Adapting the EuroRack audio world for video synthesis

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

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johnnywoods
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Post by johnnywoods » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:20 pm

here's the video, just a simple demonstration of basic functionality:
[video][/video]

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daverj
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Post by daverj » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:15 pm

Was the flicker in the purple in the first half some kind of bleedthrough of another oscillator, or an artifact of the modemix, or something else?

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johnnywoods
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Post by johnnywoods » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:53 pm

The flicker is most likely due to the fact that I recorded this to a VHS tape that has probably been re-recorded on about 25 times. I record everything that comes out of my modular, but I have one tape I keep re-using for "experiments". I didn't notice the flicker when I was recording, but I'll check it out tomorrow to make sure. The Moddemix definitely adds a bit of softness and a slight slew to the right of the image.

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lizlarsen
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Post by lizlarsen » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:51 am

Nice experiment Johnny!! Interesting stuff.
Yeah, that looks like old VHS flicker/flavor to me too.

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daverj
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Post by daverj » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:53 pm

Yeah, recording to VHS definitely could add that flicker. And you won't see it during recording.

I was assuming that you recorded to DV or straight to a computer.

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ocd synthnerd
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Cwejman SPH-2 video demo

Post by ocd synthnerd » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:26 am

[video][/video]

Sorry it's blurry. It's the best I could get the compression.

Do you guys deinterlace when compressing?
Since the LZX modules use interlaced video I thought it might make it look better if you don't, but deinterlacing seems to make things look less ragged
for me.

Anyone know which way is the way to go for sure?

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lizlarsen
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Post by lizlarsen » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:44 am

Oh, weird!!! There's some really interesting stuff going on in there. I need to try out my phaser as well now.

Deinterlacing helps a little bit sometimes, it really depends on the nature of the video. The video itself is interlaced but any unsync'ed control voltage sources or oscillators you feed in as video sources are going to be linear rather than interlaced. I usually deinterlace clips when rendering out before web upload.

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daverj
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Post by daverj » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:26 am

That was fun. I especially liked the craziness around the 6 minute mark.

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ocd synthnerd
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Post by ocd synthnerd » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:42 pm

Thanks guys.
I'm bummed on the compression. A few minutes of my favorite stuff can't be seen. I would have cut it out if I knew it was going to turn out like that. Sadly I guess I'm using the best compression settings I can seem to get. Compressing is always a let down.
Oh Well.
How do you imbed Vimeo files on this site? The usual doesn't seem to work here for me.

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daverj
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Post by daverj » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:49 pm

It works the same as YouTube embeds. Just use the "Video" button in the reply box. Either paste the link, select it and then hit the Video button. Or Hit the Video button once, paste the link, then hit the Video button again.

I fixed your post so it is embedded.

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ocd synthnerd
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Post by ocd synthnerd » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:17 pm

I swear that's what i do but It never works. I'm dumb I guess.
thanks dave

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daverj
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Post by daverj » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:29 pm

Well, it may be something odd with the forum too, or with Vimeo. When I just came here the video wasn't showing. I refreshed and now I see it again.

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jjr
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Post by jjr » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:37 pm

So the video exiting the color video encoder is interlaced when its set to NTSC - when its set to PAL is it progressive ( full frame)? I'm still trying to wrap my head around what happens when you send a 16:9 wide screen signal in - does it remain in 16:9 in the system and whats the best way to keep it 16:9 when exiting the system?
thanks
jjr

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lizlarsen
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Post by lizlarsen » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:23 pm

Hey Jimmy! 16:9 is a question of how the video is displayed and recorded -- there's nothing in a composite video signal that defines it as "16:9" or "4:3". So if you're shooting with a 16:9 camera, then send it through the video synth, and display it as 16:9 on a monitor, or capture as 16:9 when digitizing, it will maintain the aspect ratio with no problems.

PAL and NTSC are both interlaced formats.

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johnnywoods
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Post by johnnywoods » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:43 pm

jjr wrote: I'm still trying to wrap my head around what happens when you send a 16:9 wide screen signal in - does it remain in 16:9 in the system and whats the best way to keep it 16:9 when exiting the system?
thanks
jjr
It depends where the signal is coming from. If you're sending out a composite signal from a video camera, DVD player, etc, you will get letter boxes at the top and bottom of the image. Unless, the device has an output option to send a "squeezed" signal.
Of course, this is still a 16:9 signal, but it doesn't take advantage of the full resolution within the system.

My technique of choice is to ingest the 16:9 footage into FCP or Avid, then squeeze it to a 4:3 aspect ratio before outputting to the video synth. My display has an option so I can view it "unsqueezed" while I'm working. I capture the processed signal through an HD upscaler which also has an "unsqueeze" feature. So it ends up 16:9 in the end. It's actually much simpler than it sounds.

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jjr
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Post by jjr » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:56 pm

cool what upscaler do you use ? its hardware?
thanks
jjr

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johnnywoods
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Post by johnnywoods » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:24 am

jjr wrote:cool what upscaler do you use ? its hardware?
thanks
jjr
I actually have a VHS player with an HD upscaler built in. It works surprisingly well. Ive also used a Matrox MXO2 Mini and Avid Nitris DX.
The Matrox is a great affordable I/O solution. It has composite/ s-video/ component/ HDMI in and out. Support for ProRes too.

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jjr
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Post by jjr » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:13 am

thanks. Have you guys ever used magic bullet instant HD? I never have and I wonder how it compares to a hardware solution.
http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/product ... nstant-hd/

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daverj
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Post by daverj » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:59 am

A hardware solution is more convenient. A software solution can potentially give better results, since it's under no time constraints to do the calculations.

But of course cheap hardware and cheap software can also give poor results if not designed well.

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flozki
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Post by flozki » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:29 pm

hello. i use all kind of analog modules.almost all the basic doepfer stuff as well as many homemade modules.
all vco's, lfo's , cv switches , 4067 based sequencers work also for video sequencing. this was quite a suprise for me because normally 4067 multiplexers are really low-fi (frequency, crosstalk...) but it works...

but i use synkie input, output modules. so the sync pulse is removed and added back in the end. also i can use the modules to genrate sync.
so between you can use anything but have to divide down the voltage to 1 volt.
f.

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PhineasFreak
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Post by PhineasFreak » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:21 pm

Are there any basic utility modules intended for sudio setups that don't work or should be avoided when planning a euro videomodular
I'm aware I'll want some multiples/buffers/mixers etc (as far as cv's go I mean)

Am hoping that althgough the cv's aren't generally gonna be +/- 10v or whatever that most basic euro utilities will work?
https://thomaswulfe.bandcamp.com/
http://www.soundcloud.com/ylem-records/
http://www.soundcloud.com/best-of-ylem/
http://www.soundcloud.com/waxcide/
http://thomaswulfe.muffwiggler.com/
http://ljunggrenaudio.com/
http://waxcide.bandcamp.com/
Just remember what Phineas would say... "eurorack can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no eurorack". - bkbirge/

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daverj
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Post by daverj » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:22 pm

On my upcoming video synth, all video inputs accept standard Euro +/-5 volt signals as well as the special video voltage range. No adapters or anything else required. Just plug in any Euro module.

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lizlarsen
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Post by lizlarsen » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:25 pm

As far as utility DC mixers, mults, and buffers go, the only real concern is bandwidth when mixing 1V signals such as those put out by the LZX modules. Passive mults don't make a difference -- buffered mults, and mixers which use op-amps intended for audio, may have poor frequency response for video signals, but will be fine and useful for mixing lower frequency modulation signals, regardless of the voltage range.

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PhineasFreak
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Post by PhineasFreak » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:49 pm

Is a buffered mult likely to be necessary or does most video stuff have such things effectively built in?
https://thomaswulfe.bandcamp.com/
http://www.soundcloud.com/ylem-records/
http://www.soundcloud.com/best-of-ylem/
http://www.soundcloud.com/waxcide/
http://thomaswulfe.muffwiggler.com/
http://ljunggrenaudio.com/
http://waxcide.bandcamp.com/
Just remember what Phineas would say... "eurorack can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no eurorack". - bkbirge/

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johnnywoods
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Post by johnnywoods » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:10 am

The LZX modules have buffered outputs. I've stacked up 6 stackcables on one output with no noticeable droop.

Dave: I'm curious about your earlier reply. Assuming your system runs on 0-1v video signals, does this mean CV inputs are separate from video inputs? Or is there some sort of switching to allow for the different ranges?

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