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Author Eventide going Native with their plug ins
ignatius
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Eventide going Native with their plug ins Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

it's in this article

http://www.sonicscoop.com/2011/10/20/eventide-turns-40-and-turns-a-cor ner-as-well/

also some chatter at pre-AES interview things where they discuss the pro tools AAX format

"Up until now, obtaining the progressive and powerful suite of Eventide plug-in has carried a premium price tag. Tomorrow, Agnello and company are set to arrive at the 131st AES convention and announce that for the first time, every user can afford access to these uniquely flexible tools.

As of 2011, Eventide is going Native."

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Interesting.
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ignatius
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i've wanted the anthology bundle as vst/au forever. even just the H3000 factory and the band delays would be killer.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

At this point my interest will depend on the pricing... The Valhalla plugins are as good or better in my opinion as any eventide I've heard/used
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ignatius wrote:
i've wanted the anthology bundle as vst/au forever. even just the H3000 factory and the band delays would be killer.


I'm with you on that. I've had an Orville for about 6 years and in my opinion there is nothing that comes close the Eventide effects. I would love to have them easily inserted into a track.

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ignatius
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

pulse_divider wrote:
At this point my interest will depend on the pricing... The Valhalla plugins are as good or better in my opinion as any eventide I've heard/used


i wasn't aware that the Valhalla stuff does the same types of processing? i know his reverb is outstanding but eventide is much more than just reverb.

as far as price goes.. the Anthology Bundle for TDM is 15 plug ins and sells for around $900.

TDM is always way more expensive than native... so, depending on what happens as far as the release schedule goes.. and if there will even be a direct translation from TDM to native versions.. well, the prices could be very very reasonable.. or they could release a few plugs over the coming months then a few more.. etc and then make them available in a bundle at a reduced price which would kind of suck for anyone who buys them one at a time...

i'm hopeful the H3000 factory and band delays will make their way bit for bit into native land.

if you aren't aware of those plugs.. hop on over to the eventide site and watch the video of the h3000 factory. gives you some idea of what it's 18 modules can do.

click on the 'media' tab and watch the demo video

http://eventide.com/AudioDivision/Products/PlugIns/H3000%20Factory.asp x


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Such good news. I cannot wait.
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Veqtor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

RTAS is the console of the plugins. There's no performance gain in the hardware, it is just a really bulky dongle and now that they've given in to peer pressure and made pt native, realized their mistake and drafted the new aax specification devs are getting cold feet.

This is good, I hate pt and more specifically I despise how they're most likely bribing plugin manufacturers to develop plugins only for the RTAS format. This is just a way of selling their expensive hardware.

It's like xbox, a "magical" machine which is in fact just a dongle which forces users to pay monthly subscriptions to play multiplayer games.

I like this news a lot, I hope they realize that the uniqueness of the H3000 factory probably has a quite wide appeal in the native market. If I were them I would make it priority number one and band delays prio 2.

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ignatius
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Veqtor wrote:
RTAS is the console of the plugins. There's no performance gain in the hardware, it is just a really bulky dongle and now that they've given in to peer pressure and made pt native, realized their mistake and drafted the new aax specification devs are getting cold feet.

This is good, I hate pt and more specifically I despise how they're most likely bribing plugin manufacturers to develop plugins only for the RTAS format. This is just a way of selling their expensive hardware.

It's like xbox, a "magical" machine which is in fact just a dongle which forces users to pay monthly subscriptions to play multiplayer games.

I like this news a lot, I hope they realize that the uniqueness of the H3000 factory probably has a quite wide appeal in the native market. If I were them I would make it priority number one and band delays prio 2.



not sure if you've kept up on the recent pro tools update info.. but RTAS is going away and will not be supported in Pro tools 11 whenever that comes out. pro tools 10 is the grace period for developers to get from RTAS/TDM to AAX which is their format for the future and is Native and for DSP accelerators. so, while for now developers will have to recode everything for AAX.. they will be able to drop RTAS at some point. AAX is 64 bit ready package and RTAS is not.


i agree that making the H3000factory/band delays the #1 priority to get into native format is a good idea but i think they are starting with the 2016 reverb (yawn).. not that it isn't cool but c'mon.. seems obvious what people want from eventide.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thought there was already a native version of the 2016 reverb, no?

i think this could be cool, again, depending on pricing! i've always wanted to get the "rainbow dome musick" style effects (that's a really old eventide i believe).
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'll probably be down with this, love my Eventides.

Again, comes down to pricing, but I'd say it would be no more then $800?

I mean they have to compete with the price of the hardware ($1k?), Eclipse ($1.2k?) and most importantly SoundToys ($450), nevermind all the other options.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ignatius wrote:
pulse_divider wrote:
At this point my interest will depend on the pricing... The Valhalla plugins are as good or better in my opinion as any eventide I've heard/used


i wasn't aware that the Valhalla stuff does the same types of processing? i know his reverb is outstanding but eventide is much more than just reverb.



The Valhalla stuff is certainly not a 1:1 replacement as the Eventide has a whole lot more algorithms under the hood, I'm just saying that for most of what I'd use an H3000 for (pitched echoes, reverbs) the Valhalla plugs do better. I would've been interested 2 years ago for sure but since Valhalla's come on the scene I feel like I have those bases pretty well covered now.

I've never used the Eventide plugs but I've owned a 3000 and a 4500 and I do like their stuff, it just seems a bit late in the game for them now. I'm sure I'd be interested if it sounds great and the price is right but I think it would have to be under $200 for me to even consider it and I'm guessing that's pretty doubtful.
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ignatius
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OK - Pricing.. here's some thoughts..

current prices - sound toys included as a reference and to show difference between native and TDM versions

soundtoys native = $495 for 8 plug ins (though 'speed' is the pitch/time algorithm for lgoic)
soundtoys TDM = $1195 for 9 plug ins including speed

eventide anthology TDM bundle II = $995 for 15 plug ins

so, with that in mind it seems quite possible that the native eventide offerings would have to be affordable/comparable even if they split it into 2 bundles which may make sense.

either way.. i'm stoked.. i'd be happy to just have the H3000 factory for all the in depth weirdness it can create.

but with everything going AAX for pro tools i wonder if there will be a price restructuring from many developers to cover the cost of porting everything to a new format?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i never understood the secret behind the eventide monopoly. its all based on pitch shifting, time stretching, filtering and various delay lines. the algorhythms for that are public domain and anybody could do it with lots of dsp power. what we really need is an open hardware platform where the best codes can be developed in public domain and uploaded. then eventide will be out of business in next to no time.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ZDSP
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ignatius
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

lilakmonoke wrote:
i never understood the secret behind the eventide monopoly. its all based on pitch shifting, time stretching, filtering and various delay lines. the algorhythms for that are public domain and anybody could do it with lots of dsp power. what we really need is an open hardware platform where the best codes can be developed in public domain and uploaded. then eventide will be out of business in next to no time.


well, why would you want them to be out of business?

also, i don't think the algorithms are all the same. the ideas are out there and certainly you can find a lot on the net and by taking classes but writing a great algorithm is what makes a DSP effect. go listen to 10 different algorithm based reverb plug ins as an example.

saying that it's all public domain is a bit naive i think. i mean, if it was all out there then every high end effects company.. TC, lexicon etc wouldn't have any difference between them.

the code is the algorithm. though graphic programming languages alter that paradigm somewhat.

also, i think having people dedicated to a task as part of a company that gives them a job is a better way to go. some things work great as open source and DIY but i'm more than willing to give someone a few bucks for quality stuff that works and isn't buggy and sounds great. i have no problem with commercial products. plus, often times, though not always, things that are designed and built by committee tend to suck and serve the lowest common denominator and don't do anything well because there is no vision.

so, er yeah.. and anyways.. eventide makes airplane avionics so i doubt they'd be out of business anyways.

also, as an example.. just look at the lack of DSP algorithms for the TTA zDSP. this is open source, web supported and it's largely a fucken vacuum. but obviously we're dealing with very different situations.

i think the reaktor user library is a good example of things going right. there's great stuff there but there isn't anything that sounds as good as eventide stuff imo.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

lilakmonoke wrote:
the algorhythms for that are public domain and anybody could do it with lots of dsp power.


Feel free!

They sell amazing quality hardware. Since 30 years they have been selling because nothing does what their boxes do.
If my 3000 dies I may grab some software, but for me, the hardware has the sound.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Totally naive to just assume they use public domain algos. Have you ever tried using any other harmonizer than an Eventide? Try it sometime, they just don't compare wink I think you could maybe say that most digital EQs use much the same DSP as each other.. but with things like pitch shifting, granular stuff and time stretching, there are far more variables imho.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A hardware Harmonizer is on my short list, but the price of the plugins may tempt me to go the software route.

Hmmm... I wonder if a Harmonizer price drop might be coming to keep the hardware attractive or if the markets are different enought that you wouldn't expect plugin sales to eat in to hardware sales?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ignatius wrote:

... eventide makes airplane avionics...


And they've recently brought an end to that in order to focus on kick-ass audio products full-time.

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ignatius
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

polyslax wrote:


Hmmm... I wonder if a Harmonizer price drop might be coming to keep the hardware attractive or if the markets are different enought that you wouldn't expect plugin sales to eat in to hardware sales?


doubtful. the software is some fruit from the tree... the hardware is the tree. besides.. hardware has its appeal and lot's of pros and just a few cons.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's surreal to see someone wish that I lose my job (have Eventide go out of business), even if I don't work in the audio division here.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmmm...

The new Pro-Tools plug-in format, AAX, is
replacing both TDM and RTAS. The AAX
format can be both Native and DSP accelerated.

So, yes... they may be going "native", but
it doesn't mean we'll see AU or VST versions.
I guess it depends on their AVID contract and
if Eventide signed an exclusive agreement.

It would appear to make sense financially to
support AU and VST, unless they get a premium
or signing bonus with AVID.

At this point, with computers becoming faster
and faster, I think the only way AVID can win
is to lure the best 3rd party developers into an
exclusive deal, like how XBox + Sony Playstation
have their exclusive flagship franchises.
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ignatius
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

apfEID wrote:
It's surreal to see someone wish that I lose my job (have Eventide go out of business), even if I don't work in the audio division here.


that raised an eyebrow for me too.. but i think (hope) that it just 'came out wrong' and wasn't meant that way or something.. but not having said it i can't speak for him.

i'll just say that i would love you to have your job as long as you want it.. whatever you do! It's motherfucking bacon yo

and if you feel like hitting up the water cooler in the audio division and eavesdropping on some plug in info we'd all be much appreciative Mr. Green

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Entrainer wrote:


So, yes... they may be going "native", but
it doesn't mean we'll see AU or VST versions.
I guess it depends on their AVID contract and
if Eventide signed an exclusive agreement.


they did say they were going Au/VST. it's in the eventide forum.. posted by someone who works for eventide.. it's also mentioned in a couple other places by people who work with eventide.

scroll down to 2nd to last post on this page

http://forum.eventide.com/cs/forums/t/5274.aspx?PageIndex=2

"We have announced that we are also doing them for AU and VST2."

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