DIY Noob Stockpiling Question

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frozenkore
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Post by frozenkore » Fri May 20, 2011 1:24 pm

consumed wrote:i get my solder term pots and partially bonded wire (same as blacet kits) from smallbearelec.com. the wire is really the best for soldering, makes life easy.
That is good to know, I hate whatever wire I have lying around and quite frequently it's a stripped ribbon cable >.>.
Cheers!
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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Fri May 20, 2011 1:34 pm

Hey Muff, this forum has a search function :razz:

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Post by Spanningtree » Fri May 20, 2011 1:41 pm

OT:Not sure what your doing for test equipment but I have been looking at potentially picking up one of these scopes recently:

http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1052E-50M ... B001VK4TI2

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dso1060-5- ... vice-35971

http://cgi.ebay.com/HDS1021M-Handheld-D ... 4550wt_922

A bench DC power supply would also be handy, say 0-30V up to 3A.

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Post by fluxmonkey » Fri May 20, 2011 2:47 pm

A few points and an alternate perspective:

--designers tend to have parts/values that they favor, but it's not always the same parts across designers. so if you correlate across CGS BOMs, you'll get a different list than MFOS or MOTM.

--having a large stock is great, but don't underestimate the storage and inventory maintenance involved. labeling and sorting things into bins is tedious, but if you don't organize your stuff so you can find what you need, it's the same as not having it.

--no matter how much stock you have, you will never have everything. so you'll always be placing an occasional order for some oddball part, as well as to replenish what you use.

--building take time; if you keep a few projects in the pipeline, one or another may be waiting for a part but you'll always have something to solder.

so all that said: i actually am now pretty much where you want to get to, in terms of having what i need on hand, but it happened organically over time. i started out w/ some basics--including a few assortments (i think jameco has an kit of 27 resistor values x 100@ for abt a penny a piece). also panel parts; jacks/pots/knobs/switches (that gets expensive fast). then i worked specific kits and bought bulk quantities of the specific parts/values i needed: 200 resistors at a time, 100 pots, 50 tranistors, etc. over time, you accumulate a stock of the parts that are specific to what you're doing.

good luck!
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Peake
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Post by Peake » Fri May 20, 2011 3:30 pm

You're insane (just like the rest of us) :hihi:

Building a pair of Best of CGS panels (excellent choice) is a -significant- undertaking. Make sure your soldering chops are up to date...and understand the enormity of the project before you see it all in front of you. Not attempting to douse your empetus, just saying be realistic about the time it will take to get into something functional. And yes, it is worth the time and effort.

My advice is to take a good look at the BOMs of the boards you're going to stuff and make note of any recurring components- and purchase boatloads. Back in the day, Frys and other electronic stores around LA used to sell bags of several hundred resistors, per value. I have since gone through most of them, and again purchased bags of 200 per value for things like 68K, 6.8K, 470R, 470K, 100K 1%, 47K (although haven't seen a project with a 47K in a while). Mouser sell some Xicon type resistor for $4.00 per bag of 200. Don't doubt how many you'll end up needing. Same for .1, .01, and .001 ceramics. I just brought home 100 .1uf ceramics from allelectronics.com and have already gone through them (just ordered up 200 more).

Also, make note of any hard-to-find components discussed in the catgirl synth groups/here and find places like unicornelectronics.com who might have them cheap, much less in stock. Make note of any confirmed working substitutes people discuss, you might end up needing them and you'll have the data handy if at the last minute...

You'll need something like this:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... AND/1.html

and replacements:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... ENT/1.html

and this as well:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... ER//1.html

Know that when you get nearly all solder off of a joint with a sucker, and just can't get that last bit holding the component in place, the trick is to put more solder onto the joint, -then- hit it again with the sucker. You can also hold it perpendicular to the board at the edge of the joint; works in certain cases.

Don't forget to deflux with alcohol. A Q-Tip can get into tight spaces, and a medium-bristle toothbrush works wonders. Don't install FETs and ICs until after general defluxing.

Also, post plenty of threads with titles like "How do you solder a resistor" because we love them and will always be very kind to those who ask. :hihi:

When you're done with the CGS, know that there are several Buchla DIY designs lurking around the fora, such as the 291 bandpass filter (with added LP and HP responses), all of the 266 Source Of Uncertainty sections can be found over at electro-music.com; fonik and Verbos have artwork for the LPG, etc. Would be very nice adds to your killer Wiard/Bug/CGS system. And you'll get to learn how to etch PCBs...do it the positive expose route, it's extremely accurate/good for fine traces.

Note that I'm working upon a dual oscillator and yesterday, it took me 3 1/2 hours from beginning to expose through the drilling and tinning just to get a circuit board. To be fair, it was an excellent exposure/result and has 453 holes. That, um, takes a while to drill :eek: :help: and my exposure unit is tiny and take twice as long, and I didn't do anything at the same time to increase efficiency... But this will open your world even further if/when the time comes. Edit: My "general" stockpiling tips assume that you are interested in forever continuing in DIY. You haven't built any studio gear yet...prodigy-pro.com/diy

"We accept you! We accept you! One of us! One of us! Gooble gobble, gooble gobble!" -Paraphrasing "Freaks" :hihi:
Last edited by Peake on Fri May 20, 2011 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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consumed
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Post by consumed » Fri May 20, 2011 3:43 pm

fluxmonkey wrote:--having a large stock is great, but don't underestimate the storage and inventory maintenance involved. labeling and sorting things into bins is tedious, but if you don't organize your stuff so you can find what you need, it's the same as not having it.

--no matter how much stock you have, you will never have everything. so you'll always be placing an occasional order for some oddball part, as well as to replenish what you use.
+1
my thoughts exactly when initially reading the OP

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Post by sduck » Fri May 20, 2011 3:43 pm

Someone posted this huge excel spreadsheet of parts for various projects here. I downloaded it, but never did anything with it. Here it is.

Personally, I'd find your plan way too organized. Me, I'm geting packages from mouser and digikey on a weekly basis.
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Post by maskull » Fri May 20, 2011 3:47 pm

Spanningtree wrote:OT:Not sure what your doing for test equipment but I have been looking at potentially picking up one of these scopes recently:

http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1052E-50M ... B001VK4TI2
Great scope for the price!

There is a simple software hack for this scope that will make the scope run at 100MHz. Apparently Rigol uses the same exact scope for their 100MHz model, but cripples the firmware and sells it as the 50MHz version.

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Post by J3RK » Fri May 20, 2011 3:56 pm

I would also get things that are getting hard to find. DIP Package OTAs, some types of matched transistor pairs, tempcos, and while they are still made, it's harder to find polystyrene caps. Allied carries vactrols, and these, if they don't become scarce, are at least rising in price. Most CMOS4XXX chips are easy to get, but there are a few like the 4006 that aren't very easy to find now.

I like to stock up on trimmers and pots every so often. I buy bulk for linear response, as I use these constantly (10K, 50K, 100K) and buy audio taper and other values of either as needed.

I buy LEDs per project.

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Fri May 20, 2011 4:05 pm

My philosophy has been to buy extras of any parts that aren't particularly expensive or something that will only likely occur on the project. Now I am to the point where I have a lot of resistors, capacitors and transistors along with some extra ICs and odds and ends. So at this point when I get new PCBs I like to stuff them as much as I can and then note the parts I don't have. I'll do this with a batch of PCBs and then make another large order at once and do the same thing with getting extras. Of course it took me a while to get to the stage where I have a lot of extra parts. I always buy for multiple projects as paying for shipping on small orders can add up really fast.

As far as buying extras I look for volume discounts and if that volume make sense for current and future purposes.

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Post by Luka » Fri May 20, 2011 5:03 pm

if i were to start over id try be the synth diy ninja
only order what you need - don't stock up on everything

be super careful with BOMS and just order that - plan ahead of course so you know what you want to build but don't go overboard overding in bulk for just for the sake of it

even with lots of stock you end up having to order one or two bits for most projects and you NEVER order one or two bits

i probably have enough parts here to build a airplane (of course minus one or two bits) and it takes up a lot of room and scares all my friends

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Post by PM33AUD » Fri May 20, 2011 6:51 pm

Agreed on 'overstocking.'

The only things I buy in bulk are items I need a lot of since I'm building many units or ash-trash type stuff.

- Buy a nice MF resistor kit.
- Buy a ton of 100k linear pots (just hang a resistor on the wiper for an excellent audio taper pot)
- Buy some 1, 10, 47, 100uF electrolytics
- Buy a ceramic capacitor kit
- Buy some TL07x's

I'd say everything else just buy to order and keep up on your inventory (like someone mentioned, the smaller it is, the easier it is to maintain). The other thing to not get lost in is the fact that a lot of time you can force what you have to work via. certain tricks. There's only rare times where EXACT components are required and even this is usually the 'comfort' of the designer and what parts they are familiar with - even though there may be cheaper/better devices out there. This is INSANELY true in embedded design.

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Post by Dragonslair » Fri May 20, 2011 6:54 pm

Be careful, or you may end up with something like this :zombie:
There are 4 more parts bins hidden behind the cabinet!

Image

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Post by Luka » Fri May 20, 2011 9:11 pm

...and i just wanted to build a theremin... :hihi:

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Post by sduck » Fri May 20, 2011 10:16 pm

maskull wrote:
Spanningtree wrote:OT:Not sure what your doing for test equipment but I have been looking at potentially picking up one of these scopes recently:

http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1052E-50M ... B001VK4TI2
Great scope for the price!

There is a simple software hack for this scope that will make the scope run at 100MHz. Apparently Rigol uses the same exact scope for their 100MHz model, but cripples the firmware and sells it as the 50MHz version.
Scopes are good. Nice to have one around. What bugs me is the emphasis on getting them at certain mhz numbers or above - I've seen people say on this forum that you've got to be 100mhz or higher. As far as I know, this is balderdash as far as analog synths are concerned. For debugging computer circuits etc, sure you want the big numbers. But as far as checking waveforms and relative voltage levels, anything will work. My 25mhz Heath that I got for 21$ is all you really need for this application.

The above is just my opinion, and may well be unfounded and completely wrong. Scope jocks feel free to correct me.
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Post by PM33AUD » Fri May 20, 2011 11:31 pm

RE: scopes...

For audio only, 1MHz is enough.

For 'DIY' digital, 100MHz is enough.

One thing to note is that sample rate is key and generally related to the BW. This is why you want a multiple higher BW than the actual range you want to work in. Most scopes automatically do the memory depth to sample rate balancing act but it is related... if you want a ton of samples, you can only store so much... reduce sa. rate by 2, you now have twice the length of data to view...etc...

If you are trying to measure noise, glitches, jitter, and the likes then that is where BW helps and could be a reason why, even though you are working in sub 20kHz ranges, you would need a much faster scope.

Beyond that you are dealing with much more complicated measurement systems - HS digital, RF/comms, etc.. which you need advanced triggering, bus decoding, etc.. Of course you can always have more bandwidth or features, but you're going to pay for it.

I will say this, however... if you can find a scope in your price range that does a decent FFT, then GET IT! I think every synth user should have a quick way of performing spectral analysis. Make sure you try it out first... some of them are quite slow at performing the computations. I just outfitted an engineering-music lab with 10 Agilent DSO1012As... they were dirt cheap (for a new scope), work great for audio, small/lightweight, have USB data capture (finally GPIB is dying!), and FFTs are relatively quick and easy to use. New they are just a little over $1k. There are $20,000 1GHz Infiniiums in the lab next door and there is no difference to the user when making measurements in the audio-domain.

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Post by questionable » Sat May 21, 2011 12:12 am

I have the 50mhz Rigol and have been very happy with it so far.

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Post by oozitron » Sat May 21, 2011 7:41 am

As mentioned, be careful about overbuying. Years ago I bought 500 of those stupid LM394 chips, thinking I'd use them. Threw most of them away a couple years ago when I was running out of space for my Star Wars figure collection.

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Post by gasboss775 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:19 pm

theglyph wrote:CMOS (e.g. CD4XXX), OPAMP TL072/4, Transistor 2N3904/6, Diodes 1N4001/4148 are some very common parts.

You'll find them used in many of the CGS circuits.
I'd say this could be a good starting point. Add a Resistor and a Capacitor kit and perhaps a few LM13700. LM358/324 Dual/Quad opamps are good for DC Control signals as inputs and outputs go down to negative rail.

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Post by TripJ » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:24 pm

What I did, was consolidate via spreadsheet the BOM of my first 14 boards -all from the same designer. I could easily see which parts showed up on lots of designs and just ordered lots extra of those, but a few extra of everything. More expensive parts like jacks, knobs, and pots I held back on until until I had a few in hand to try and be sure they were correct. It was my first ever component order so I knew I wouldn't get everything right, but I didn't miss too many. Some parts were just overlooked so I had to do monthly touch-up orders to keep things flowing.
It has worked fairly well.

I'm pretty much down to trouble-shooting and not likely to need any more parts and have a good stock of the less expensive items on hand for the next batch of boards. I've looked ahead at what I want to build and have been adding a few BOMs to the inventory as I go.

Recently I switched to database format as it seems to massage the data better.

Attached is my catalog of everything I've bought since I started.
This builds most of the Erica DIY and a few other boards, plus some things to fiddle and learn with on the breadboard.
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Post by gasboss775 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:17 am

TripJ wrote:What I did, was consolidate via spreadsheet the BOM of my first 14 boards -all from the same designer. I could easily see which parts showed up on lots of designs and just ordered lots extra of those, but a few extra of everything. More expensive parts like jacks, knobs, and pots I held back on until until I had a few in hand to try and be sure they were correct. It was my first ever component order so I knew I wouldn't get everything right, but I didn't miss too many. Some parts were just overlooked so I had to do monthly touch-up orders to keep things flowing.
It has worked fairly well.

I'm pretty much down to trouble-shooting and not likely to need any more parts and have a good stock of the less expensive items on hand for the next batch of boards. I've looked ahead at what I want to build and have been adding a few BOMs to the inventory as I go.

Recently I switched to database format as it seems to massage the data better.

Attached is my catalog of everything I've bought since I started.
This builds most of the Erica DIY and a few other boards, plus some things to fiddle and learn with on the breadboard.
I see you bought a few things from Tayda, was this a good experience for you? I'm constantly amazed at how cheap they are whilst for the best part of the time they deliver quality goods. The only thing I was disapointed with were the very thin leads on their resistors, although they are not the only supp!iers who sell such resistors. What is shipping time time where you are. Here in UK it's around 10 days but occasionally just over two weeks and a couple of times less than a week, pretty good considering the stuff is coming from Thailand.

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Post by TripJ » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:55 am

gasboss775 wrote:........
I see you bought a few things from Tayda, was this a good experience for you? I'm constantly amazed at how cheap they are whilst for the best part of the time they deliver quality goods. The only thing I was disapointed with were the very thin leads on their resistors, although they are not the only supp!iers who sell such resistors. What is shipping time time where you are. Here in UK it's around 10 days but occasionally just over two weeks and a couple of times less than a week, pretty good considering the stuff is coming from Thailand.
So far, pretty good experience. I don't have enough experience to to make many claims about quality. I did check a couple of dozen resistor values and they were within spec, but not by a great margin. I haven't encountered a bad component out of the bag. Their website is the best for beginners just starting up the component learning curve. They don't have everything (maybe 90%?), but what they have is easy to find. My shipping times have been around 10 days but less 2 weeks -shipped from about 2000km from me. One 2nd day shipment originated in Thailand(?).

They have a 15% discount code posted on Facebook every 3-4 weeks that defrays some shipping costs.

I would love to look inside the "machine" that can pack, label, and ship penny resistors profitably.

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Post by calaveras » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:40 am

you could also just go to tayda.com and get like 100 or so of every value of resistor and ceramic and electrolytic capacitor in multiples of 10 ,22 and 47.
EG 47 ohm, 470 ohm, 4.7k, 47k, 470k, 4.7 meg 47 meg.
Probably come out to like $12.
That is more of a general parts bin and not specific to anything.

I also keep a master spreadsheet of my parts inventory, and have everything organized in parts bins. That way I can look up a PCB + Panel deallio on Muffs and check it against my parts pretty fast.

As far as Tayda quality, no issue whatsoever with ICs, caps, resistors etc. Pots are fine.
The jacks and switches have been okay, but not nearly as high standard as switchcraft. Their 1/4" plugs and stuff like that are pure junk.

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Post by gasboss775 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:44 am

Buy Lots of these:

100n Ceramic Capacitors

It is really important to put these on the power pins of your opamps, people don't always include then in their schematics ( myself included ) but they are very important in order to avoid potential instability with the opamps ( such as bursting into high frequency oscillation ) I learned this the hard way after wasting hours trying to fault find on breadboarded circuits that were behaving in unwanted ways because I had considered the decoupling capacitors unnecessary.
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Post by gasboss775 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:11 am

calaveras wrote:you could also just go to tayda.com and get like 100 or so of every value of resistor and ceramic and electrolytic capacitor in multiples of 10 ,22 and 47
There was a time when resistors were only available in those values back in the vacuum tube days, also their tolerance was an abysmal +/-20%
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