to his email group, he has five or six people (probably part time) helping him out. If he has any sense, he's taking a couple of weeks and deploying his resources to knock off these problems. Maybe he has some shipping boxes for the long suffering clientelle and will then turn the business around and return to building on his obviously amazing talents. The problem seems to be with Elby (who is owed a huge, paid-for order) and six or seven [known] customers that have outstanding problems.

On the other hand, if his silence is a retreat, if he isn't willing to reconcile with the jilted who have called him out, then the business is finished. The problem has reached its critical mass.

User avatar
xpander
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:24 pm
Location: los gatos, california

Post by xpander » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:27 pm

damn, i'm glad i went with Plan A. but it gives my bank account a sad.

Norman_Phay

Post by Norman_Phay » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:03 pm

but it's hard for anyone who has been following the bust and boom of B to want to commit resources to the artist that still hasn't mailed one, one! piece of equipment to Norman F in all these years even thought the work is said to have been completed.
I'm avoiding adding to this unless Mr Grenader himself decides to contribute, but to be fair/accurate/whatever, I have to point out that I did receive my first shipment (deposit july '04 balance oct '05 received sept '07) it's the second order I haven't yet received, 17 months & 2 weeks on...

User avatar
Suburban Bather
Miami Flesh
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Waldorf, MD

Post by Suburban Bather » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:17 pm

Norman_Phay wrote: I'm avoiding adding to this unless Mr Grenader himself decides to contribute, but to be fair/accurate/whatever, I have to point out that I did receive my first shipment (deposit july '04 balance oct '05 received sept '07) it's the second order I haven't yet received, 17 months & 2 weeks on...
Fuck that! For a while I was looking forward to sending my $$ towards Plan B, but after reading all the crap posted here, I'm so over whatever cool modules Plan B has to offer. I'm happy with my M13, but other than that, Plan B pretty much no longer exists in my book. In Euro land, Harvestman, Make Noise, and MFB FTW!!!!!! I would include STG as well, but not all of his products are available in Euro format.
Heavy Lids

User avatar
dougcl
Number 6
Posts: 4021
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:04 am
Location: Portland OR

Post by dougcl » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:28 pm

It's a shame that you would avoid Plan B altogether. Just buy through a distributor. I've had no problems with any of the distributors.

User avatar
brandon daniel
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:38 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by brandon daniel » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:37 pm

xpander wrote:damn, i'm glad i went with Plan A. but it gives my bank account a sad.
Hey, southbay wigglers! Do I know you?
MOAR EURO

User avatar
REwire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1959
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:30 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Post by REwire » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:43 pm

I've known Peter for years now and have come to realize he is a musician at heart who builds his modules for himself as well as others. His combativiness, flakeyness, insecurity and creativity are those of an LA musician. Peter's modules are his music and he obsesses over them, revises them, defends them, accepts them with flaws and all the things we do with our music. But just as artists make bad business managers, Peter has F'd up whenever he tried to be both creator and distributor. I see a commonality of those who had major problems dealing with him as an individual, rather than the company, which for the most part should have stayed as a supplier to Analogue Haven and Noisebug. Hell, I live a mile away from him and I still never trusted anything not bought at AH or Noisebug and knew a custom job would take forever. He still has a half assembled TB-303 of mine for 3 years never finished and I pretty much don't expect anything. It's like having Kurt Cobain manage your stock portfolio. :doh:

I know he's got even bigger distribution plans coming so those who want to boycott due to his bad behavior are welcome to do so but I still see a big difference between the genius of his ideas and the faultiness of his personality and business sense and know that his successfully produced modules are tops in this format and you'd be missing out to ignore them.

What's amusing lately is his current largest thrashing on the net is while he hasn't been reading or posting. It's almost like everyone was afraid to really vent while he was on the prowl.

Dan
Last edited by REwire on Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

droolmaster0

Post by droolmaster0 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:43 pm

after my experience (see ah thread, and another here), both in apparently losing forever a $2,000 + item, being thrashed publicly, and ludicrously, by Peter, and dealing with his beyond horrendous communication and lies for many months, I would recommend very, very strongly that people not do direct business with him. It's a crapshoot. That is very evident, I think, from the large numbers of complaints that are popping up all over the place.

User avatar
jonkull
Lowest Common Denominator Patcher
Posts: 2506
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: Burbank, CA

Post by jonkull » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:52 pm

I feel bad for the people that have had a hard time with him but I've had no bad dealings with him. He usually responds to emails quickly and has always been pleasant to me. I knew he'd be traveling last month and figure I'll get the M32 when it comes. No big deal. My wife and the baby have been sucking up all my music time anyway so even if there was an M32 waiting for me at home I wouldn't have time to use it anyway.

User avatar
Muff Wiggler
wait, what?
Posts: 7815
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Muff Wiggler » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:26 pm

REwire wrote:What's amusing lately is his current largest thrashing on the net is while he hasn't been reading or posting. It's almost like everyone was afraid to really vent while he was on the prowl
that's so funny I had to quote it :lol:

User avatar
jonkull
Lowest Common Denominator Patcher
Posts: 2506
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: Burbank, CA

Post by jonkull » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:33 pm

How did that happen anyway? It started out with such an innocent question..."has anyone on here ordered anything from Plan B direct yet?" 8 pages later here we are.

Norman_Phay

Post by Norman_Phay » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:33 pm

I had no idea he was away, rewire, I was wondering why he hadn't come in on this, all guns blazing TBH.

User avatar
brandon daniel
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:38 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by brandon daniel » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:55 pm

REwire wrote: What's amusing lately is his current largest thrashing on the net is while he hasn't been reading or posting. It's almost like everyone was afraid to really vent while he was on the prowl.
Actually, I'd imagine it's more to do with folks who are currently out money, gear, or both get more worried when Peter goes off the wire and stops responding to them.

It's a shame he can't find a way to organize his business in such a manner as to be able to afford either external distributors or an in-house fellow to manage the business side of things. Peter is a classic creative personality, for all the good and bad that this entails. Ideally, he could stick to designing new modules all day and let others handle manufacturing, QA, shipping, and customer support.

For what it's worth, he's always come through for me eventually, but I know others have had other, less pleasant, experiences.

That said, I enjoy his designs, and I'm glad to have the option to purchase them, even if it takes an extended period of time to receive an order. I hope everyone who has an outstanding problem with him can get their grievances resolved in an amicable manner, we'll all be better for it.
MOAR EURO

User avatar
wetterberg
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 7673
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:31 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark.

Post by wetterberg » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:03 pm

A Dingleberry Monstrosity wrote:
Yohda wrote:Why do you keep on bashing Plan B?
from the "maybe buy from cyndustries" thread.
ach_gott wrote:Well, if I were to summarize...

Peter's problems go back to the Milton/early Plan B days. He pledged to modify/repair some stuff and, by his own admission, he failed to follow through on some of that.

Once he was distributed through Analogue Haven, he was able to distribute new product, the vast majority of which was fine. As he expanded he had some QA issues, some of which he addressed, but that which he didn't is being brought up with the old stuff now.

When AH split into two halves, he housed his operation at Noisebug. Things seemed to flow smoothly from there, but it's hard for anyone who has been following the bust and boom of B to want to commit resources to the artist that still hasn't mailed one, one! piece of equipment to Norman F in all these years even thought the work is said to have been completed.

For whatever reason, Peter just isn't willing to work with some members of the community to put these issues to bed. And maybe there's another side to this. I can't imagine that it's terribly favorable to Peter, but maybe when he takes some abuse he retreats or sets the problem aside. Not terribly business-like or responsible, but maybe that's the way it goes.

According to his email group, he has five or six people (probably part time) helping him out. If he has any sense, he's taking a couple of weeks and deploying his resources to knock off these problems. Maybe he has some shipping boxes for the long suffering clientelle and will then turn the business around and return to building on his obviously amazing talents. The problem seems to be with Elby (who is owed a huge, paid-for order) and six or seven [known] customers that have outstanding problems.

On the other hand, if his silence is a retreat, if he isn't willing to reconcile with the jilted who have called him out, then the business is finished. The problem has reached its critical mass.
it would also seem like there's a significant amount of people with faulty products from Plan B - these can't be avoided by buying through a distributor AND if you do return your product for repairs you can't be guaranteed communication or, indeed, a returned product at all, as per the other comments.

User avatar
dkcg
I pity the fool w/o enough VCAs
Posts: 9138
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:35 pm
Location: LA

Post by dkcg » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:04 pm

Norman_Phay wrote:I had no idea he was away, rewire, I was wondering why he hadn't come in on this, all guns blazing TBH.
Perhaps he realized that those who have made up their minds to hate on Peter and write off PlanB, yet spend time complaining, can't have their minds changed. It could just lead to personal attacks and anger on both sides.

Artists make horrible businessmen, I had my own business for a few years, would have been much shorter if I had to deal with the clients all the time.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, that's life.

But paid orders not filled sucks....that is another story.

I, for one, would hate to see any modular company close doors. Imagine it's your own baby (business) that you had a passion for even before it was a company...

User avatar
jonkull
Lowest Common Denominator Patcher
Posts: 2506
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: Burbank, CA

Post by jonkull » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:31 pm

dkcg wrote:Artists make horrible businessmen, I had my own business for a few years, would have been much shorter if I had to deal with the clients all the time.
Creative people certainly do make horrible businessmen. I had my own business for a few years as well...and I was a shit businessman (and not much of a people person) so I got someone to help me with day to day bullshit (phone calls, emails, schedules, etc.) so I could concentrate on being creative. If it wasn't for that I probably would have gone out of business sooner.

User avatar
dougcl
Number 6
Posts: 4021
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:04 am
Location: Portland OR

Post by dougcl » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:44 pm

dkcg wrote: But paid orders not filled sucks....that is another story.
Indeed this is a minimum requirement, even for creative geniuses.

User avatar
chinard
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2416
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:57 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by chinard » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:17 pm

A wise man once said "I pitty the fool" and i think that holds true for my opinion of plan b.

He has some great designs and i am 95% satisfied with all the modules i own from him.
Great designs, but he's lousy at running a business and by the looks of it he probably hired strategically shaven monkeys to do his assembly and QC work.
If peter is going to get through this, he needs to hire a business manager and PR consultant QUICKLY!
It appears that every supplier has dropped him and he has alienated every single online community. At this point i don't even know if damage control is even possible.

From the perspective of a very very distant spectator with no actual inside knowledge it appears that things REALLY started to go to hell shortly after the cliff jacks fiasco, and the rather unpleasant details about what happened to his mother.
I dont know if any of this is related but i have my suspicions that the later broke his spirits in a pretty major way.

So, yeah.. As a fellow fuckup, i feel sorry for him, and i hope he gets his shit together but i am not going to hold my breath for it.
Fortunately i managed to horde almost all the plan b modules i was interested in, so for future stuff, its pretty much going to be DIY or some of the brilliant stuff made by some of the smaller module makers here who AREN'T acting like Adam Henry's

my $0.02/oct

User avatar
ach_gott
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:47 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by ach_gott » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:29 pm

dkcg wrote: Perhaps he realized that those who have made up their minds to hate on Peter and write off PlanB, yet spend time complaining, can't have their minds changed. It could just lead to personal attacks and anger on both sides.
I hope not. There isn't any reason why he can't resolve this by taking care of those who have outstanding problems and doing a short mea culpa. He did this a while back, posting his own bad trader message on AH. He put in some smart QA measures, too, when there were some complaints.

There may be some "hating" going on here, but many of the complaints had substance and no one starting to invest in thousands of dollars of new equipment should ignore these when making a purchase. I can use a soldering iron, so I can fix stuff if it goes bad; I cannot have a few hundred dollars go toddling off. (In full disclosure, I've only ever bought Plan B from NB and never had a problem, I'm merely articulating my concerns about deepening my commitment.)

But it's not like Peter can't restore confidence in his firm. He just needs to batton the hatches and focus on turning this stuff around.
I, for one, would hate to see any modular company close doors. Imagine it's your own baby (business) that you had a passion for even before it was a company...
I would, too. Plan B was becoming the leader in the Eurorack format and it would be a shame if a small number of festering problems derailed his vision. I'm a flakey musician, too, so when I have to get shit done, I make a list right down to the smallest task and check the line items off as I complete them. Very satisfying.

Mr. Grenader just needs to decide that he wants to get it done. I'm rooting for him.

phaedra
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 371
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:28 am
Location: Germany

Post by phaedra » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:36 pm

I apologize this processing, but here is the original text of the mail I got on 07.02.2009 and I had the confidence to pay:
---------------
Your M32 will be ready to ship Monday. Please send $270 plus $15 shipping via paypal to orders at ear-group.net and we'll get it out as soon as that is processed. Thank you so much for your interest in Plan B.
---------------
Also the last words I read in this case! Reading the words "only 5 modules(M32) are not shipped yet" I want to ask if anyone has got one meanwhile and I think no.
Everyone will believe, his one is one of the five left. That is creative too by the developer and so I don't want to read any stories about the mad professor, ok?
As long as I bought from Noisebug I was very satiesfied with the deals and Antonio is really a very serious dealer.
I initiated a conflict solution on PayPal with less hope to get the module or my money back. But I have to try it!

User avatar
REwire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1959
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:30 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Post by REwire » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:36 am

phaedra wrote:Also the last words I read in this case! Reading the words "only 5 modules(M32) are not shipped yet" I want to ask if anyone has got one meanwhile and I think no.
Everyone will believe, his one is one of the five left. That is creative too by the developer and so I don't want to read any stories about the mad professor, ok?
I counted 5 people in this thread who claimed to have paid for 1 or 2 M32's; 1 for a Model 10 and two not paid but reserved. Very doubtful everyone else got served but the 7 M32's owed to these 5 people.

I don't like transmitting messages if they are not truthful so I apologize for that. I've been the one generally informing Peter what's happening on the forums and got him alterted to that Member Only thread Muff locked...my bad. He doesn't want to get in these forums anymore; I don't want to get involved any longer.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”