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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

RIP Bananalogue???
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author RIP Bananalogue???
Veqtor
HTTP 404: http://www.bananalogue.com
I don't think he'll ever be back, why can't Ken Stone just release the schems? huh?
Muff Wiggler
cry

I don't think Ken can release them, this is pure speculation on my behalf, however I do know that Serge T was involved in the Bananalogue project, and I assume there are/were royalties being paid out. My impression is that this relationship (Serge/Ken/Seth) was established and maintained by Seth, and I assume it was something like:

Serge provides the schems, blesses the project, receives royalties

Ken designs the boards, sells them to Seth

Seth builds them up, sells them and pays the royalties.

Unless the relationship can be shortcircuited between Ken and Serge, and assuming Ken is willing to maintain this and ensure the royalty payments, I can't imagine the availability opening up.

I can't speak for Ken but they way he runs CGS I do have a hard time imagining this.

Really sad news, that VCS in particular is a stunning module.
parasitk
Who knows, maybe it's being moved to a new server and will be back up in business any day now?


Well, a boy can dream can't he?
Veqtor
Yeah, I've ended up using something like 4 slopes everytime I use the Serge at EMS Studios in Stockholm. It's looking more and more like I have to become really poor buying 2 quad DSG M-odules...

Thing is, I don't think the circuit in itself is identical to the one in the serge dsg, and... I have a hard time thinking there's a patent...

I just wish someone could get through to Seth, make him do at least another run of VCS'es... I'd get 2!
mono-poly
Patents doesn't mean you just can steal a design.
It always tasted kinda weird to me the Banalogue VCS.
To me it was like giving Rex a punch somewhere.
parasitk
Really? Mr. Serge is punching Rex though? I dunno.
Veqtor
mono-poly wrote:
Patents doesn't mean you just can steal a design.
It always tasted kinda weird to me the Banalogue VCS.
To me it was like giving Rex a punch somewhere.

One could argue about that but, people have been ripping off the moog ladder, buchla LPG, source of uncertainty and the heisenberg is basically the serge smooth and stepped generator.

Sooner or later these designs should become "public property" so to speak... I know that Serge of course should get money for his great inventions, but I also believe that it would be benificial to everyone if more than one manufacturer were allowed make modules based on these inventions, with a change of attitude, the synthesizer market could become a more inventive place....
suitandtieguy
i should probably chime in here and remind everyone that the whole concept of the Serge system is that it was a democratisation of synthesizer technology at the time.

someone will make something that does exactly what the VCS does sometime within the next year.

however, it won't be me, and i don't know who would do it. it's just an observation. it could be Rex finally doing an STS module that exists outside of the Serge Music System (most likely EU format), it could be Ken Stone selling the PCBs, or it could be someone somewhere else building it in Aries format for some unknown motivation.
mono-poly
Veqtor wrote:
mono-poly wrote:
Patents doesn't mean you just can steal a design.
It always tasted kinda weird to me the Banalogue VCS.
To me it was like giving Rex a punch somewhere.

One could argue about that but, people have been ripping off the moog ladder, buchla LPG, source of uncertainty and the heisenberg is basically the serge smooth and stepped generator.


So if someone copys it we all can go like the moog ladder?
I know Oakley asked permision from Bob to use his ladder.
The DIY LPG run was discused with Don Buchla first.
Grant Richter talked about Buchla like stuff with Don before going with it.
The SOU is done by Dieter Doepfer witch is just a dickhead anyway and makes a living of using other peoples work.
The Heisenberg i don't know if it is a copy, i guess not because it is digital.
It might be inspired by it.

And the right to give it to the public property is crap.
Yeah for DIY purpose not for someone else to make monney out off it.
Rex Probe just went on with producing Serge stuff after Serge left.
Glitchmachines
suitandtieguy wrote:


someone will make something that does exactly what the VCS does sometime within the next year.


I have my fingers crossed that it will be Tony (Make Noise) !
Veqtor
acrodot wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:


someone will make something that does exactly what the VCS does sometime within the next year.


I have my fingers crossed that it will be Tony (Make Noise) !


Seconded! w00t
D/A A/D
[quote="Veqtor"]
acrodot wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:


someone will make something that does exactly what the VCS does sometime within the next year.


I have my fingers crossed that it will be Tony (Make Noise) !


Thirdonded.

I am however, very happy that I got my VCS when I did!
Veqtor
[quote="D/A A/D"]
Veqtor wrote:
acrodot wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:


someone will make something that does exactly what the VCS does sometime within the next year.


I have my fingers crossed that it will be Tony (Make Noise) !


Thirdonded.

I am however, very happy that I got my VCS when I did!


Dammit! I want one, too!!!.... No wait, what I really want is:



it seems also that the bananalogue server isn't down anymore, but there's no index.htm on the server and all the old content seems gone... But there is a server... So there is hope...
2012
there is is such a big demand for a VCS that makes it so strange they are not manufactured anymore.

Think abouth that,like mono-poly says,there is something not 'clear' between serge,stone and rex that is for sure.

i think the royalty story is complete bollocks,if rex has the full rights its inimaginable he would let another manufacturer to sell some BEST of hes own modulles.
Veqtor
Well, think about it... don't you think he makes a much bigger profit by forcing customers into the serge format just to own a set of slope gens?

I can't begin to imagine how good the whole VCS hype has to have been for his sales...
Babaluma
maybe seth nemec was rex probe in disguise, maybe rex probe is really one of the residents, maybe the residents are really god, maybe 2012 is rex, who knows?

all just conspiracy theories.

i don't really mind, i have my vcs and i love it!

lol lol lol

i'd like to see rex take over grant's wiard 1200 series in serge format (they used to be in the same band MEME together, ooh!), and john blacet the frac. that would be rad.

this is all just conjecture over some very private/personal business stuff, which has nothing to do with any of us.
ndkent
For what it's worth the big difference at least for me is the VCS has dedicated up and down vc inputs (that have pull out pots for expo) versus only one pot on the Serge + a switch controlling up/down/both.

I think the VCS implementation is preferable. I would guess it's a space consideration but even before the VCS came out I was wondering why Rex or Serge didn't just have a separate up and down banana input. I guess one could "play" the switch but if one really wanted to do that one could always try to patch something externally whereas the separate up and down VC is far more valuable.
2012
Veqtor wrote:

I can't begin to imagine how good the whole VCS hype has to have been for his sales...


well ,its a good thing for sure,he can only sell more.
brandon daniel
ndkent wrote:
For what it's worth the big difference at least for me is the VCS has dedicated up and down vc inputs (that have pull out pots for expo) versus only one pot on the Serge + a switch controlling up/down/both.


Yup, I know I've used the distinct up/down control inputs before to create evolving sounds where the attack/decay were controlled by different sources, it's really handy, and I'd miss it if I were stuck with an up/down/both switch.
Kent
mono-poly wrote:
Veqtor wrote:
mono-poly wrote:
Patents doesn't mean you just can steal a design.
It always tasted kinda weird to me the Banalogue VCS.
To me it was like giving Rex a punch somewhere.

One could argue about that but, people have been ripping off the moog ladder, buchla LPG, source of uncertainty and the heisenberg is basically the serge smooth and stepped generator.


So if someone copys it we all can go like the moog ladder?
I know Oakley asked permision from Bob to use his ladder.
The DIY LPG run was discused with Don Buchla first.
Grant Richter talked about Buchla like stuff with Don before going with it.
The SOU is done by Dieter Doepfer witch is just a dickhead anyway and makes a living of using other peoples work.
The Heisenberg i don't know if it is a copy, i guess not because it is digital.
It might be inspired by it.

And the right to give it to the public property is crap.
Yeah for DIY purpose not for someone else to make monney out off it.
Rex Probe just went on with producing Serge stuff after Serge left.


The last thing that I want to do is start something with someone on the internet; especially here @ Muff's where I go to get away from it all and have some fun w00t

However, I'd like to remind others that few of us here on this forum are lawyers. I know that I'm not. However, I've been involved in a few trade-dress and trademark issues and some that relate to circuit design.

Mono-poly, your disparaging words regarding our little niche of module design and manufacturing seem to be completely emotionally-based and are probably not based upon much in the way of direct, 1st-hand, knowledge of these things.
What I'm saying is that one has to know the full scope of the story. What are the legal aspects involved? Did the person/company that originally popularized the circuit or module in question have any ownership claims to it? If so, for how long? Which types of protection?
Many things in circuit-land are built upon the shoulders of giants. Which is to say that many circuits can't be protected since they are simply direct evolutions of existing designs.

Not trying to start a flame war Flamed! just wanting to show another perspective and attempting to keep emotion out of the argument. If it is unsubstantiated; go easy and please be careful when using an emotionally loaded word like "ripoff".
smitty
Patent search for VCF. Yamaha owns a bunch.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1& u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=VCF&FIELD1=& co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PTXT
Veqtor
OH NOES, now doepfer has to stop selling the A-196!!!
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1& u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=30&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1 =VCF&OS=VCF&RS=VCF

hihi
wetterberg
haha, I'm pretty damned sure the license to use it comes when you buy the PLL chip wink
mono-poly
Kent wrote:

What I'm saying is that one has to know the full scope of the story. What are the legal aspects involved? Did the person/company that originally popularized the circuit or module in question have any ownership claims to it? If so, for how long? Which types of protection?
Many things in circuit-land are built upon the shoulders of giants. Which is to say that many circuits can't be protected since they are simply direct evolutions of existing designs.

Not trying to start a flame war Flamed! just wanting to show another perspective and attempting to keep emotion out of the argument. If it is unsubstantiated; go easy and please be careful when using an emotionally loaded word like "ripoff".


I think if a circuit isn't protected you just should ask the designer if you could use his design.
It is like stealing a bike witch isn't locked.
If a company doesn't exist anymore then you won't do any harm at all.
Like the Arp filters etc.
Most times when you ask to use designs for diy purpose most designers will give you a go anyway.
Don Buchla did that on a few circuits witch had comercial runs of pcbs.
I am still after what i think about Doepfer and you Wigglers are still my friends!
Kent
I'm glad that you are taking what I typed in the intended manner.

However, a bike, locked up or not is the sole property of the purchaser of said bike until he choses to sell that right of ownership. It is a physical good. This is entirely different from design, patents, trade-dress, trademarks, etc. which are granted for defined amounts of time.

Asking permission of someone that doesn't own a circuit, to use said circuit, seems like a friendly thing to do in most cases and should be considered, perhaps. It could also well be ridiculous since the person/company that popularized said circuit may not have done anything unique themselves except to build upon something very similar but strike at the right time and make it popular.
The vast majority of Fender's early (and not so early) tube amps are a good example. Most of the circuits are out of the Radiotron Designer's Handbook.

Well, that's it for tonight. It's a long and complicated subject.
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