## Mandelbox trip

**Moderators:** luketeaford, Joe., lisa, Kent, daverj

- PhineasFreak
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
**Posts:**2030**Joined:**Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:49 am**Location:**South Wales

- bitSmasher
- Common Wiggler
**Posts:**236**Joined:**Wed May 18, 2011 6:03 am**Location:**Sydney.au

Bold statement for a 7th post.bitSmasher wrote:Very cool, now do it with analogue synthesis.

PhineasFreak.....did you make this?

HOW?

I like it a lot.

My music streaming:

https://choon.co/artists/jenamu6/

My youtube modular music movies:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f

My modular noises:

http://soundcloud.com/jenamu6

https://choon.co/artists/jenamu6/

My youtube modular music movies:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f

My modular noises:

http://soundcloud.com/jenamu6

http://sites.google.com/site/mandelbulber/home

I believe the artist's name is Krzysztof Marczak, from Poland.

This is a pretty clip!

While you couldn't do this kind of 3D modelling completely with an analog computer, I'm really excited about the potential of hybrid environments, such as high speed, video-rate voltage control over elements of a fractal generator or 3D engine, and texture-mapping of analogue-synthesized elements. Fractals are something I still have a lot to learn about.

While you couldn't do this kind of 3D modelling completely with an analog computer, I'm really excited about the potential of hybrid environments, such as high speed, video-rate voltage control over elements of a fractal generator or 3D engine, and texture-mapping of analogue-synthesized elements. Fractals are something I still have a lot to learn about.

LZX Industries | http://www.lzxindustries.net

fractal geometry was one of my favorite university subjects - much of our homework assignments used the old Logo programming language, where you would command the graphics-turtle to move different colored pens around the screen to generate various fractal images.

Btw, the above image sort of reminds me more of a figure called the Serpinski Gasket:

...than it does the Mandelbrot Set:

Maybe the SW is mixing the two together, kind of like wallpapering the Mandelbrot Set with the Serpinski Gasket...

Anyways, it looks does look unbelievably awesome!

--

You may notice how the SG can be generated with a simple transformation diagram above, where applying the same transformation law is applied to each segment of the figure generates the next approximation of the fractal.

In the case of SG, this transformation can be thought of as removing the central inverted equilateral triangle enclosed by the equilateral triangle segment -> resulting in 3 smaller equilateral triangles, one stacked on top of the other 2.... which then have their middles removed and so on...

A simpler family of fractals, known as Dragon Curves, are made by bending segments of lines:

The Mandelbrot Set is more difficult to visualize that way - it is easier to demonstrate its construction in terms of compact, closed sets of integers ("eisenstein integers", to be exact) in the complex-plane.

cheers,

n7

Btw, the above image sort of reminds me more of a figure called the Serpinski Gasket:

...than it does the Mandelbrot Set:

Maybe the SW is mixing the two together, kind of like wallpapering the Mandelbrot Set with the Serpinski Gasket...

Anyways, it looks does look unbelievably awesome!

--

You may notice how the SG can be generated with a simple transformation diagram above, where applying the same transformation law is applied to each segment of the figure generates the next approximation of the fractal.

In the case of SG, this transformation can be thought of as removing the central inverted equilateral triangle enclosed by the equilateral triangle segment -> resulting in 3 smaller equilateral triangles, one stacked on top of the other 2.... which then have their middles removed and so on...

A simpler family of fractals, known as Dragon Curves, are made by bending segments of lines:

The Mandelbrot Set is more difficult to visualize that way - it is easier to demonstrate its construction in terms of compact, closed sets of integers ("eisenstein integers", to be exact) in the complex-plane.

cheers,

n7

"the ordinary will ignore whatever they cannot explain as if nothing ever happened. and everything remains the same again..."

Very interesting. You should be able to generate something like the Serpinski Gasket using logic, dividers and VCOs in the analogue video synthesis world. I've seen those types of figures created with these techniques in the EMS Spectron, see the B&W images further down on the page here:

http://www.audiovisualizers.com/toolsha ... pectre.htm

http://www.audiovisualizers.com/toolsha ... pectre.htm

LZX Industries | http://www.lzxindustries.net

Awesome !!! I've always wanted to get back into fractals, and what more exciting way to do it than video synthesis!!

Btw, here are a couple of simpler dragon curves than the one given above:

cheers,

n7

Btw, here are a couple of simpler dragon curves than the one given above:

cheers,

n7

"the ordinary will ignore whatever they cannot explain as if nothing ever happened. and everything remains the same again..."

after looking at the tetra- and penta-dragon curves for a while, i made some simplifications, so that the mappings became proper functions (ie, waveforms) by more or less clipping off the "embedded stuff":

These pseudo-dragons will still become fractally on top, as the order of approximation increases, but stay log/linear/exponential along the sides.... I wonder how hard that would be to synthesize?

cheers,

n7

These pseudo-dragons will still become fractally on top, as the order of approximation increases, but stay log/linear/exponential along the sides.... I wonder how hard that would be to synthesize?

cheers,

n7

"the ordinary will ignore whatever they cannot explain as if nothing ever happened. and everything remains the same again..."

Hmmm, interesting. It seems possible, especially if you rotate those patterns 90 degrees and think of the fractal itself as being a repeating waveshape in audio range.

Mathematically I suppose it's a matter of translating whatever geometric equation there is to equate to a raster display, which deals with pre-set frequencies. Use of a vector-to-raster converter module (or vector rescanning) may open up some new geometric possibilities here too.

Mathematically I suppose it's a matter of translating whatever geometric equation there is to equate to a raster display, which deals with pre-set frequencies. Use of a vector-to-raster converter module (or vector rescanning) may open up some new geometric possibilities here too.

LZX Industries | http://www.lzxindustries.net

Yah - and the 5-dragon in particular looks like it can almost be synthesized using nothing but fm'd pulse-wave and offsets.creatorlars wrote:Hmmm, interesting. It seems possible, especially if you rotate those patterns 90 degrees and think of the fractal itself as being a repeating waveshape in audio range.

Mathematically I suppose it's a matter of translating whatever geometric equation there is to equate to a raster display, which deals with pre-set frequencies. Use of a vector-to-raster converter module (or vector rescanning) may open up some new geometric possibilities here too.

Late last night, I tried to fm'img 3 VWGs together I had set up as test patch for something else I was doing, and attempted to approximate the 3rd approximation of the pentadragon using:

VWG 1 pulse out into VWG 2 fm-1 in,

VWG 2 pulse out into VWG 3 fm-1 ,

VWG 3 pulse out into VBM/CVE/Projector-<====

A-and I thought I was seeing patterns that were vaguely dragon-curve-like. I'll post a video doodle of it later...

cheers,

n7

Awesome. This kind of discussion is very exciting.

For the five-dragon, a sequencer clocked into audio rates, with the clock source reset by Field (V) Sync, and the output FM'ing a Line (H) Sync'ed VWG could be interesting!

For the five-dragon, a sequencer clocked into audio rates, with the clock source reset by Field (V) Sync, and the output FM'ing a Line (H) Sync'ed VWG could be interesting!

LZX Industries | http://www.lzxindustries.net

The audio-rate-clocked sequencer idea worked out really, really well, i'd say!

I also patched in a MATHS clocked as a logarithmic-shaped LFO, to sweep the primary VWGs frequency. It really does look like it's trying to become a fractal! Now I think I'm going to need some more VWGs at some point (for higher-order approximations )...

I *will post a video* (actually 3 videos - 1 here and 2 in the video-doodles thread)

:hide: You see... 'Searching For Dragons - Pt 1' came out at around 9 mins / 1.8 GBytes... A-and although it appeared to upload and trans-code successfully, the you-tube said I had deleted the file - and *poof* the dragons vanished... <

:wookie::wookie::wookie::wookie::wookie::wookie:

:wiard::wiard::wiard::wiard::wiard::wiard:

cheers,

n7

maybe i'll put up a video-still in the meantime.

I also patched in a MATHS clocked as a logarithmic-shaped LFO, to sweep the primary VWGs frequency. It really does look like it's trying to become a fractal! Now I think I'm going to need some more VWGs at some point (for higher-order approximations )...

I *will post a video* (actually 3 videos - 1 here and 2 in the video-doodles thread)

*oh... sometime in the next several hours*.:hide: You see... 'Searching For Dragons - Pt 1' came out at around 9 mins / 1.8 GBytes... A-and although it appeared to upload and trans-code successfully, the you-tube said I had deleted the file - and *poof* the dragons vanished... <

*oh thanks so much, you-tube (and/or me - whichever was more at fault in this instance)*> :bang: ... but they're on their way again!:wookie::wookie::wookie::wookie::wookie::wookie:

:wiard::wiard::wiard::wiard::wiard::wiard:

:deadbanana:youtube wrote: 177 min. remaining... 36%

cheers,

n7

maybe i'll put up a video-still in the meantime.

It was based on a Menger Spongenuman7 wrote:Btw, the above image sort of reminds me more of a figure called the Serpinski Gasket:

...than it does the Mandelbrot Set:

Maybe the SW is mixing the two together, kind of like wallpapering the Mandelbrot Set with the Serpinski Gasket...

Anyways, it looks does look unbelievably awesome!

[...]

cheers,

n7

cool thanks for the info (I seem to recall that one of those was based on the other, from my geometry studies dating back to twenty-some odd years ago)!Robba wrote:It was based on a Menger Spongenuman7 wrote:Btw, the above image sort of reminds me more of a figure called the Serpinski Gasket:

...than it does the Mandelbrot Set:

Maybe the SW is mixing the two together, kind of like wallpapering the Mandelbrot Set with the Serpinski Gasket...

Anyways, it looks does look unbelievably awesome!

[...]

cheers,

n7

a-and here's a dragon (well, a pseudo-dragon... sort of... ):

[video][/video]

cheers,

n7

Yup. And add a little interference in the image to cause the detail to stick out.robotfunk wrote:you can get some great analog fractals using video feedback (camera pointing at screen the output is projected onto). If you rotate the camera, instant fractals!

Here are some stills from the MVIP feedback recording I posted here a couple of months ago:

- PhineasFreak
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
**Posts:**2030**Joined:**Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:49 am**Location:**South Wales

First off, I should stress that I merely posted this after someone emailed me a link - it's not my creation!

Am glad this sparked some discussion - I was a little sad when no-one showed interest at first.

And the concept of creating fractal based outputs from analogue synthesis is something I was scared to think about, having imagined it would take row after row of modules to create!

Now I can't wait to rejoin the real world and build me my new video synth.

Am glad this sparked some discussion - I was a little sad when no-one showed interest at first.

And the concept of creating fractal based outputs from analogue synthesis is something I was scared to think about, having imagined it would take row after row of modules to create!

Now I can't wait to rejoin the real world and build me my new video synth.

That's cool Phineas!PhineasFreak wrote:First off, I should stress that I merely posted this after someone emailed me a link - it's not my creation!

Am glad this sparked some discussion - I was a little sad when no-one showed interest at first.

And the concept of creating fractal based outputs from analogue synthesis is something I was scared to think about, having imagined it would take row after row of modules to create!

Now I can't wait to rejoin the real world and build me my new video synth.

I think my "dragon" videos showed that you can more or less get in the fractal ballpark with 3 fm'd video oscillators and a mixer - the first of vidz, over in the doodles-sticky-thead where I'm twisting the frequency range knobs, manually shows it the best. I'm very intrigued by the thought of what could result from adding 1 or 2 more VWGs to the modulation chain (whilst "rotating" the picture using field-sync and audio-rate sequencing, like the 2nd and 3rd videos experimented with).

I still need to set up for the MVIP patch Dave suggested above (maybe tonight if I can tear myself away from my digi-sequencer idea for a couple of hours ).

Anyways, get well soon!

cheers,

n7

- PhineasFreak
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
**Posts:**2030**Joined:**Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:49 am**Location:**South Wales

This has got me thinking of some other exciting possibilities - I would love to investigate the use of fractals, attractors and stuff like fibbonacci's serquence to be the sequencing source or modulation source for perhaps just colour mapping or other relatively basic parameters of video sources in a patch...

Annoyingly having yet to get my hands on modular video synth gear my imagination is slightly limited due to having no clue about likely results from even some basic patches.

There's an incredible temptation to start ordering my system now whilst I'm stuck in here, especially since I'm not spending money on much compared to normal, but common sense dictataes I should wait until I've had the psychiatrist's initial assessment later today and hence at least know a ball park figure of when I might get out...

Annoyingly having yet to get my hands on modular video synth gear my imagination is slightly limited due to having no clue about likely results from even some basic patches.

There's an incredible temptation to start ordering my system now whilst I'm stuck in here, especially since I'm not spending money on much compared to normal, but common sense dictataes I should wait until I've had the psychiatrist's initial assessment later today and hence at least know a ball park figure of when I might get out...