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8 bus mixers
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 [all]
Author 8 bus mixers
calaveras
Don't the Speck mixers not have direct outs?
I'd checked them out before and they seemed really solid. Also very compact and feature dense. Like every square inch is an input or output. But there was some key thing that they didn't have that I was looking for in a mixer.
calaveras
Specks are great. Very feature rich, input dense mixers.
But I get the impression they are meant for keyboard rigs, not recording.
I don't think they have direct outs or tape sends per input channel.
MindMachine
From the Speck SSM archive page: "The rear of each input channel has stereo input jacks, and stereo direct output jacks.'

You are correct. They are line mixers meant for Synthesizers and Samplers - thus SSM (synth sampler mixer). Some of them were made with microphone preamps. Each one was basically made to order, so there are stereo, mono, mic pre, etc. versions. It is mainly a stereo out board with individual outs, mainly intended for live use.

I have the SSM, SSM Expander and Assign 28 8 Buss mixer. I record improvised live electronics so it is ideal for me. 8 effects sends is a good thing.

calaveras
Now I remember. I went to the Speck site and they seem to only make the X-Sum and LiLo now?
rockmanrock
I've been mixer swapping lately. I had a Soundcraft Spirit Rac-pac since the 90s and it was quite alright, but I got the urge to get a 'big' mixer.

After years of "live synths to a stereo mix" approach, I have decided to embrace multitracking, so I wanted a recording mixer. If not a recording mixer, a general/live mixer with plenty of channels and direct outs. Ideally I would have got a Spirit Studio 24:8:2 or a Ghost but fitting any 8 bus in my room would have chewed up most of the space so that was a no-go.

I've ended up with a Behringer MX3242X. It's a 16 into 4 bus recording mixer, based on their MX8000/9000 Eurodesk. Same EQ (with bypass) and full size faders. Meters on everything. Honking great 2U linear power supply. 16 channels with a tape return that can be flipped to the channel fader. 4 groups with inserts. Six sends with masters. 4 stereo returns. Virtualizer effects normalled to one send/return.

I've not got it all set up yet, but first impressions are that it's going to do the job. I had to clean the connectors on the ribbon cables to get some channels back. The channel gain pots on the main board are looped to the preamps on the jack connectors board, so any extra resistance in the connection means very low gain - a 'dead' channel'. The main appeal is the size, 19" wide and 53cm deep. A scaled down 'big' mixer - exactly what I wanted! It can even be expanded with another mixer via a D connector that has all the main ins/outs on it.

I've recapped the power supply and bought a quieter fan. Any repairs to the main PCBs are going to be dicey, the traces look very thin. Mostly SMT with through hole electrolytic/film caps.

Here are my notes on other mixers that I considered. Most of them too big. Quite a few Behringers! They're all through-hole "motherboard" construction, a pain to repair but not impossible.

Behringer MX3282a

101cm wide, 53cm deep. Too wide really, but not too deep.
8 bus. Lots of channels for gear or to use as split desk.
24 mono + 4 stereo channels.
No direct outs. Not a proper recording mixer.
Send masters.
4 stereo returns, 2 full featured and 2 simple.
Basic EQ. No EQ bypass.

Behringer MX2442a

72cm wide, 50cm deep
16 mono plus 4 stereo channels.
Send masters.
2 stereo returns with level and pan.
28 inputs plus 2 track.
4 groups with inserts.
No direct outs. Not enough channels to leave DAW returns plumbed in.
Not a recording mixer.
Basic EQ, no bypass.

A&H GS3 / Thatched Cottage S2

Great specs.
8 groups.
Inline recording design.
EQ on inline monitor returns.
Individual channel PCBs.
79cm x 72cm deep.


Alesis Studio 32

Full para eq with switch.
16 tape returns.
No Group inserts.
'Bad' pres.

Spirit Studio

Tape returns.
Good EQ (no bypass though).
8 groups
16 Channel 88 x 894 x 771.5
24 Channel 88 x 1174 x 771.5
32 Channel 88 x 1454 x 771.5
Too bloody big.

Behringer MX8000/9000/SX4882.

Great spec. MX probably better PSU.
940 x 750mm (same for both models?)
A fucker to repair.
Sockets on top AND the back, so would take up another 2/3 inches of desk space.

Soundcraft Ghost 24

106cm x 78cm
Too big.

Behringer XL2400

705 x 540mm
16 mono, 4 stereo = 24 input channels
Dir outs on monos.
6 sends. 2 monitor, 2 fx, 2 aux.
4 stereo aux returns.
4 groups with inserts.
Quite big, and not a recording mixer.


Soundcraft MPMi20

Individual channel PCBs with nutted pots.
ONE group.
Not enough aux sends.
Not a recording mixer.

Soundcraft Delta

16:4 is 80cm by 67cm
24:4 is 105cm by 67cm
Inputs on the back.
Not a recording mixer.

Soundtracs Topaz

Uses the same crappy jacks that I didn't like on my Rac-pac.
Motherboard and non nutted pots. Not good for a console this size and cost.
Good specs though? EQ on inline monitors.

Seck 1882

99.5cm x 46cm. Bit wide.
Motherboard design. 6-channel blocks. TL072 and 5532, like Soundcraft.
8 groups with inserts
No mute buttons!
18 channels with monitors, so that's 36 total.
Monitors can be patched to one of the 4 stereo returns.
Spares from http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/seck.htm
Review http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/seck-1282-mixer/1648

Tascam 2516

77cm x 64cm
EQ seems disliked. Weird groups.
M2600 lot better.
MindMachine
^ Awesome write up. Hopefully your efforts benefit more than a few. Genuinely nice to take the time. we're not worthy

That Seck looks so dense.

I have been trying to learn my Korg D888 digital recorder and am considering actually using a laptop to record to, but I am slow to learn new shit. Congrats on the multi-track step.

With technology I'm still all:

rockmanrock
MindMachine wrote:
^ Awesome write up. Hopefully your efforts benefit more than a few. Genuinely nice to take the time. we're not worthy


Thanks!

MindMachine wrote:

That Seck looks so dense.


As used by Autechre! My Rac-pac was based on the Seck stuff so if it sounds like that it should be alright. Most of these mixers have some weird features though. My Rac-pac had 4 groups but no group inserts, and the channels had to go through the groups to get to the main mix (fixed on Behringer's MX2642a copy!). With this Seck, there are a load of buttons for assigning to groups but no mute buttons! And the tape returns have to be patched to an aux return if they are used as extra inputs and heard in the main mix. On other mixers that is just a button push away. The shallow depth is good though, no connectors on the rear so it can be shoved up against a wall, and there's room left at the front of a standard desk for a computer keyboard. A computer screen can then hover over the mixer with one of those gas/spring arms. I've got one of those lined up to go over the Behringer.

MindMachine wrote:

I have been trying to learn my Korg D888 digital recorder and am considering actually using a laptop to record to, but I am slow to learn new shit. Congrats on the multi-track step.

With technology I'm still all:

[img]https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/userpix2
/1267_untitled_41.png[/img]


Yes, it's a different approach for me. My "live to 2 track" mixes have never been balanced or structured right, so with this set-up the plan is that I could do a live jam and capture it multitrack, then edit it ITB and mix it OTB.

This all started when I decided to clean my room and gear. I ripped all my cabling out and then got carried away! I've got a load of patchbays to solder now. The whole project has chewed up so much time but hopefully now it will not change and I can focus on the music. Your Korg looks like a neat self-contained box. There are so many ways to approach it all these days.
Ranxerox
Bit of a necro thing here, funny reading back over it - I missed my old Soundtracs Solo MIDI so much that I recently bought another. It's a 16 channel frame, but retains the 8 buses and all other features of the 32 channel I used to own. And the weight- almost did myself in lifting the thing...

Got a new blue dog PSU coming for it, we'll see if that tidies up the noise side of things. Always liked the EQ, also something about the mix bus seems to glue the mix together nicely.
DJMaytag
Does one have to go "modular" to get what I'm looking for?

24 channels
8 busses
Direct outs on each channel
EQ not needed (preferable without, actually)
Simple controls: pan, phase, HPF, aux sends

Basically a Mackie 8-Bus sans the EQ section. I have a Mackie 24-8, but DAMN is it big...
widdly
Why don't you want EQ? Most mixers let you switch it out. I find it is pretty essential for getting a decent mix.
DJMaytag
widdly wrote:
Why don't you want EQ? Most mixers let you switch it out. I find it is pretty essential for getting a decent mix.

I’d rather have EQ’s in my rack. The size of a Mackie 8-Bus could almost be halved if the EQ section was scrapped.
flts
The first one that came to my mind was Speck Xtramix or two X-Sums, but the first one is discontinued and neither them exactly matches the spec. However, if you're specifically looking for compact size, then those could be worth checking out quickly...
DJMaytag
Speck’s LiLo might be pretty close to what I want, but it’s still pretty big and that $10k price tag though...

It’s pretty crazy that this things makes a Neve 8816 look affordable, and FWIW, what I have in mind is closer to a summing mixer than a full fledged console.
MindMachine
edit - Never mind... 8 busses required. Some old Teac line mixers have cue outs and 4-8 busses, but... large.

DJMaytag wrote:
Speck’s LiLo might be pretty close to what I want, but it’s still pretty big and that $10k price tag though...

It’s pretty crazy that this things makes a Neve 8816 look affordable, and FWIW, what I have in mind is closer to a summing mixer than a full fledged console.


http://www.speck.com/xtramix/xmix_2.html

Maybe this?

The old Rolands like the M240 or M160?

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=629&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=ApTeW8 yhL8mW0wKaxLWoCQ&q=roland+m240+mixer&oq=roland+m240+mixer&gs_l=img.3.. 0i24.67004.70301..70519...0.0..0.139.613.2j4......1....1..gws-wiz-img. ......0i7i30j0i8i7i30.US4TP9rq63Y
DJMaytag
MindMachine wrote:
http://www.speck.com/xtramix/xmix_2.html

Maybe this?

Yeah, that’s pretty damn sweet (and close enough), but discontinued and hard to find for sale under $2k.
Midiot
I dream of a Speck Xtramix, but they rarely appear for sale (used).

I'm thinking of the Speck X-sum plus an external "passive monitor controller" that has dual outputs.... so the second set of outputs can be routed through outboard effects, and back into 2 channels of the Speck.

A patchbay can help a lot here, too.

Here is a thread on Gearsluts, where the owner of Speck suggests some routing possibilities....

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/353549-aux -bussing-speck-x-sum.html

.
Midiot
BTW... if you are looking for a "quality" mixer or summing solution, check-out Vintage King 's website....
....even if just to be aware of what's out there.

https://vintageking.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=summing+mixer
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