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Thinking to go into video synthesis / setup questions
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Video Synthesis  
Author Thinking to go into video synthesis / setup questions
Hainbach
I discovered the HSS3i here and love the images it can produce. How would I go about using the HSS3i from on stage with my Eurorack to interface with a beamer that is in all likelyhood 15 metres away? I'd love to have a solution that is easily applicable in clubs ranging from 50 to 500 (dreams meh ) people.

Thanks in advance for your help!
lizlarsen
Gaffer's tape and a long cable! smile There are some wireless solutions, but I wouldn't trust them. Pushing video over a very long cable length may need help from some sort of signal booster/receiver, too. The longer the length of the cable, the more your signal will degrade. I've used a 100' S-Video Cable for gigs like this without much trouble, though.

There are also short-throw projectors available, if you want to have the projector on stage with you.
LEVLHED
Yeah, running a cable is really the only reliable way to do it.And running a long ass cable through the nasty dirty scummy ceiling of a typical club sucks. Welcome to the world of live video art.
daverj
Most well designed video equipment can drive a 30 meter cable no problem. 60 meters is probably pushing it. It'll work, but the image starts degrading.

Beyond that you either need to add a video distribution amp every 30 meters or so, or to switch to a cable driving/receiving system such as fiber optic or CAT-5. Those each require a special box at each end to drive and receive the signals. Both can go very long distances. (250-500 meters typically with CAT-5, and 5km+ typically with fiber optic)
lizlarsen
Those are very good specs to know, thanks Dave!
mystico
CAT-5 would be my recommendation.
daverj
CAT-5 cable heavily distorts the signal. The boxes at either end do their best to compensate, and the results are pretty good. But if the distance is short enough, like under maybe 50 meters, then good coax cable is better.

CAT-5, and their drivers, are often used for security cameras.
mystico
When you say heavily distorted daverj what sort of image degradation are you referring to? I've notice some magenta cast before running video on CAT-5 over 50 meters but otherwise my experience with it has been fairly good. I'm sure your right with your call on using coax if you can, just trying to further my understanding thumbs up
daverj
It depends on what you use, how long the run is, and how fussy you are about the image quality.

Using CAT-5 by itself is not good. It's unshielded and attenuates the high frequencies a lot. At 100 meters you've lost more than 1/2 of the high frequency detail. At 200 meters it's more like 3/4 lost. That loses detail and adds noise to the colors. The cable impedance is not the same as video, so without special drivers you get unequal group delays, which means that colors and details in the image no longer match up, and there will be lots of distortion at various frequencies.

Using passive "balun" couplers at each end is the minimum that should be used with CAT-5. They match the impedance and boost the signal at one end and reduce it at the other. There is still high frequency attenuation and they are usually optimized for a specific length of cable, but losses are less than raw cable. At other distances you either lose detail or get ringing on the edges of large areas.

Powered drivers and receivers are the best. They usually boost the high frequencies before driving the cable and then again when they receive it at the other end. They either have adjustments for the cable length, or newer ones automatically calculate it. With medium distances of a couple hundred meters they can compensate for the frequency losses pretty well, though add a bit of distortion to the edges of large flat constant value areas, or cause them to slope a bit (get lighter or darker at one side). For longer runs, they still compensate for the frequency loss, but the low frequency distortion gets worse and the amount of boost needed to restore the high frequencies ends up adding noise to the image. But at those distances coax would just give a blur.
mystico
Thanks for the info! Much appreciated.
Hainbach
Wow, that was quick! Thanks a lot for all the info, this is starting to feel solid. I guess I will be in close contact with yucky ceilings a lot.

Can you reccomend a reliable beamer on a budget (200-400EUR) for rehearsals and small venues? I am looking to use it with the HS33i so it does not need any extra 3D features. Short throws look great but I have not seen any in my budget range.

Thanks again, you guys rock!
bitSmasher
There's talk on VJForums that VGA cables can be run at long (75-100) metres and they're the best of the widely available mediums in terms of shielding and low signal loss.
daverj
I've seen VGA cables up to 60 meters. They use special low capacitance coax inside them to go that far. You can buy the same or better low capacitance coax for composite video too, and go long distances. You just have to buy them in special places (which you do for the long VGA cables too).
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