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ciat-lonbarde cocoquantus
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Ciat-Lonbarde Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author ciat-lonbarde cocoquantus
pas
Back on the topic of generative function (from the plumbutter thread), the cocoquantus I feel, is unparalleled in it's ability to act as source, thru, & cv in this regard. I find that I am able to create a multidimensional reflection of a composition w/in a composition. Richard is absolutely right when he calls the design an 'apex of self-playing machines.' The possibilities in generative study w/ it are literally endless & endlessly involved.
Scories
pas wrote:
I find that I am able to create a multidimensional reflection of a composition w/in a composition.


I like that statement. Makes me think of a hall of mirrors.

Do you have some audio files to illustrate this intriguing aspect of the Cocoquantus.. with or without the mod? smile
pas
Scories wrote:
pas wrote:
I find that I am able to create a multidimensional reflection of a composition w/in a composition.


I like that statement. Makes me think of a hall of mirrors.

Do you have some audio files to illustrate this intriguing aspect of the Cocoquantus.. with or without the mod? smile


I do, but you'll have to buy my records haha...I'll find something suitable to present here, i'm far too picky & lazy when it comes to posting tracks on the forum. I'm trying to be better about this.
Scories
You don't have a Bandcamp?

I'm too lazy to get a Soudcloud page. And I never had a Myspace/facebook/blog page but I managed to get a nice Bandcamp page.

Anyway, what's your artist name? Do you have a website?
dude
so today i have undertaken attempting to label my sidrassi in order to differentiate nodes easily, without paper hints. at first i thought i'd use colored threads tied in a bow around nodes and on a leg of each barre. then i thought about those colored pipe cleaners. too much space on node taken up. now i am thinking puffy paint. i want it to be pretty, neatly done but discernible. the diamond motif seemed interesting but finding fake gems...well yeah that isn't going to happen. puffy paint could be found in a multipack for less than too much. any ideas?
pas
Dude, you could use paint markers, like silver & gold, the kind you have to shake then dip just the tops of each node, might wear off a bit over time, but would look pretty slick.
dude
I tried paint markers. It didnt looj right. Plus my scheme requires 13 colors.
pas
What about orthodontic elastic bands?
dude
you got any braces?
pas
I never had braces, the thought just arrived...I remember a girlfriend who had them & they came in many colors.
dude
i had actually thought about dental bands but it didn't seem right. the puffy paint while maybe not ideal, comes in enough colors and could be strategically placed without messing with the barre/node function.
dude
i saw a multipack for 20 bucks at the craft store tonight. i should've snagged it. plus it would come off easy without being to much trouble i think if i needed/wanted to remove for some reason.
pas
http://www.amazon.com/Orthodontic-Elastics-COLORED-Grooming-Dreadlocks  /dp/B0047VDD4I

I see what yr saying, still though, you could have yr dreadlocks match yr node color scheme.
pugix
Ok, about the lozenge/cercles. The logic of it is described in this thread, in which I didn't mention it was the cocoquantus.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57690&highlight=comb inatorial

The quantussy of five oscillators cross-modulate in a most interesting way. Each oscillator has a 'partner', one of the other four. The cercle jogs a counter that cycles through which of the other four is selected to be the partner. It also toggles another mode (that the blue LED indicates, more later). Each oscillator has a set of three LEDs in the lozenge that indicate the state of this counter.

Internally, each oscillator has two sample and holds that are triggered by the oscillator at its frequency rate. Into one of the S&H comes the triangle output of the 'partner'. The output of that S&H is the Castle out. Into the other S&H comes the Castle output of the 'partner'. The output of this second S&H stays inside to FM the oscillator itself. The depth of this FM is controlled by the Chaos pot.

The lozenge indicates which other oscillator is currently the partner of the oscillator associated with the LEDs (the red and green indicate the partner selection). Now the Blue LED indicates whether the two Sample and Holds are in sample/hold or track/hold mode. When the Blue LED is on they are track/hold, which means that for 1/2 of the cycle, the Castle output is tracking (i.e. passing through) the partner triangle. This is easier to observe at low frequencies. (A 'scope helps, too.)

We figured out on the 'combinatorial' thread that there exist 13 distinct possible interconnection combinations of the quantussy, if you consider the five oscillators as all equivalent. Of course they aren't, because each can be in one of three ranges.

Got all that? This is why I find it so ingenious. I figured it out by studying the schematic while doing experiments to see how it behaved. Now I understand it pretty well. But you don't need to understand this to use it well. I've concluded that it's design intentionally thwarts linear thinking and planning. It helps you to not plan, but to discover. P.B. is a genius.

I have one more point to stress. The quantussy is one thing, with five 'aspects'. It is not five separate oscillators. They share a common rate pot and chaos pot. If you do the 'FM mod' then you can individually modulate each oscillator, but what do you put into that? Probably one of the 10 outputs. So it's still all one complex entity. The incredible, interesting, and unpredictable behaviors are exactly due to the way it self-modulates.
pas
& that's the post of the month Richard, you've painted a clearer picture of the lozenge mystery ha...'genius' is a word I rarely use, but Peter truly is.
pugix
dude wrote:
so today i have undertaken attempting to label my sidrassi in order to differentiate nodes easily, without paper hints. at first i thought i'd use colored threads tied in a bow around nodes and on a leg of each barre. then i thought about those colored pipe cleaners. too much space on node taken up. now i am thinking puffy paint. i want it to be pretty, neatly done but discernible. the diamond motif seemed interesting but finding fake gems...well yeah that isn't going to happen. puffy paint could be found in a multipack for less than too much. any ideas?


Wow. You guys had a whole discussion while I was writing that long lozenge explanation. lol

Dude, I predict that no matter how well you label the nodes, it won't help you a great deal when playing. Might be nice to know which are inputs and which outputs, but even that may not matter too much. I don't have a Sidrassi or Sidrazzi, but I think Peter B's design is to flummox attempts at systematic approaches to playing his instruments. I like to try and understand the circuits, but I have surrendered when it comes to playing. Sounds to me like you've been getting along quite well without the labels so far. Let us know if or how it seems to help.
pas
I understood that the five oscillators all work together, cross-modulate/breed, but i was unable to figure out how exactly, & in cooperation w/ the s&h it gets fuzzy. Basically the s&h was the part that was throwing me off, this makes a lot more sense, that the track & hold runs for 1/2 of the cycle then switches partners.
pas
I still refuse to think about the technical innards of the cocoquantus whilst preparing/playing a piece, but I'm so fascinated by the design that I can't help but look, unravel the subtext.
pugix
pas wrote:
I understood that the five oscillators all work together, cross-modulate/breed, but i was unable to figure out how exactly, & in cooperation w/ the s&h it gets fuzzy. Basically the s&h was the part that was throwing me off, this makes a lot more sense, that the track & hold runs for 1/2 of the cycle then switches partners.


It doesn't switch partners by itself. Partner switching only happens with inputs to the cercle, i.e. when the LEDs change. That is externally controlled. Of course if you patch a triangle output to the cercle of its own oscillator, then it will use a different partner each cycle. SlayerBadger!

In track/hold mode, it means that for 1/2 cycle of the oscillator the castle output is the partner's triangle. The second half of the cycle, it holds at the voltage the partner's triangle was at. Slew for a half cycle, then hold. Contrast with sample/hold mode, where each 1/2 cycle the castle output acquires the instantaneous level of the partner's triangle. Plain old S&H. Note that the partner is sampled twice during each full cycle of the oscillator. Took me a while to get that, but it's clear from the schematic.
dude
pugix wrote:
dude wrote:
so today i have undertaken attempting to label my sidrassi in order to differentiate nodes easily, without paper hints. at first i thought i'd use colored threads tied in a bow around nodes and on a leg of each barre. then i thought about those colored pipe cleaners. too much space on node taken up. now i am thinking puffy paint. i want it to be pretty, neatly done but discernible. the diamond motif seemed interesting but finding fake gems...well yeah that isn't going to happen. puffy paint could be found in a multipack for less than too much. any ideas?


Wow. You guys had a whole discussion while I was writing that long lozenge explanation. lol

Dude, I predict that no matter how well you label the nodes, it won't help you a great deal when playing. Might be nice to know which are inputs and which outputs, but even that may not matter too much. I don't have a Sidrassi or Sidrazzi, but I think Peter B's design is to flummox attempts at systematic approaches to playing his instruments. I like to try and understand the circuits, but I have surrendered when it comes to playing. Sounds to me like you've been getting along quite well without the labels so far. Let us know if or how it seems to help.


no i patch with intent fairly often. have the nodes mapped. tet is far different than sid in that regard. you should try one.
mudlogger
Reading up alot about the coco.

Would there be any benefit in replacing the nodes with banana jacks to allow better integration with a modular?

Just looking at this and the plumbutter got me thinking.
pugix
mudlogger wrote:
Reading up alot about the coco.

Would there be any benefit in replacing the nodes with banana jacks to allow better integration with a modular?

Just looking at this and the plumbutter got me thinking.


It's impossible to replace the nodes with jacks. Or at least very difficult. The screws are soldered directly into the PC board. I can't imagine removing the board, ever. I'm wondering if the PB has the bananas soldered into the PC board in the same fashion. Too bad, because this makes repair difficult.

My solution for patching is to use alligator clips that accept a banana plug.
pugix
dude wrote:
pugix wrote:
dude wrote:
so today i have undertaken attempting to label my sidrassi in order to differentiate nodes easily, without paper hints. at first i thought i'd use colored threads tied in a bow around nodes and on a leg of each barre. then i thought about those colored pipe cleaners. too much space on node taken up. now i am thinking puffy paint. i want it to be pretty, neatly done but discernible. the diamond motif seemed interesting but finding fake gems...well yeah that isn't going to happen. puffy paint could be found in a multipack for less than too much. any ideas?


Wow. You guys had a whole discussion while I was writing that long lozenge explanation. lol

Dude, I predict that no matter how well you label the nodes, it won't help you a great deal when playing. Might be nice to know which are inputs and which outputs, but even that may not matter too much. I don't have a Sidrassi or Sidrazzi, but I think Peter B's design is to flummox attempts at systematic approaches to playing his instruments. I like to try and understand the circuits, but I have surrendered when it comes to playing. Sounds to me like you've been getting along quite well without the labels so far. Let us know if or how it seems to help.


no i patch with intent fairly often. have the nodes mapped. tet is far different than sid in that regard. you should try one.


It's true I don't yet have a Sid in my stable of Ciat-Lonbarde instruments. I should spring for Sidrazziassi. Hope they remain available. Do you have a Sidrassi or Sidrazziassi? All the nodes are on the top, is that correct?
dude
i have the old assi. tabletop layout. nodes all on top. i love it to death. the nodes on top are key for me. it sits on a table next to its brethren. i patch it with intent a lot that way. send stuff into the bend matrix etc. it is a lot different than the tet. much mellower and i find it easier to collaborate with. it leads me, but i also lead it. now of course if i had spent more time with tet i am sure i would feel clearer about its use in practice. but the sid feels very moldable. a huge range of sounds and routings. extremely playable. the patching possibilities are wide enough that i think it pays off to have it mapped. it certainly won't prohibit me fro play 'naturally', but when i want to get scientific, i won't have to use a sheet of paper.
bartlebooth
pugix wrote:
I'm wondering if the PB has the bananas soldered into the PC board in the same fashion.


yes, it does. all of peter's new pcbs starting with sidrazzi have been designed with the case layout in mind to minimize the rat's nest of wires and make building the instruments less laborious. so in order for the production cocoquantus to have bananas peter would have to redesign the circuit board to accommodate banana jack spacing. that probably will happen someday but its pretty low on his priority list right now (behind plumbutter, tetrax, shbobo,etc).
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