MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

ASR patching examples, demos, etc
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author ASR patching examples, demos, etc
haricots
Ok, so I built one half of my dual ASR over the weekend. Nothing went up in smoke so I can only assume it is working somewhat correctly. So far I've enjoyed patching with it and making lots of noise but honestly, I have no idea if it is even working correctly. Does anyone have any patching tips or even better, video/audio demo's of how a ASR should work? I realize the tuning on my homebuilt unit may be an issue (I didn't match shit in terms of resistors) but I'm not really worried about that part yet.

Thanks fella's ....
dude
mine needed quantizer channels per voice as it was fairly far out of tune. not sure which model you have built. anyway, patch a clock into the clock. s/h clock style. fun for cv recorded clocks that are asymmetrical or otherwise funky. next patch in a slow lfo attenuated to taste for ideal range to the signal in to be sampled at said clock rate. i would start with two vcos for simplicity. i like to tune them first in order to get an idea of their relationship. next send the voltage outs either straight in to 1v/o on the vcos or quantizer first. i like the quantizer option as if you are using the madcon dual..duh you have two and you also get those trig outs which are perfect for triggering the egs in order to finish your amp mod to vcas>monitor situation. those things are capable of some fucking hypnotic shit. if i were you i might consider trying to match some of the components of necessary as they can be very musical when wrangled in as such. enjoy! oh and forgive me if left any of the patch connections out i am doing by memory from a long time ago as i haven't had the module for a while.
sduck
I built 2 of the Dr. Sketch&Etch ones, and they track almost perfectly -

haricots
Wow, mine does not sound that pretty. But, I have a feeling I'm feeding it a way too rapid clock - I'll have to try again after work.

Thanks guys.
dude
slow clocks man! don't shoot for audio rate at first. try something like the tick tock of a clock. that way you will actually hear what is going on!
doctorvague
sduck wrote:
I built 2 of the Dr. Sketch&Etch ones, and they track almost perfectly -



Sweet! I could SO overuse something like that. Waycool.
dude
steve, i want to build that module. and i want one of those damn cgs divider things that kindredlost was doing.
sduck
dude wrote:
steve, i want to build that module. and i want one of those damn cgs divider things that kindredlost was doing.


Dr. Sketch&etch - are you still around? Chime in if you see this - otherwise I've got his email address. He can provide you with either the pcb's or the plans to etch your own (I think I also have that stuff here). I'd link you to the appropriate thread here but am afraid to try the search function.

Dunno about the divider thing - the basic cgs one is easy, you could build one in your sleep, is that what you mean?
dude
i can't etch but i would buy the pcb. do you have the fpd file? how much was that badboy. it is long overdue that i have a lookalike of yours in my system and this sit the one. that video is so fucking awesome and the fact that you get tracking worms my heart electric Eel Power FTW!
the divider will probably have to wait for another day. space is running out of the 'other' side.
haricots
I can't for the life of me to get my ASR to function like your, sduck. But I'm still not sure if something is not correct in the build or I just can't give it the signals it needs. eek! very frustrating
haricots
Hey, I thought I asked this before but can't find any history of it. What goes in these blank areas? I put 100n caps in there but I can't remember why. I guess because I had two left over and I assumed it was a printing error on the board ... or someone told me too. d'oh!

haricots
Horray I fixed it all by my lonesome! It seems I forgot to solder a pin or two. What a douche. Anyway, sounds freaking awesome now!
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
sduck wrote:
dude wrote:
steve, i want to build that module. and i want one of those damn cgs divider things that kindredlost was doing.


Dr. Sketch&etch - are you still around? Chime in if you see this - otherwise I've got his email address. He can provide you with either the pcb's or the plans to etch your own (I think I also have that stuff here). I'd link you to the appropriate thread here but am afraid to try the search function.

Dunno about the divider thing - the basic cgs one is easy, you could build one in your sleep, is that what you mean?

Hey guys, I'm still here. In fact, I just sold two ASR boards to someone in Alberta last week. I can etch and drill you a PCB for $20 + $5 domestic/$10 int'l shipping, or I can build and test the board for $70 ($20 for the PCB + twice my cost for the parts) + $10/$15 shipping. I do Paypal.

Or, if you'd like to "roll yer own" I can email the transfer image and build docs, including the nifty panel connections see in sduck's video.
chamomileshark
that sounds great - really interesting - thanks for posting!
Mitchk1989
Any of these easily build able in euro? Right now we have no ASR.
cerebrosis
sduck wrote:
I built 2 of the Dr. Sketch&Etch ones, and they track almost perfectly -



The switches add so much! I've got to build a expander for my Metalbox ASR.
rezzn8r
wish I could participate in this thread, but I'm still waiting for my ASR. waah
Hope it comes soon!
dude
where'd you get your asr from?

oh and dr has pm.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
yeah, if you'd ordered one from me you'd have it by now. Rockin' Banana!
dude
this is the asr i have been waiting for! funny how life goes.
cerebrosis
rezzn8r wrote:
wish I could participate in this thread, but I'm still waiting for my ASR. waah
Hope it comes soon!


Metalbox frac ear right? I cant wait to see what you do with it we're not worthy
haricots
Damn, now I'm contemplating buy a Dr. Etch-n-Sketch ASR just for the hell of it. I like those switch functions.
rezzn8r
haricots wrote:
Damn, now I'm contemplating buy a Dr. Etch-n-Sketch ASR just for the hell of it. I like those switch functions.


yes, they look mighty fine

cerebrosis wrote:
rezzn8r wrote:
wish I could participate in this thread, but I'm still waiting for my ASR. waah
Hope it comes soon!


Metalbox frac ear right? I cant wait to see what you do with it we're not worthy


me too! hihi
dude
super stoked here. mines supposed to ship next week. i am opting for no switches in my build. just a field of jacks. super simple. my diy setup is getting badass thanks to some awesome awesome people. really accentuating madcon patching possibilities. and i have now come to the point that i am thinking of a single last 1u module in the white beast. very frustrating


edit to add missing w which changes meaning. dual slew is ordered.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
As the dude has mentioned, I am building him an ASR board. I will sell bare PCBs or stuffed boards, but no kits. The reason is simple: if I'm going to go to the trouble of procuring the parts, it takes me less time to stuff and test the board than it would to pack all the parts properly (and it's more fun). Plus this way I can guarantee that the board was shipped in perfect working order, which is important for this particular board since some of the soldering is a bit tricky because of some very fine guard traces in the S&H circuits.

My prices are: $20 for the PCB, $70 for the stuffed and tested board (including all connectors and pins required to wire up to the panel), $10 domestic shipping, $15 European/International shipping.

If you want two or more stuffed PCBs, then I'll offer some sort of discount on the second and subsequent units (say, $10 or $15 off per stuffed board, plus the shipping charge stays the same), as it's much more convenient for me to make these things in multiples.
Jason Brock
Mitchk1989 wrote:
Any of these easily build able in euro? Right now we have no ASR.


The Toppobrillo Quantanimator can function as an ASR. Digitally. So I guess it is technically a DSR.
rezzn8r
Jason Brock wrote:
Mitchk1989 wrote:
Any of these easily build able in euro? Right now we have no ASR.


The Toppobrillo Quantanimator can function as an ASR. Digitally. So I guess it is technically a DSR.


Yeah, my buddy has one of these. I like it. The Chord function is pretty cool, too.
sunsinger
I posted this demo of the STG version of the Ken Stone ASR on Soundcloud sometime back.
[s]http://soundcloud.com/sunsinger/asr-demo-3[/s]
cerebrosis
Hmm. My Metalbox doesnt track anywhere near that good cry

It never bothered me until this thread. What could i do to get it to track like that?
sunsinger
Well, there is that Q171 Quantizer on the outputs of the ASR. So a quantizer makes the pitch pretty sweet.

I've heard that most ASR's need a Quantizer to get perfect pitch, even the Serge, which has twin ASRs, has matching quantizers on the ASR module.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
My updated version of the CGS ASR does not require a quantizer. It may be my version heard in Sunsinger's demo, as STG was building it, but I know he also sent out some based on the original CGS circuit.

In any case, one shouldn't necessarily always blame the ASR. There are two sources of error. One is the voltage being sampled. Some voltage sources may put little tiny voltage spikes on the CV when switching, and these may be captured by the ASR. If this is the case, then the CV source needs a bit of filtering. The other source of error is the ASR itself, and here there are two possibilities: S&H drift and imperfect copying of the voltages. These depend on a lot of things. The first sort of error is easily avoided by using low-leakage caps, low-input-bias-current buffers, and guard traces around the high-impedance traces in the S&H circuits, all of which was done in the original CGS circuit. However, I believe that that circuit is very susceptible to the second kind of error, because of the way the voltages are level-shifted twice. This means that tracking precision depends almost entirely on how well-matched the resistors on the input and output buffers are. This does not occur in my version, in which all the buffers are simple voltage followers with no level shifting.
sduck
I can probably throw together a few of the good doctors asr in motm format (sorry, not really set up to do other formats) - similar to the one in my video - for folks if there's any interest. And the Doctor doesn't mind selling me a few more pcbs. I already sold one to SepticUnderground. I'm not fast, and have another project up first, so it's priced accordingly - 150$ per (and X$ shipping), which means I'm not actually making any money (well, not much anyway) making these. PM me if interested.
diophantine
sduck wrote:
I can probably throw together a few of the good doctors asr in motm format (sorry, not really set up to do other formats) - similar to the one in my video - for folks if there's any interest.


I'd very likely start a MOTM cabinet if I could go entirely with your panel designs!!
sunsinger
If Dr. Sketch & Etch is you Ken. I'd love to get one of your ASR's. Please tell me how.

The demo I posted was indeed a prototype from STG, and even it, did track pretty well. I just put the quantizer on it for closer to perfect pitch.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
sunsinger wrote:
If Dr. Sketch & Etch is you Ken. I'd love to get one of your ASR's. Please tell me how.

The demo I posted was indeed a prototype from STG, and even it, did track pretty well. I just put the quantizer on it for closer to perfect pitch.

Sorry, I'm not Ken Stone. I'm Dave Dixon. However, my ASR design is an update of Ken's, done with his blessing.

I'm just putting the finishing touches on a stuffed board for "dude". I can do one for you too, if you want.

Bare PCB: $20. Stuffed PCB: $70. Shipping: $10 (US/Canada), $15 (anywhere else)
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Actually, shipping to the dark side of the moon is going to be a tad more expensive! lol
sunsinger
@ Dr. Sketch-n- Etch,

I couldn't DYI a panel on any level even if I have video instruction. I'd need an actual module for plug-n-play.

I do receive periodic shipments to the dark side of the moon courtesy of Dr. Gerard K. O'neil's supercooled mass driver. I can PM you his address to ship one to, so he can fire it off to me during an open window for my trajectory. 8_)
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Well, my panels are pretty plain compared to sduck's. They're bare aluminum with plain black laserjet lettering (laid out with Front Panel Designer) printed backwards on Lazertran which is baked on for a durable plastic coating. I'll take a picture tomorrow and post it. The ASR panel is 5U x 1U (U = 1.75").

For a whole module, I'd charge probably $120 + shipping. That's $20 for the PCB, $50 to stuff the PCB, and $50 for the panel, hardware and wiring.

Alternatively, you could order your own panel from FPE and send it to me, or perhaps sduck could get you one of his fancy panels. Then I'd probably knock $20 off the price.
cerebrosis
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch

Is it possible to have my CGS34 modified to your specs or instructions to do it?
sduck
No need to get my "fancy" panel from me - here's the fpd for it - order your own! You can even change whatever you want - get rid of all those garish colors or whatever.

The one thing I would add after having used this for a while is yet another switch - one to lock out the input knob. There's plenty of room, and this would be easy peasy to do. Once too often while using the ASR I've managed to jostle the knob, which throws off the otherwise fantastic pitch properties of this device.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
cerebrosis wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch

Is it possible to have my CGS34 modified to your specs or instructions to do it?

Probably not, unless (by some miracle) the DG409 has the same pinouts as the CD4052. I'll have to look into that and get back to you.

In any case, you can always swap out that board for one or mine. They're about the same size, and both have just 5 (or 6) connections.
dude
by the way, what are the measurements for the board? i am about to see about my bsdiy bracket nonsense. i should probably wait but i am too excited and feel like i need to drill holes on things!
JohnLRice
Is STG still going to produce an ASR? hmmm..... Or was that module shelved?
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
dude wrote:
by the way, what are the measurements for the board? i am about to see about my bsdiy bracket nonsense. i should probably wait but i am too excited and feel like i need to drill holes on things!

The board is nominally 2.1" x 4.5", and the mounting holes are set 0.15" from the corners. Hence, the holes are centred on the corners of a rectangle which is 1.8" x 4.2". They're 1/8" diameter.
dude
thank you sir! preping for drilling. SlayerBadger!
dude
i am so stoked to patch this with the touch sequencer! here is a pic of my build sans panel behind it:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
cerebrosis wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch

Is it possible to have my CGS34 modified to your specs or instructions to do it?

Short answer, no. The CGS34 will only work with CD4052, which is the cause of all the problems with that design.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
JohnLRice wrote:
Is STG still going to produce an ASR? hmmm..... Or was that module shelved?

He was going to work my design into a module, I thought, but it seems to take him a very long time to get designs off the drawing board and into production.
JohnLRice
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
Is STG still going to produce an ASR? hmmm..... Or was that module shelved?

He was going to work my design into a module, I thought, but it seems to take him a very long time to get designs off the drawing board and into production.
Thanks! Maybe I'll start a post over in the STG forum. thumbs up
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Just to clear up any mystery about it, if you want an ASR board from me, please just ask. The price is $20 Canadian.

In fact, any of my boards are available at any time. Have a look here for a list with prices:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21058
dude
pcb arrived in immaculate condition, stuffed and even has wire connectors so i should have it up and running when i get back tonight. super jazzed. the doctor is amazing. BUY HIS STUFF IN LARGE QUANTITIES NOW!!!!!
sunsinger
@John: STG seems very busy prepping the Archangel sequencer for public consumption. He's told me that new design offerings have been tabled for a bit until he finishes work on the sequencer.

Apparently all of the items offered on his webpage are in production and available. Factor in the lead time posted on his site.

I always get things fairly promptly from him. I'm chomping at the bit for some of his new designs to come out. I do hope the STG brings your ASR out DR. S&E.
I think you may have built the one I have. I used it sans Quantizer when I first got it. Michael Stearns has shared a great patch with me, which I'll pass on and demo when my 2nd ASR comes from the good Dr.

Stearns, a master of the Mighty Serge, had used the Dual ASR without the quantizers to some very rich effects. I hope to do as well with his help.
JohnLRice
Thanks Dr. Sketch-n-Etch and Sunsinger! STG replied to my question when asked in his subforum. It is still happening! thumbs up Here is the thread:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40050
dude
here is one i just did. some explanations in the video. the thing is amazing. seriously musical, plus you can use it as a bitcrusher!!!!
Navs
Here's a couple of tracks recorded with the Plan B M23 ASR:

http://navsmodularlab.blogspot.com/2010/03/potd-patch-collective.html

http://navsmodularlab.blogspot.com/2009/11/potd-organ-grinder.html

Both use the ASR 'traditionally' to generate a canon, but some things you can try is to shift modulation data e.g. CV > speed of 2 LFOs, envelope decays or VCA 'velocity' etc. Another trick is to quantize a pitch CV post-ASR, depending on the initial tuning of your VCOs. You could also use it to sample and delay gate signals i.e. on/ off rather than discrete CVs.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Hey navs, on your webpage you mention that the slow rising is the sound of a "voltage-loaded, but untriggered, Plan B M23 ASR." How is this possible? Isn't it rather that the ASR is triggered in the audio range so that the increases sound continuous? Or does the clock somehow hold the S&H's open when the clock input is held positive? I don't see how that could work, since then all four S&H's would be seeing the same voltage (or is that the point?), and the triggers would have to be very short and offset in time for the classic ASR function to work at all.

Or is this a manifestation of S&H voltage drift?

I'm confused! hmmm.....
Navs
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Or is this a manifestation of S&H voltage drift?


I think it's this. Some S&Hs droop, the Plan B rises. It's seriously, i just don't get it but musically useful.

I could try it again to see if the rising pitch is dependent on whether the stalled clock is high or low.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Whoa, that's weird! It could be musically useful (it sure sounds cool in your clip), but S&H circuits that drift that fast aren't too flash in my book.

I read the description of the M23 circuit on the Plan B website with interest, and the S&H chip sounded pretty flash. I'm surprised that it drifts so badly.

In my updated CGS ASR circuit (which is only 3 stages), the S&H circuits are very simple: just low-leakage metallized polypropylene film caps and low input bias current buffers (LF444) accessed by rail-to-rail bipolar digital switches (DG409). They drift very very slowly. If one loops the 3rd output back to the input and clocks the ASR at audio rates, then the three stored-and-shifted voltages will drift downward at roughly the same rate as heard in your clip, but this is because of switch leakage (which is unavoidable, even with high-quality switches like DG409).
Navs
Thanks for the info, Dr. !

The M23 product page does mention this:

"... in accordance with the specs of the SMP04, if a tap is held for more than 5 or so seconds the Model 23 may exhibit a slight rise in output voltages across all taps at a rate of approx. of 2mv per second."

http://www.ear-group.net/model_23.html

I found something similar on the Ken Stone site:

"Due to the inversion used in the inputs and outputs of this circuit, the voltage droop is upside down! As the capacitors lose their charge, the output voltages will rise!"

http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs34_asr.html

The only shame with the M23 is, due to the drop/ rise, one can't reliably patch a feedback loop.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Navs wrote:
The only shame with the M23 is, due to the drop/ rise, one can't reliably patch a feedback loop.

It sounds like you might be ready to graduate to the Sketch-n-Etch-Updated-Catgirl-Synth-Inspired ASR!

Boards are $20, Stuffed boards are $70, complete modules (5U only) are $120. I'm just about finished with a dual version for Sunsinger ($240) so you can ask him how he likes it in a couple weeks. However, some of his lovely Soundcloud clips were made with one of my boards (which he obtained, unbeknownst to me at the time, via Suit and Tie Guy) if you want to take a listen.
Navs
Haha! Love one, but unfortunately I'm Euro-only.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Page 1 of 3
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group