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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Sound of Shadows???
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Flight of Harmony Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Sound of Shadows???
k.rosakruz
Hello muffworld. New here. First post... here we go...

I just got a used FoH SoS today. Upon hooking it up I found that along with the wet signal I get a very loud unpleasant hum which increases in loudness with the feedback amount.

Is the SoS normally a fairly quiet module, or would this be a common problem? In other words, did I get a bum unit? Any thoughts?

Thanks.
zerosum
Welcome to the forum.

It may help others troubleshoot your issue if you could list what kind of case/powering/housing solution you are using for your euro rack.

Also list what other modules you are using with it.

Also, Flight of Harmony does have it's own subforum:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=26
k.rosakruz
Thank you Zerosum.

I am using a monorocket mission6 with mroc psu and distro board.

I ran a tiptop z3000mkII> borg1> vca> sos and
a drumloop> a119> borg1> sos

The dry mix comes through clean, hum only comes with the wet signal.
mamonu
sometimes the position of the module...in the bus is causing this....
as a first troubleshooting try to put SoS in a different place in the case .... and see if it is still doing this...
resetlfo
unfortunately i have the same problem , and since a long i stopped using it and i am near to sell .

the module is very unpredictable, very loud , and sometimes suddenly creating huge noise with small move , and i am tired to damage my speakers with that .

there are great delays around especially coming from Pittsburgh , if you ask my opinion just give it back and wait for the Pittsburgh which is coming out very soon .
julien G
i received mine a monday, send it back two days after.
really didn't like it : it's unpredictable
you cannot be subtle with.
matttech
i know what you mean, but it does have it's uses. you need to attenuate the CV inputs a lot or it will sweep all the way down, which then creates those odd crunching noises (i quite like them though...)

you also have to juggle the feedback and insert knobs to avoid excessive mayhem (eg: if you want long feedback that doesn't get too out of control, turn the insert knob down a bit)

i've had some nice flangey/ phasing effects out of it too, by modulating fast delay times. it's not your usual delay, but definitely has it's uses. i'd like a more "normal" one to complement it, but think i'll keep it as well.
Madrayken
Mine's in pretty much every patch. I don't even consider it a delay. It's a mangler/beat-maker (no, really)/noise-source/uneasiness-inducer. I love its unpredictability. Some amazing sounds seem to erupt from nowhere with little chance of my repeating them.

Ooh. No... I'm coming over all camp...

Due to their ephemeral nature, I find myself treating these sounds the same way Victorians imagined they'd treat fairies; with reverence and in constant fear that they'll flee at any moment never to return.

...and now my overt heterosexuality asserts itself once more.

SoS is fun, fun, fun. As I said in one of Flight's forums: best module in my system (but then I don't own any Metasonix).

If you want a clean, clear delay, then this is not the module you are looking for.

I also have an A-187-1 which has a pretty good, clear delay on it (about a second which is more than any other bar the maaaasssiiivvveee ZDSP, I think). However, it also has a really effective distortion, great-sounding flanger, clean reverb etc, so I'm constantly torn between the different options and delay usually loses.

For pure delay these days I'd probably:
a) buy a mixer with 'send'
b) buy an outboard delay.
nrdvrgr
Really, if you want delay buy something else - SoS does delays, but it is more of a noise/chaos thing than a pure delay.

I must also chime in on the love for it - Madrayken is correct in everything he writes above. Hell, I own two of them! Great stuff, but if your expectations is a well behaving and clean delay you should buy Pittsburgh/Z-DSP or something like that.
matttech
i like CVing my crossfader between a mangled (via SoS) and dry version of a sound (or one messed up through a bitcrusher or summat)

makes for some odd noises, especially if done with an envelope on every note!
zerosum
Everyone has their opinions, but seriously these are the kind of things that KILL me about humanity:

Quote:
the module is very unpredictable, very loud , and sometimes suddenly creating huge noise with small move , and i am tired to damage my speakers with that .


Quote:
send it back two days after.
it's unpredictable
you cannot be subtle with.


That is user error.
Do you seriously think that you can fully understand a module in 2 days? hmmm.....

Subtlety can be achieved, I do it all the time, and now I am inspired to record some more sounds.
That is in the hands of the user, if you can't get a subtle effect, don't blame the module.

Another thing, ANY delay can get very loud and unpredictable at feedback rates above 70 percent, analog, digital, software plugin, space echo, etc. That is what a delay does, it regenerates feedback creating a wall of noise.
Add CV for the feedback and things can get jumpy, but it's not unmanageable.

If you are worried about damaging your speakers, patch a compressor at the end of your patch, or just use an attenuator and leave some headroom for your highest peaks,
I do know that the SOS can get poppy and glitchy and autechreish when being modulated, but if I turn down the volume a bit, I am still able to keep from clipping my converters when a volume spike occurs.

I'll try to make some sounds when I get home.

It's cool if people don't like the module, but when it's user error being blamed on the module, it's hard to not want to say something.

I got an idea, why don't people make some bad sounds with the SOS that they don't like, and I will make a bunch of sounds that I do like! lol

Happy patching 8_) w00t screaming goo yo smile
See ya in a few hours thumbs up
AudioFetish
+1 on being able to do subtle, I use mine as a delay a lot, try attenuating you CV's and be patient it's a cool module
BugBrand
zerosum wrote:
Another thing, ANY delay can get very loud and unpredictable at feedback rates above 70 percent, analog, digital, software plugin, space echo, etc. That is what a delay does, it regenerates feedback creating a wall of noise.


Not so - my PT2399 Delay design standardises signal levels and applies soft clipping in a couple of places precisely so that levels don't ramp up uncontrollably when you crank feedback (or drop delay time way down - that can cause massive noise peaks without circuitry to level things out). This is one part of what I bang on about with applying sensible standards to modular systems - it just takes a little bit of extra care of design.

Saying that, of course the perceived loudness can increase when feeding back to oscillation but signal levels are still maintained at the regular 10V P-to-P.
matttech
right!

in this tune you can hear Sound of Shadows being used in a few different ways at points - have put comments in at the relevant places if you don't have 15 minutes spare to sit through the whole thing!

http://soundcloud.com/spitezoo-experimental-lab/stranded-in-orbit

there is a "normal delay" near the start with a fair bit of feedback, a much shorter one being modulated to create a phasey/ flangey type of effect.....and some other bits where i'm sweeping feedback and delay times up and down. at no point does it become uncontrollable, and i don't remember having to redo any takes as a result.

you just have to find your range with it

hope this helps demonstrate some of what you can do with it
julien G
i might be quite bitter in my last post and i know that behind modules like that, there is people working so i don't want to be disrespectful for that
but
i was looking for a clean delay (no hum, no noise) and my opinion is that sound of shadows delay is not clean.
for sure two days is not enough to go deeper on a module but enough to catch "sound identity" of it.
simply this things was not for me
Madrayken
If you're getting a hum at lower (i.e. less stretched, turned CW) delay levels without feedback turned up, I'd say there's something wrong with the unit.

Feedback introduces... um... feedback. Turn that up and you'll find all sorts of weird oscillations come in. Turn it down if you don't want that.

Dare I ask if you have read the manual? It covers most of this stuff pretty well.
matttech
julien G wrote:
i might be quite bitter in my last post and i know that behind modules like that, there is people working so i don't want to be disrespectful for that
but
i was looking for a clean delay (no hum, no noise) and my opinion is that sound of shadows delay is not clean.
for sure two days is not enough to go deeper on a module but enough to catch "sound identity" of it.
simply this things was not for me


no hum on mine that i've noticed (and i'm a stickler for these things)

that being said, it's certainly not a pristine delay by any means....quite grainy, but that's part of its character i guess. if you want a clean digital delay there are some, but some of them glitch/click when you modulate the delay times.....would annoy me, as they're little static-like clicks that jump out at you

i seemed to find that the delay sounded cleaner with the "insert" turned down....although it also seemed to be less obvious, and the feedback didn't seem as long. the manual says this should merely act as a volume control for the delay, but i'm not so sure about this...
resetlfo
I think its a module which you don't need even 2 hours to understand .

I know all the functions and I know the balance between insert and feedback too.
There is no "user error" . Whole modular world is depending on user errors which we call creation .
Also there is no rule that if I need to use subtle or not. You can use every instrument as the way you want .
So I you use it subtle, that doesnt mean that this is the absolute way .
Otherwise it would sold as Subtile Delay.

You can use a delay however you like, max or subtle and a good module means if it answers for all your needs .
It's just not my cup of tea. I love the modules which are doing things which doesnt meant to do but this one I am not sure .
Has a lot of noise, an there is no depth in the sound . Sound of it is the biggest issue for me than what it is doing .

For me there is only one delay module which stands out, is the AS RS290
There is no euro module produced yet to be comparable with 290







zerosum wrote:
Everyone has their opinions, but seriously these are the kind of things that KILL me about humanity:

Quote:
the module is very unpredictable, very loud , and sometimes suddenly creating huge noise with small move , and i am tired to damage my speakers with that .


Quote:
send it back two days after.
it's unpredictable
you cannot be subtle with.


That is user error.
Do you seriously think that you can fully understand a module in 2 days? hmmm.....

Subtlety can be achieved, I do it all the time, and now I am inspired to record some more sounds.
That is in the hands of the user, if you can't get a subtle effect, don't blame the module.

Another thing, ANY delay can get very loud and unpredictable at feedback rates above 70 percent, analog, digital, software plugin, space echo, etc. That is what a delay does, it regenerates feedback creating a wall of noise.
Add CV for the feedback and things can get jumpy, but it's not unmanageable.

If you are worried about damaging your speakers, patch a compressor at the end of your patch, or just use an attenuator and leave some headroom for your highest peaks,
I do know that the SOS can get poppy and glitchy and autechreish when being modulated, but if I turn down the volume a bit, I am still able to keep from clipping my converters when a volume spike occurs.

I'll try to make some sounds when I get home.

It's cool if people don't like the module, but when it's user error being blamed on the module, it's hard to not want to say something.

I got an idea, why don't people make some bad sounds with the SOS that they don't like, and I will make a bunch of sounds that I do like! lol

Happy patching 8_) w00t screaming goo yo smile
See ya in a few hours thumbs up
matttech
each to their own i guess.....i find it kind of fun, but am still on the look out for a more "normal" delay....or a nice BBD one

the analogue systems reverb/chorus BBD module i had died within a week, distorting and sounding dreadful, so i'm not sure i'd chance another one of theirs (although my rs60 is fine....just the BBDs i'm unsure of now)
resetlfo
matttech wrote:
each to their own i guess.....i find it kind of fun, but am still on the look out for a more "normal" delay....or a nice BBD one

the analogue systems reverb/chorus BBD module i had died within a week, distorting and sounding dreadful, so i'm not sure i'd chance another one of theirs (although my rs60 is fine....just the BBDs i'm unsure of now)


than you had a unlucky situation mate .

Seriously you should go for RS290 . Its just unbelievable .Especially if you are into Karplus world .
matttech
resetlfo wrote:
matttech wrote:
each to their own i guess.....i find it kind of fun, but am still on the look out for a more "normal" delay....or a nice BBD one

the analogue systems reverb/chorus BBD module i had died within a week, distorting and sounding dreadful, so i'm not sure i'd chance another one of theirs (although my rs60 is fine....just the BBDs i'm unsure of now)


than you had a unlucky situation mate .

Seriously you should go for RS290 . Its just unbelievable .Especially if you are into Karplus world .


really? the rs440 was on my wishlist for a while, but i got distracted by the Pittsburgh one....if that ever appears! .....was getting the rs290 confused with that. yours is the digital one....and it's VERY expensive!

unfortunately i've got other things higher up the list at present, but a decent vc-delay is right behind them
resetlfo
matttech wrote:
resetlfo wrote:
matttech wrote:
each to their own i guess.....i find it kind of fun, but am still on the look out for a more "normal" delay....or a nice BBD one

the analogue systems reverb/chorus BBD module i had died within a week, distorting and sounding dreadful, so i'm not sure i'd chance another one of theirs (although my rs60 is fine....just the BBDs i'm unsure of now)


than you had a unlucky situation mate .

Seriously you should go for RS290 . Its just unbelievable .Especially if you are into Karplus world .


really? the rs440 was on my wishlist for a while, but i got distracted by the Pittsburgh one....if that ever appears! .....was getting the rs290 confused with that. yours is the digital one....and it's VERY expensive!

unfortunately i've got other things higher up the list at present, but a decent vc-delay is right behind them


it has great internal modulation possibilities , including a lfo and lfo can be sync , and lfo can be also modulated by Assign inouts .
So imagine you have a delay and all parameters controlled by internal lfo + assign inputs + delay time and dump ..

also panorama can be controlled as it has stereo output and it is 16 bit sampling . Bit rate and sample rate also controlled by internal lfo .

Also it is a Sampler too .

if your next target is a delay with great functions , take my advice.
its expensive a bit , but so that it sounds ....
k.rosakruz
Thank you all for your insights and knowledge.

I have tried relocating the SoS on the buss board as Mamonu suggested to no avail.

Madrayken- I've read the menu and nowhere does it imply the SoS will add an ever present hum to the wet signal. As you suggested I think the unit my be messed up.

I wasn't necessarily looking for clean delay- I have plenty of those. I understand that the SoS has its own unique character.

Matttech- thanks for the audio. Listening to it, I can tell mine mine is out of whack.

You all have been very helpful.
matttech
Yeah....I think there's enough examples near the start that are out there on their own enough for you to hear if there was any noticeable hum. Does yours sound a lot different?
mckenic
Excellent tune matttech!

Here is what I use mine for - all the grainy, spitty crack n crunch I could ever need smile

[s]http://soundcloud.com/mckenic/modular-synth-jam-3[/s]

I bought mine as a diy kit and for ages I thought I'd messed up the build - it acts differently every time I use it - its nuts! But I wouldnt change a thing!!!

k.rosakruz - can you post a sound clip of the noise please?

Thanks for the rs 440 info - interested in getting into Karplus but was thinking more along the Z-Dsp lines...
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