Mixing with headphones...

astroschnautzer · Post by **astroschnautzer** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:52 am

I donÃ‚Â¨t have any monitors at the moment, am trying to mix with headphones with not so good results, any of those "mix with headphones" plugins out there for mac?

rekem1000 · Post by **rekem1000** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:25 pm

How good are your 'phones?

I'm so usd to my Beyer DT880's I can get pretty close to the same results as my BM5A's. It'll come down to how welll you know your 'phone's sound and being able to compensate for real world listening.

Those mix with 'phone's apps will only make things worse.

tIB · Post by **tIB** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:30 pm

Ive been mixing on allesandro MS1's for the past 3 years now. no plugs needed, just a decent set of headphones that you know well and have cross referenced plenty.

Babaluma · Post by **Babaluma** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:44 pm

yeah just keep at it and keep listening to a) your mixes on as many other systems as possible, and b) your favourite music through the same headphones. keep comparing and contrasting. after a few years you should get quite good at it.

mojopin · Post by **mojopin** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:44 pm

yeah, no plugins. they always make it sound much worse. i feel that mixing with quality headphones (i use hd800 with dac-1) is superior to monitors for making tonal decisions minus the sub range. or you can look it as getting more bang for your buck.

heidi oyala · Post by **heidi oyala** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:48 pm

i would not mix (only) with headphones - it is ok to make music/sketches with it - but a mix?
i was never happy with it - i have a sennheiser hd 25

tIB · Post by **tIB** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:51 pm

^ needs must.

widdly · Post by **widdly** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:19 pm

I can never get the bass balanced properly if I mix only on headphones. Listening to a mix on hifi speakers somewhere else then trying to fix it with headphones back in the studio is hard. I guess it takes practice and more listening.

dogoftears · Post by **dogoftears** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:54 pm

make sure you have yr multimeter open and dont try to embelish frequencies below 80 hz. figure out the compensation between your headphones and other sound systems. everything is opposite day on phones- highs will be louder and bass lower, but this is "normal"....

i find it difficult to mix on phones alone but i have many friends who pull it off with marvelous results so i know it's possible. they are really nice for actually hearing how much mid range detail you've got.

sony MDR's here... old six shooter.

hiawog · Post by **hiawog** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:27 pm

i probably didn't try it long enough, but it wasn't working for me. even flawed monitors, now that i'm getting to know them, are definitely helping me get better results. but i think it's very important to listen to your mix on a few different systems and try to stabilize it. often painful and humiliating, but really helpful.

hdd · Post by **hdd** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:54 am

astroschnautzer wrote:I donÃ‚Â¨t have any monitors at the moment, am trying to mix with headphones with not so good results, any of those "mix with headphones" plugins out there for mac?

Plug won't really, help you, it'll solve some stereo phasing problems but i don't think it's the main problem when you mix with headphones.
The problem is that ears are pretty quick tired with headphones, and then you loose a lot of sensation in the dynamic sections, there won't be any plug for this.
I compose a lot with headphones but i never mix with.

astroschnautzer · Post by **astroschnautzer** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:18 am

Thanks for the answers,so no plugins it is then, guess its just a matter of getting used to headphone mixing now then

I'm mixing mixing on apair of akgk204 studio headphones, but I'm soon changing to sennheiser hd25 for more portability... The main problem I have is with stereo imaging, making the mixes too "narrow" and I compress more with headphones too, my mixes end up "claustrophobic"

....

melodydad · Post by **melodydad** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:53 am

I think a lot of it is getting to know what it is you are hearing - whether you are using headphones or monitors.

Sennheiser HD650 maybe (although I find them a bit heavy and tiring to wear for long periods, but HD25???? I personally would not want to mix using them . . .. although I have used them just for stereo editing.

I just got a pair of the KRK8400's and so far am liking what I hear - and how they feel

astroschnautzer · Post by **astroschnautzer** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:19 am

melodydad wrote: but HD25???? I personally would not want to mix using them . . .. although I have used them just for stereo editing.

Well, I would need them anyway for their ability to use in loud situations , but if they are not good for mixing then I probably just stick with the akg's for mixing...I guess they are ok for that...

Hainbach · Post by **Hainbach** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:11 pm

Yeah, stick with the AKGs or get K701. You will need an open back headphone for mixing. I have to mix a lot outside of my studio and find it always helpful to have a portable pair of speakers to get the overall balance right. Even humble macbooks speakers will tell you easier if your vocals are drowning then the best headphones can. Also, put a mono switch on the master to check levels. Stereo sounds can really mess with your perception of balance.

tuj · Post by **tuj** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:57 pm

you need monitors and headphones. only the combination will give you proper mixing. even then, two sets of monitors can be invaluable, one can be a set of hifi speakers.

aksen · Post by **aksen** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:21 am

Hainbach wrote:You will need an open back headphone for mixing.

what's the science/logic behind that?

tIB · Post by **tIB** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:32 am

^ better/more open sound and less fatiguing I think.

Hainbach · Post by **Hainbach** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:00 am

tIB wrote:^ better/more open sound and less fatiguing I think.

True. Also, closed backs are great for tracking, as you have less bleed, but will hurt your ears after a time when mixing. Also, the frequency response of closed backs is generally more tailored to the application of tracking - bass enhanced, cuts to the 1kHz to 5kHz range to compensate harshness and a boost in the upper registers for sheen.

There a middling solutions such as the DT880, which is half-closed, but I have never liked these cans. I use a DT770 for tracking and an AKG701 (same as the pro K702 only in consumer white and a fixed chord, but much cheaper) for mixing.

Generally, its harder to get translatable results with just headphones and it takes much longer, unless your source material has been tracked very well.

aksen · Post by **aksen** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:04 am

hmm ok. i've been using hd25s for years now, and while i certainly don't enjoy long sessions with them for comfort reasons, i didn't think about the acoustic properties of them - i found the sound reproduction on them to be pretty good, and i didn't realise open/closed back designs would make a lot of difference (i do like the isolating properties of closed phones though).

i knew mixing on headphones was not ideal, but certainly when i was writing exclusively on the PC it was the only option i had. i tend to only use them nowadays with hardware when i can't have the monitors on, though i think i still "trust" the sennheisers more than my monitor speakers just because i'm so used to them.

tIB · Post by **tIB** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:59 am

^ I dont think there is any substitute for knowing your headphones when trying to mix with them.

Next year Im hoping to get my studio kitted out with so planning on a return to monitors... be interesting to see if I go back to the MS1's every time. I suspect I will.

amnesia · Post by **amnesia** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:11 am

I have mixed with headphones since 2001 and I believe if you own some great headphones like my Sennhiser HD650's you will be able to mix fine.

Babaluma · Post by **Babaluma** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:12 am

agree! knowing your system really really well (whether it be headphones or monitors) is probably way more important than whether you use one or the other, or the brand/price etc. am sure someone using the same cans for ten years could probably pull off a better mix than someone who just got a brand new pair of flash monitors.

tuj · Post by **tuj** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:17 am

Babaluma wrote:agree! knowing your system really really well (whether it be headphones or monitors) is probably way more important than whether you use one or the other, or the brand/price etc. am sure someone using the same cans for ten years could probably pull off a better mix than someone who just got a brand new pair of flash monitors.

+1. I would rather use a set of hifi speakers that I know really well than the latest and greatest set of monitors.

tIB · Post by **tIB** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:18 am

Since we are on the subject I have to say the alessandro MS1's are far and away the best price to performance of anything Ive ever used- 99 US dollars and they sound brilliant. Very detailed and transparent... highly recommended.

http://www.alessandro-products.com/main ... headphones

(I tried the MS2 as well and whilst they were better I didnt think they were that much better for the extra 200 dollars, I also have a pair of grado SR80 which the MS1 are better than.)

MUFF WIGGLER

MUFF WIGGLER

Mixing with headphones...

Mixing with headphones...

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