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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

FlopSeq Sequencer Board [Updates]
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author FlopSeq Sequencer Board [Updates]

J3RK

Hello,

These are finally ready for production. A brief description for those that haven't been following in the other thread:

This board is a simple externally clocked, 8 Step flipflop/counter based sequencer that can count upward, downward, and pingpong. The CV output range is 0-10V. The clock input has a comparator to make clocking a bit more flexible, and there is a Gate output that outputs a 10V gate pulse. There are connections for 8 pots, 8 LEDs, Mode Switch and the CV/CLK/Gate IO jacks. The board is approximately 3"x3.5". It can be clocked into low audio range.

Boards are $20 each, which includes shipping in the US. Outside the US, please add $5 Per Order (not per board.) Please reference "FlopSeq" in the Paypal subject (as there are other boards open for orders right now.)

Paypal address is:

Thanks for the interest in this project!

Note: You can combine your orders for all three of the currently available boards if you like. I'm also going to leave the 258J orders open, and close them all at once.


Rod Serling Fan Club

How do you prefer a person pays for different PCBs? 1 paypal pament or multiple?


Isaiah

Very tempting...

Is there a schematic you could share please?
I'd like to make sure I understand all of the sequencer's functions before I decide.

You mention connections for a CV pot and LED per step, but I can't tell if there is a Gate/Trigger switch per step too... I guess so if there is a Gate output, correct?

Is the Gate output the same pulse width as the Clock signal?

Cheers!


J3RK

Isaiah wrote:
Very tempting...

Is there a schematic you could share please?
I'd like to make sure I understand all of the sequencer's functions before I decide.

You mention connections for a CV pot and LED per step, but I can't tell if there is a Gate/Trigger switch per step too... I guess so if there is a Gate output, correct?

Is the Gate output the same pulse width as the Clock signal?

Cheers!


There is not a gate switch per step. Just a single gate output, with one pulse per step. I can plot the pulse-width tonight.


J3RK

Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
How do you prefer a person pays for different PCBs? 1 paypal pament or multiple?


As long as all of the boards for the order are referenced, one order should be fine. I was trying to keep these separate early on, but it makes more sense to combine them at this point if desired.

Thanks!


synthnut

Hi,

Could one do something cunning with the LED outputs to make individual gate outputs? Is there any break in these between steps?

TTFN,

Ben

www.resynthesis.co.uk
www.bigbluewave.co.uk


FrankV

I'm feeling sort of dense here, but it's not actually clear to me whether the number of steps is adjustable. The list of controls and I/O doesn't seem to refer to a reset or control for number of steps. 8 steps all the time? Did I miss something obvious (wouldn't be the first time!)?

Frank


J3RK

No, no step count select. This was originally intended as a simple sequencer just for my Easel panel. Then some people expressed an interest in it. I'm working on a complex sequencer that will have step count, gate off/tie, division, 8 or 16 step versions, etc. But this will not be available for quite some time.

I'm uploading videos now, (not great quality, but...)


J3RK




J3RK




J3RK

Isaiah wrote:
Very tempting...

Is there a schematic you could share please?
I'd like to make sure I understand all of the sequencer's functions before I decide.

You mention connections for a CV pot and LED per step, but I can't tell if there is a Gate/Trigger switch per step too... I guess so if there is a Gate output, correct?

Is the Gate output the same pulse width as the Clock signal?

Cheers!


Edit: I need to run a quick test with an actual PWM clock actually. If I shift the waveform, the pulse-width changes on the output. However, changing the width in simulation results in no change. I believe (real world) that it does, but I want to verify it before giving you a final answer on this. I'll try running a couple more tests tomorrow for this. It functions exactly as I'd expect, but I wasn't really thinking about this when we designed it.


J3RK

synthnut wrote:
Hi,

Could one do something cunning with the LED outputs to make individual gate outputs? Is there any break in these between steps?

TTFN,

Ben

www.resynthesis.co.uk
www.bigbluewave.co.uk


You could probably do something along these lines. It wouldn't be pulling from the buffered clock output section though, and you may have to do something to shorten the pulse. Each LED is attached to an output of a CD4028 Bin to Dec converter. Each one is a discrete pulse (high state) for the duration of the step. (around +13V) The outputs of the 4028 are buffered, so you could probably tap these safely.

If you were using an AD envelope (or anything with little or no sustain,) the gate length shouldn't really matter, if I'm not mistaken.

This area of the board is pretty tight trace-wise, but you could tap off of the resistor leads (that are connected to each LED) if you wanted to try modding this in. Or, you could pull from the LED header, and attach the LEDs to your gate switches (or similar.) I can do a quick test with some alligator leads, and just see how well this works as a gate.


J3RK

BOM will be up soon.


synthnut

Hi,

The gate length needs to be less than 100% duty or you won't get a re-trigger when two consecutive notes have their gates selected. Though it's actually nice to be able to have the notes legato sometimes too! I'd need to AND it with the clock perhaps.
I think I leaning towards some of the complex version...! hyper

TTFN

Ben
www.resynthesis.co.uk
www.bigbluewave.co.uk


Isaiah

Yes, I think I may be leaning towards the complex version too, if only for the ability to Reset and turn the Gate On/Off per step.

What I meant about the pulse-width of the Gate output compared to the Clock input is:
Does it produce a pulse of fixed length per step?
Or, is it simply a Clock "through-put"?

They way I would retain the pulse-width of the input is by ANDing the Clock signal and Gate output like Synthnut said.
But when there is no means of selecting Gate On/Off per step, that seems kind of silly, just buffer the Clock input to use as the Gate output.
Unless, the Gate is fixed length.
Not sure if I'm making much sense.


J3RK

synthnut wrote:
Hi,

The gate length needs to be less than 100% duty or you won't get a re-trigger when two consecutive notes have their gates selected. Though it's actually nice to be able to have the notes legato sometimes too! I'd need to AND it with the clock perhaps.
I think I leaning towards some of the complex version...! hyper

TTFN

Ben
www.resynthesis.co.uk
www.bigbluewave.co.uk


We're running this through a 4093, to do this actually. The way one of the previous test versions was working it was taking 2 clock cycles for every step of the sequencer. I believe we're sitting at a fixed, smaller than 50% duty cycle on the output. I'll need to toss it back on the scope or run another sim to confirm the exact pulse width.

I figure out why it was shifting. I was trying to simulate pulse-width changes by shifting the waveform. When it was nearly all-sine, more of the wave was dropping below the comparator threshold, which altered the pulse-width of the output clock. (actually an interesting effect to look at) So rather than changing the PW, I think it was just resetting it momentarily. I'll have to confirm all of this though.

Not sure which thread I posted the response in, but there may be a fairly easy way to get separate switched gate outs. There is not however, a way to change the number of steps. (that I'm currently aware of anyway)

The complex sequencer is going to be pretty fun I think. It's quite a way off though, as this one is going to be more heavily co-developed between a friend and myself, and time that we're both available to work on it is VERY short. I'll post updates though as things progress.


a.b.o.z.

So those board are the base for more complex sequencer? 16 steps? gate switches?


J3RK

a.b.o.z. wrote:
So those board are the base for more complex sequencer? 16 steps? gate switches?


I was originally going to try to make these compatible to become "step IO" boards for the complex sequencer. We've expanded the functionality of the control board so much though, that I'm going to have to rework the IO boards. So this will be a completely separate project. These simple ones fill a slightly different need though. They're more to be used more as a granular tool for making sounds/rhythms, etc. than to be used for creating musical phrases, if that makes any sense. No reason you couldn't do either with either, that's just kind of what I had in mind for mine. I'd say that it could be useful to use both, which is kind of my plan. I'm thinking of doing a skiffish sort of thing with the complex one, and then using the simple ones in my panel more for textures/arps/etc. What I'd like to do when I get a few minutes, is get some video of these doing something aside from tonal use. Maybe sequence some filter/LPG settings, waveshape on the 258s, or FM index. (need to get my VCAs onto the panel first though for that last one)


glitched01

When do you expect to have the boards on-hand?


J3RK

I'm keeping all three boards open for orders for two weeks (starting from today more or less,) then will place the orders for the production runs. These usually take between one and two weeks. Then I will be shipping them out in batches until everyone has them. Typically on my previous runs, I've been able to get all out within a couple of weeks. It's just me though, and I have a day job, (and kids) so things occasionally get pushed out slightly where shipping is concerned. I try to keep everyone up to date though, and respond as quickly as possible. I think they would be in my hands by mid December then shipped out as quickly as possible. If things taper off, and orders stop coming in sooner, I may let everyone know, and order the boards sooner. I always find that orders start trickling in again as soon as I do this though, and my "extras" don't hold out for too long. I don't expect quite the same volume as with the original 258 runs though, so this could roll off slightly quicker. I'll be posting in these threads with any news/updates.


J3RK

Here's another video. This is the FlopSeq in typical forward mode. It's controlling one VCO, and a digital noise board that I just made (cut down, adapted version of Ken Stone's Digital Noise circuit (with permission.)) Which may be available as well at some point. (this would be a very cheap board compared to the other ones)

Anyway:




boothnavy

Is there a picture of the board somewhere? Are/can the pots & LEDs be PCB mounted or did you use flying wires?


iopop

Im interested in seeing the board as well.


boothnavy

BOM for this one as well? I hate multiple parts orders...


J3RK

BOM will be available soon. Just haven't had a chance to export it yet. (should only take a few minutes)

As far as board mounted pots go, you'd have to make a second board. The connections are SIL-3 headers, so you could use MTA-100 connectors, or pin-strips that connect a second board (could be perf even.) As far as putting them on this board, I don't think it would fit. The board is 3x3.5" The headers are arranged vertically, with the pins going horizontally. Like this:

...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...

I can check, but I doubt there would be room.


J3RK

iopop wrote:
Im interested in seeing the board as well.


I can grab a pic tonight.


J3RK

Le Pic:



I've since fixed the right-angled trace toward the middle. d'oh!


iopop

Thanks!

Edit:

Just struck me how much easier the wiring becomes when skipping gate on/off switches.

CW and CCW on all of the pots are wired to + and GND, right? So, in reality you will only need the viper from each pot, if wiring +/gnd on the panel.

Also two of these might make a up Buchla 123ish module, http://www.flickr.com/photos/9828434@N03/1277528606/in/photostream/


mome rath

in for 1 board


J3RK

I'm going to try pulling gates from the LED headers tonight. I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work. The LEDs could then connect at the switch. I'll post the results after I give it a try.


synthnut

Hi,
Any joy with using the LED outputs for the step gates?
hyper
Keep wiggling!

Ben

www.bigbluewave.co.uk


boothnavy

j3rk, where is the mode switch on yours? I dont see one...

hows the BOM?


fivesteppath

Might be in for 1-2 boards. Like stated by others would like to know about BOM & step gate. thumbs up


negativspace

Ok, I'm in for 2. Gotta resist the urge to go overboard...

I owe you for these and the 291s, will pay this weekend. thumbs up


boothnavy

News on step gates? BOM?


camelneck

J3RK,
Suppose you find that you can extract "step gate outputs" directly from the LEDs. I must ask, "How much trouble would it be to add a reset input?" This way you could wire "step gate outputs 2 thru 8" to each position of a 7-position rotary switch. With the common input of the rotary switch wired to the "reset input" of the sequencer, one could use this rotary switch to select the length of the sequence, which could be varied from 2 steps to 8 steps in length.

Of course, I understand that it may be a little too late to add a "reset input" to the PCB right now. It may even require you to make some major changes to the design. (Maybe this is why you prefer to address this issue in a more ocmplex version of the flop sequencer.)

Perhaps, I should have asked this question instead: Is the addition of a "reset input" a practical and feasible DIY modification? Or does it require you to make some major changes to the sequencer's circuitry as it now exists?

Also, how feasible and practical would it be to add a 2nd row of CV pots (an additional 8 pots) that would support a 2nd, independent CV output buss? Could you also extract the supply voltage for each of these pots from the individual LED outputs, too? (I believe this is how the Baby-10 sequencer got the supply voltage for both rows of pots, which included pots 1 - 10 and pots 11 - 20.)

I know this suppose to be a simple sequencer and I respect this. However, it would be nice to be able to expand on it with some optional DIY mods. (I really feel dumb and helpless without a schematic, but I do understand!)


J3RK

I had family in town over the weekend, so I didn't get a chance to try the individual gates as planned. I should be able to do this soon though. I'm not sure on the reset input. If I can find a good way to reset the count, I could do this. I'll need to look into this a bit.

I'm leaving orders open until Friday, so I should have time to see if this will work or not before I order the boards. No guarantees on this functionality though, as it's a little beyond the scope of what I was planning for this board. I'll give it a shot though. I basically just need to check the data sheets for the counters that I'm using, and see if there is an easy way to reset them.


Jarno

Payment sent for three FlopSeqs en two 258J's w00t


J3RK

camelneck wrote:
J3RK,
Suppose you find that you can extract "step gate outputs" directly from the LEDs. I must ask, "How much trouble would it be to add a reset input?" This way you could wire "step gate outputs 2 thru 8" to each position of a 7-position rotary switch. With the common input of the rotary switch wired to the "reset input" of the sequencer, one could use this rotary switch to select the length of the sequence, which could be varied from 2 steps to 8 steps in length.

Of course, I understand that it may be a little too late to add a "reset input" to the PCB right now. It may even require you to make some major changes to the design. (Maybe this is why you prefer to address this issue in a more ocmplex version of the flop sequencer.)

Perhaps, I should have asked this question instead: Is the addition of a "reset input" a practical and feasible DIY modification? Or does it require you to make some major changes to the sequencer's circuitry as it now exists?

Also, how feasible and practical would it be to add a 2nd row of CV pots (an additional 8 pots) that would support a 2nd, independent CV output buss? Could you also extract the supply voltage for each of these pots from the individual LED outputs, too? (I believe this is how the Baby-10 sequencer got the supply voltage for both rows of pots, which included pots 1 - 10 and pots 11 - 20.)

I know this suppose to be a simple sequencer and I respect this. However, it would be nice to be able to expand on it with some optional DIY mods. (I really feel dumb and helpless without a schematic, but I do understand!)


I'm actively working on this now, but so far it's not looking that good for a reset. I'm using a binary counter and a bin-dec converter to do the counting. Unless I can do a reset by sending a pulse to the preset input (which is doubtful,) I'm not sure how it would work in the current setup. I've asked a friend (who helped me design this,) so I should have a more definitive answer soon.

I'll be doing some experimentation with this, and confirming the individual gate outs from the bin to dec outputs tonight. The reason I'm thinking the preset input, is that we're already using it to set the direction of the counting. However, I'm not sure it's as simple as just routing a simple pulse back.

Either way, I'll post back here when I've determined this one way or the other. It really wasn't designed to do all of this, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Mr. Green

Edit:

So I'm looking at the CD4029 data sheet, and I'm thinking the JAM inputs could be used to reset it, but not easily, and it would likely take some extra logic to do it. This sort of thing isn't my forte though, so hopefully my friend will have some encouraging input.

Edit Edit:

Still trying to decipher the data sheet a bit. I'm thinking that the right combination at the PE and JAM inputs could reset. What I'm not sure of, is how this would impact the presets we use for up/down/pingpong. We're already seeding the counter to do these, so if I send another configuration to it to reset it, then I'm not sure if it would continue counting in the same mode.


J3RK

Good news on the individual gates. The are VERY easily tapped from the 4028 Bin to Dec outputs. (either at the LED pad, or resistor leads next to them.) I tested it by triggering the input of a dual 281 in AD mode. Works perfectly. I'd still like to take a quick look on the scope, just to see what each individual gate pulse looks like, but yes, this does work.

It looks very doubtful that the reset is going to work without fairly heavy modification. If I can squeeze this in before the end of the week, or find an easier way, I will, otherwise, it will have to wait for the large version sometime in the future.


fivesteppath

J3RK wrote:
Good news on the individual gates. The are VERY easily tapped from the 4028 Bin to Dec outputs. (either at the LED pad, or resistor leads next to them.) I tested it by triggering the input of a dual 281 in AD mode. Works perfectly. I'd still like to take a quick look on the scope, just to see what each individual gate pulse looks like, but yes, this does work.

It looks very doubtful that the reset is going to work without fairly heavy modification. If I can squeeze this in before the end of the week, or find an easier way, I will, otherwise, it will have to wait for the large version sometime in the future.


Awesome! Expect $ x 2 tomorrow from me. Don't mean to nag but BOM would still be great grin


J3RK

Sorry, I should be able to pop the BOM up tonight. It's created, just need to copy/paste it.

Things have been incredibly busy at work for the past couple of weeks, so I've been a little slower than I'd like.


J3RK

Ack! I must sincerely apologize, for I'm living up to my forum name. I need to get that BOM up. I'm sending myself a calendar reminder to do this right now. d'oh! Sorry about that. It'll be up tonight. Orders will stay open through the weekend, and the production run will be ordered Mondayish. Thanks again, and I'll set up us the BOM shortly. hihi


J3RK

Sorry for the long delay. Here is the BOM. It's fairly simple. Caps are .1" lead spacing for non-electrolytics. The electrolytics are .125"

Code:
Bill Of Materials
=================

QTY  PART-REFS           VALUE                         
---  ---------           -----                         
Resistors
---------
8    R1-R8               470                                               
2    R9,R19              100                                               
8    R10,R11,R13-R18     10k                                               
2    R12,R20             1k                                               
1    R23                 82k                                               

Capacitors
----------
2    C1,C3               10nF                                           
1    C2                  100nF                                             
2    C4,C5               10uF+ Electrolytic (power filtering)                                             

Integrated Circuits
-------------------
1    U1                  4029                                             
1    U2                  4028                                             
1    U3                  4051                                             
2    U4,U5               4013                                             
1    U7                  LT1114/TL074                                         
1    U8                  4093                                             

Transistors
-----------
1    Q1                  2N3904                                           

Diodes
------
8    D1-D8               LED-GREEN                                         
3    D11-D13             DIODE (1N4148 or similar)                                           

Miscellaneous
-------------
8    RV1-RV8             100k                                             
1    SW1                 SW-ROT-3                                       



fivesteppath

thumbs up pm'd.


303monkey

I wanted one of these too


fivesteppath

Before I order a few would this badboy be good for the job?

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=SR2511F-0303-19R0B-E 9-S-Wvirtualkey14860000virtualkey105-SR2511F-33S


Jarno

Dustin, do you have a layout picture of these boards, and a schematic?

I usually mark which components I did and didn't place, and also for remembering to order certain components.
The schematic is useful to determine possible component substitutions.


J3RK

Jarno wrote:
Dustin, do you have a layout picture of these boards, and a schematic?

I usually mark which components I did and didn't place, and also for remembering to order certain components.
The schematic is useful to determine possible component substitutions.


I should be able to put a board image together tonight for this.


Jarno

Thanks! Boards look great btw. Like the layout of the 258 boards as well lots of room for different types of components.


FrankV

J3RK wrote:
Code:
                                         
1    SW1                 SW-ROT-3                                       


Hi--

Just a quickie. I'm guessing the switch is a three position for mode setting... Looking at the (four) pads on the board, it's not entirely clear to me which one would be the common. Did I miss a schematic in some other thread? hmmm.....

Best,

Frank


J3RK

I'm putting together a bit more information for these now. In the design/schematic, I'm using a three position rotary switch. Since I've just been using a jumper-wire to select on the bench, I'll have to think about wiring a non-rotary switch. Should be pretty easy. It's in ping-pong mode with nothing wired there by default.


J3RK

Here's the schematic for the FlopSeq Sequencer. I'm linking it, rather than posting the image, as it's pretty large.

http://home.comcast.net/~r3cogniz3r/flopseqschem.jpg

If anyone has any suggestions on using a more standard switch, by all means post! thumbs up I haven't had much in the way of time to revisit this in a while. (though I'm still planning the larger sequencer for down the road a wee.


FrankV

Cool! Thanks for posting.

F


Citisyn

OK, I'm having no luck getting this thing to work. Could somebody help me troubleshoot?

Here is what's happening:

With mode switch in pingpong (or disconnected) the counter counts up to 10 and resets to step 1. With switch in one of the other positions it will skip either step 1 or step 8.

Probing around I've discovered that pin 1 of U5:A is staying high regardless of the states of pins 4 or 6. I'm pretty sure that is the problem, but I can't figure out why it's doing that. I've tested the chip on a breadboard and it seems to work fine.

Any ideas?


J3RK

Citisyn wrote:
OK, I'm having no luck getting this thing to work. Could somebody help me troubleshoot?

Here is what's happening:

With mode switch in pingpong (or disconnected) the counter counts up to 10 and resets to step 1. With switch in one of the other positions it will skip either step 1 or step 8.

Probing around I've discovered that pin 1 of U5:A is staying high regardless of the states of pins 4 or 6. I'm pretty sure that is the problem, but I can't figure out why it's doing that. I've tested the chip on a breadboard and it seems to work fine.

Any ideas?


I've only run across something like this once, and was unable to reproduce it, but what it appeared to be is that something caused the seed for the binary counter to be off, so it skipped a step or two. Powering it off and then back on fixed this though. Never got it to happen again though. I've built and tested four of them now without any issues. I'll take a look at one of mine when I get home tonight, and see if I can find some things for you to check.


Citisyn

J3RK wrote:


I've only run across something like this once, and was unable to reproduce it, but what it appeared to be is that something caused the seed for the binary counter to be off, so it skipped a step or two. Powering it off and then back on fixed this though. Never got it to happen again though. I've built and tested four of them now without any issues. I'll take a look at one of mine when I get home tonight, and see if I can find some things for you to check.


I appreciate that, I'll keep poking around myself and see if I can figure it out.

EDIT: (Accidentally) Removed R8 and PingPong mode works. In the other modes, the counter counts in the right direction but still counts to 10. I'll study the schematics some more and re-check my soldering.

EDIT 2: Looks like I wire the mode switch wrong. very frustrating
Fixed that and replaced R8 with a higher value and now every thing works.


CJ Miller

How crucial is the 470ohm value for those resistors? I am surprised to be short of them. I could replace them in a few days, but also I have others between 390 and 510 ohms. Any idea what sort of behavior I should expect if I increase or decrease this value?

Thanks so much for these great boards! Very much looking forward to the expanded FlopSeq.




Citisyn

CJ Miller wrote:
How crucial is the 470ohm value for those resistors? I am surprised to be short of them. I could replace them in a few days, but also I have others between 390 and 510 ohms. Any idea what sort of behavior I should expect if I increase or decrease this value?

Thanks so much for these great boards! Very much looking forward to the expanded FlopSeq.



Changing the values of those resistors should only affect the brightness of the LEDs. However, at least on mine, the value of R8 seems to affect the voltage present ant pins 4 and 9 of U5, which controls the direction/ resetting of the sequencer.


CJ Miller

Citisyn wrote:
Changing the values of those resistors should only affect the brightness of the LEDs. However, at least on mine, the value of R8 seems to affect the voltage present ant pins 4 and 9 of U5, which controls the direction/ resetting of the sequencer.


Affects it how? What value did you choose, and what happens with the sequencer action?

I am probably going to go with 510 ohm, because I have so many of these. We'll see what happens!


J3RK

Citisyn wrote:
J3RK wrote:


I've only run across something like this once, and was unable to reproduce it, but what it appeared to be is that something caused the seed for the binary counter to be off, so it skipped a step or two. Powering it off and then back on fixed this though. Never got it to happen again though. I've built and tested four of them now without any issues. I'll take a look at one of mine when I get home tonight, and see if I can find some things for you to check.


I appreciate that, I'll keep poking around myself and see if I can figure it out.

EDIT: (Accidentally) Removed R8 and PingPong mode works. In the other modes, the counter counts in the right direction but still counts to 10. I'll study the schematics some more and re-check my soldering.

EDIT 2: Looks like I wire the mode switch wrong. very frustrating
Fixed that and replaced R8 with a higher value and now every thing works.


I'm glad to hear that you got it working! I apologize for not being of any help. I've had basically no time for the last few days to work on anything.


asterisk

what goes in BP1-8 on the PCB?

RV1-8 are the 100k pots right?
since there are 3 pads are they just wired up 1,2,3 from the pots?

CV & Gate are outputs?
and CLK is the clock input?

can someone link to the type of rotary switch that works with the 4 pads?


asterisk

bump.

dustin, what goes in BP1-8 on the PCB?

can you link to the type or rotary switch you used and how its wired to the 4 pads?


Citisyn

asterisk wrote:
bump.

dustin, what goes in BP1-8 on the PCB?

can you link to the type or rotary switch you used and how its wired to the 4 pads?


BP1-8 are bypass capacitors. I used 10n. For the switch, you need a 3 position ON-ON-ON switch. I used this one: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=SR2511F-0303-19R0B-E 9-S-Wvirtualkey14860000virtualkey105-SR2511F-33S. It's a 3 pole switch and you only need a single pole, but it was the cheapest one I could find. When I get back from work, I'll try and draw up a wiring diagram for how I hooked it up.


asterisk

what do the bypass capacitors do? or what are they there for?
are they necessary for this build?


Citisyn

asterisk wrote:
what do the bypass capacitors do? or what are they there for?
are they necessary for this build?


Someone could probably explain this better, but basically, bypass or decoupling capacitors are there to protect your ICs from transient voltages or a noisy power supply. I accidentally left out a couple and fried the associated ICs, so I would defiantly recommend including them.

Back to the switch. Now that I've had a chance to look at it, I see that the one I linked to is not the one I bought because I found the 4 pole version at Futurlec for $1. Again, all you need is a single pole 3 position (ON-ON-ON) switch. Attached is a drawing showing the terminals labeled by function. I'm not much of a graphic artist, so hopefully it makes sense.

As for hooking it up to the PCB, looking at the board with the connections for SW1 in the top left, the order of the solder pads from left to right is: forward, pingpong, backward, common.

Anyway, hope I could be of some assistance.


asterisk

thanks, thats very helpful. i might just use a regular switch instead of a rotary in the end.

have any of you successfully done the separate gate outputs for the flopSEQ yet? just wondering how that is working for people. it adds a bunch of jacks and will increase panel space but i think it might be worth it.


cleaninglady

asterisk wrote:
thanks, thats very helpful. i might just use a regular switch instead of a rotary in the end.

have any of you successfully done the separate gate outputs for the flopSEQ yet? just wondering how that is working for people. it adds a bunch of jacks and will increase panel space but i think it might be worth it.


+1 here ; in regards to the separate gate outputs.w00t


J3RK

I found a little optimization today that will fix some minor slewing that you may experience between some steps. (usually one and 8 when repeating) The 10nF cap can be reduced quite a bit (down into the 100pF range.) Maybe a little higher. This is actually a little low pass filter for the CV outputs to keep them stable. 10nF is a little big for this. If you notice some slewing, just reduce this cap size.


cleaninglady

Is there any word of a Euro Panel for this project ?


negativspace

I'll share mine, when I get it done. (Which might be a month or two, I'm afraid.)


nangu

That's awesome! I'll be in for 2 panels- or more if there's going to be another PCB run at some point. Thanks!!


cleaninglady

negativspace wrote:
I'll share mine, when I get it done. (Which might be a month or two, I'm afraid.)


Awesome ! SlayerBadger! How many HP ?


negativspace

I haven't even started thinking about it. Dead Banana

(But I have 2 PCBs and sequencing is the weak spot in my rig, so...)


J3RK

I would be happy to do another run of these sometime during the summer. I'm a little behind on shipping things right now though, so it will have to be after the Fader boards ship in a couple of weeks.


asterisk

id love to get a euro panel for this too!
im hoping to make a temporary panel for this soon. im curious as to how large your panel would be and how to arrange the 8 steps. im thinking of doing two columns of 4 next to each other instead of a longer row of 8.

---

ive thought about using an ON-OFF-ON switch for the switch needed here.

also, this is useful information that dustin shared with me about the switch wiring.

pin 1 & 4 = forward (1-8)
pin 3 & 4 = backward (8-1)
open = ping pong

so it seems to me that an ON-OFF-ON switch would work. OFF would be open for ping pong and the two ON positions should work for forward and backward. im going to test it out today. ill let you know if it works or not. this is a cool little sequencer and a nice easy build. mine worked straight away.


J3RK

I'm thinking about doing a little companion board for this. I won't have the time to do the big MCU-based one for some time, so I thought this might be fun. Basically it would be an 8-step sequential switch, so that you could route each stage's CV level to a different place in the modular.

I was thinking this might be nice for doing pseudo drum-machine work, where you could send a certain CV pitch to a digital noise source, send another to the same source at a different pitch, control an oscillator or two for a kick, etc. but all in time. Mix all the sources through a mixer/fader.

I just started thinking about this, and other ways to get a bit more out of this sequencer. It should be terribly difficult, so I'll try to work that out over the next few weeks. (a few other items will need to wrap up first though)


Jarno

Yet another Flopseq!

Worked on first startup, I did change some small stuff to make wiring simpler. The GND connections of the leds and pots are bussed, as well as v+ on the pots, saves you quite a bit of wiring :-)

The resistors R1-8 are going in the led positions and leds are connection from one of the resistor pads.
I used 220pf for C1, and all bypass caps are 100nf smt, R1-8 are 560r and leds are very bright (high brightness red leds).

Connections for the rotary switch seen from below.
Left is common, then reverse-pingpong-forward.


ringstone

J3RK wrote:
I would be happy to do another run of these sometime during the summer. I'm a little behind on shipping things right now though, so it will have to be after the Fader boards ship in a couple of weeks.


Yes please! I missed out on the last run...

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: and just read negativspace is thinking about doing panels so... SlayerBadger!


Jarno

By the way, connections to the pots are v+ near the edge of the PCB, GND is furthest inward, wipers are middle pad (of course).
There are surprisingly little builds of the flopseq (imho) are more people working on this?


janvanvolt

if negativspace doing panels, count me in for two PCBs of the next run.


asterisk

ive built mine. just waiting on some blank panels to panel it up. hopefully soon. ill post some pics and audio. mine works great. i love it!


asterisk

so it seems that its easy to get individual gate outs from each step which is great news.

is it possible to add switches to turn on/off gate output for each step coming out of the master gate output from the PCB?

just wondering how to go about NOT having 8 more jacks for the individual gate outputs for each step. itd be nice to be able to turn on/off each step with a switch and have that gate pattern mix of ons/offs coming out of a single jack output. would it just be a matter of mixing the 8 indvidual gate outs down to 1 jack output with switches for each step to turn it off or on?

does this make any sense? has anyone tried this yet?

im hoping to get my flopSEQ behind a panel soon. looks like itll fit nicely parallel at 16HP.


Jarno

In a lot of of sequencers (4017 based) that's what's happing, individual gates which are mixed. Been looking at somehow building this in the existing circuitry but that's not going to be easy. So I built it straight up, and will build something else with switches for the gates.


Memory_Leak

Hopeful negativspace will do some panels, put me down for PCB of the next run.


asterisk

finally finished up building / wiring and putting my flopSEQ behind a panel tonight. i ended up adding individual gate outputs for each of the 8 steps which is really great to have!

here is a little test patch i made with it this evening:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/greg-davis/flopseq-test-052012[/s]

picture of the module coming soon......
have any of you guys built this thing yet? id love to hear / see what you did with it.
its a great little sequencer. thanks dustin!


Rod Serling Fan Club

asterisk - great sounding patch

Since you found the place to break-out the individual gates, presumably this is the point before they are summed. Wouldn't it be as simple as adding an SPST on-off switch to break this conenction if you wanted to control which gates go to the summed output?


303monkey

ringstone wrote:
J3RK wrote:
I would be happy to do another run of these sometime during the summer. I'm a little behind on shipping things right now though, so it will have to be after the Fader boards ship in a couple of weeks.


Yes please! I missed out on the last run...

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: and just read negativspace is thinking about doing panels so... SlayerBadger!


Count me in too please.
Boba Fett


asterisk

im not sure about adding switches, i didnt try that. ive been happy with having the individual gate ouputs. its nice to use different steps to trigger other events. in my patch above, i have steps 6 and 8 triggering the two channels on my maths which are going to VCAs...etc etc....

im not sure where the gates get summed for the main gate outputs. someone should try it out though. maybe it is that simple!

for me it was either having switches on each step and having one master gate output jack. or having jacks on each step and being able to send the separate gates from each step to different places in my synth. i obviously decided on the latter and im really enjoying it.

having said all of that, does anyone know of a really simple way to convert gates to triggers? a simple circuit would be helpful. i might want to change my gate outs to trigger outs.


cleaninglady

Just finished mine.

At present , it's a ghetto tech version in a Hammond box.

Haven't worked out powering it but it runs and works 100% when plugged into the modular power.

Looking into CGS60 Stomp Box Adapter today to try and get it going but i'm not sure if thats the right way to go. hmmm.....

Is there a thread that discusses powering 12V modules with a Wall Wart somewhere ?

Thanks to asterisk for the help on the Switch.

I went with the on/off/on switch option.

Can't wait for the panel from negativspace !

Would be great to get this into my system. Guinness ftw!


regularjackson

Does anybody have an extra board/ will there be another run?


Lyncaster

Im wondering rhe same


J3RK

I'd be happy to do another run sometime soon. I'm almost done shipping the crossfaders, at which point I'll feel good about starting another run/project. I'm glad people are finding this fun to use! I've got some possible companion designs that might be kind of fun with it too.

Nice demo Greg!


Rod Serling Fan Club

On the subject of companion designs. will these be seperate PCBs or a new updated PCB? The flip-flop sequencer has been a popular request for a buchla style panel. I have that panel design near completion with the current standard features. I am wondering if I should hold off on ordering panels until we know more about the companion features.


J3RK

Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
On the subject of companion designs. will these be seperate PCBs or a new updated PCB? The flip-flop sequencer has been a popular request for a buchla style panel. I have that panel design near completion with the current standard features. I am wondering if I should hold off on ordering panels until we know more about the companion features.


It would actually be fairly trivial to combine a few of these into one board. Maybe a clock, clock divider, logic, and the sequencer?

I've got two options currently for logic. I've got the Compute board, which is undergoing a few updates/improvements, which contains NOT, AND, OR, and XOR. However, it's geared strictly toward logic level functions.

I also have an XOR circuit that will take just about anything at the inputs (comparators) and then output both a logic level output, and a bipolar audio output. It's more flexible, but obviously minus three other logic operations. I'd still lean toward this guy though I think.

I've been working on a board that has all four operations with the logic and audio outs, but it's going to be 4"x4" to squeeze the extra parts on, and doesn't quite line up with my X"x3" board standard.

I'm open to suggestions with this.


raisinbag

Hmm missed this one I'd be game to grab a floppy seq if you do a run.


FrankV

Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
The flip-flop sequencer has been a popular request for a buchla style panel. I have that panel design near completion with the current standard features.


Out of curiosity, have you made the design public?

I've done a funky/fanciful circular one that presumes a separate pulse output (as well as the gate, expecting to use the Ken Stone Gate-to-pulse circuit) and an on-board clock, possibly voltage controllable (pending further experiments).

So, my fantasy panel looks sorta like this (the circular and radial lines by the 8 pots and LEDs are/were guides, not expected to be present on the final panel):


I'd be keen to see your version, of course... 8_)

Frank


J3RK

I worked up some PCBs last night for something along these lines. I'll have to take a closer look at panel connections/controls to make sure I didn't overdo it on that side of things.

There are two 3"x"5" boards. Between the two of them, they include:

-Dual clock
-Simple /2/3/4 clock divider
-XOR (accepts just about any input, and outputs both bipolar audio, and logic level signals)
-Simple gate to trigger converter
-One loopable AD envelope
-FlopSeq08

These features can be swapped out for others, but they all seemed to fit nicely on the boards, and would work nicely together. seriously, i just don't get it

Any thoughts?

These are more or less ready to get test boards ordered, but I'd love a bit of input on it. I'm not sure if the looping AD is the best choice, but with it in place, this module would only need a sound source and amplifier or gate to get some interesting sounds and rhythms going.

Another idea for that "slot" might be a simple logic AND or OR, or maybe something else entirely.

The previous version can be run again at any time as well for something simpler.


Rod Serling Fan Club

FrankV wrote:
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
I have that panel design near completion with the current standard features.


Out of curiosity, have you made the design public?


I like your circular design. Here is what I posted in the buchla panel discussion thread. It's meant to look like the buchla 123 module and features 2 flopseqs. It's probably not clear but there would be row of LEDs then a row of knobs which account for all the holes.




Rod Serling Fan Club

J3RK wrote:
I worked up some PCBs last night for something along these lines. I'll have to take a closer look at panel connections/controls to make sure I didn't overdo it on that side of things.

There are two 3"x"5" boards. Between the two of them, they include:

-Dual clock
-Simple /2/3/4 clock divider
-XOR (accepts just about any input, and outputs both bipolar audio, and logic level signals)
-Simple gate to trigger converter
-One loopable AD envelope
-FlopSeq08

These features can be swapped out for others, but they all seemed to fit nicely on the boards, and would work nicely together. seriously, i just don't get it

Any thoughts?

These are more or less ready to get test boards ordered, but I'd love a bit of input on it. I'm not sure if the looping AD is the best choice, but with it in place, this module would only need a sound source and amplifier or gate to get some interesting sounds and rhythms going.

Another idea for that "slot" might be a simple logic AND or OR, or maybe something else entirely.


Sounds like some nice features.

My only concern would be that I think there are a bunch of us that have slopseq boards. Buying new boards that contain the flopseq is a bit redundant. Can you say which features are on the PCB that doesn't include the flopseq? Maybe if the boards are offered separately, those of up with original flopseqs can choose to supplement them with the add-on PCB that doesn't include the flopseq.


asterisk

im interested in an add on board with these features:
-Dual clock
-Simple /2/3/4 clock divider
-XOR (accepts just about any input, and outputs both bipolar audio, and logic level signals)
-Simple gate to trigger converter

and any other cool logic stuff.


i agree with rod serling, for those of us that have already built a FlopSeq, itd be redundant to have the flopseq as an add on board. unless you are still thinking that will be a single board and everything else will go onto the add on boards.

i finally got my panel all wired up and functional and everything last night. its not pretty but its working great now. ill post a pic soon.


J3RK

Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
J3RK wrote:
I worked up some PCBs last night for something along these lines. I'll have to take a closer look at panel connections/controls to make sure I didn't overdo it on that side of things.

There are two 3"x"5" boards. Between the two of them, they include:

-Dual clock
-Simple /2/3/4 clock divider
-XOR (accepts just about any input, and outputs both bipolar audio, and logic level signals)
-Simple gate to trigger converter
-One loopable AD envelope
-FlopSeq08

These features can be swapped out for others, but they all seemed to fit nicely on the boards, and would work nicely together. seriously, i just don't get it

Any thoughts?

These are more or less ready to get test boards ordered, but I'd love a bit of input on it. I'm not sure if the looping AD is the best choice, but with it in place, this module would only need a sound source and amplifier or gate to get some interesting sounds and rhythms going.

Another idea for that "slot" might be a simple logic AND or OR, or maybe something else entirely.


Sounds like some nice features.

My only concern would be that I think there are a bunch of us that have slopseq boards. Buying new boards that contain the flopseq is a bit redundant. Can you say which features are on the PCB that doesn't include the flopseq? Maybe if the boards are offered separately, those of up with original flopseqs can choose to supplement them with the add-on PCB that doesn't include the flopseq.


This "newer" Flopseq board just has the AD tacked onto it. I wanted to make the boards match in size and mounting, so I thought I'd put the extra space to use. Other than that, all of the clocking features are on the other board. It may actually make more sense to just do the clocking companion and the original board. Only two mounting holes would line up, but that should be sufficient.

I could also rearrange the features to where the clock was the "extra" part of the Flopseq board. It would be a nice improvement to include an internal clock. Of course one doesn't even have to populate that section of the board either, if it's not going to be used.


jbaken

would definitely love one of these new boards


Rod Serling Fan Club

J3RK wrote:
It may actually make more sense to just do the clocking companion and the original board. Only two mounting holes would line up, but that should be sufficient.



I like this idea best so far.

Can you detail what all the controls would be so I can think of how this add-on board might best be implemented in a panel? I'm guessing the clock divider is just 4 jacks, the XOR is 4 jacks, gate to trigger is 2. Not sure what features the clocks have. Are they 0-10v?

Looking at all these features, I could see them easily filling a single buchla panel. It appears to me all of them can stand alone and aren't necessarily tied to or dependent on the sequencer, is this right? If that is the case I'd probably lean towards making a separate panel for this and going with the sequencer design I already have presented. On the other hand if this has features that directly affect how the sequencer operates that would be good to know. I mean things such as adding switches for steps, gate outputs or anything of that nature.


J3RK

Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
J3RK wrote:
It may actually make more sense to just do the clocking companion and the original board. Only two mounting holes would line up, but that should be sufficient.



I like this idea best so far.

Can you detail what all the controls would be so I can think of how this add-on board might best be implemented in a panel? I'm guessing the clock divider is just 4 jacks, the XOR is 4 jacks, gate to trigger is 2. Not sure what features the clocks have. Are they 0-10v?

Looking at all these features, I could see them easily filling a single buchla panel. It appears to me all of them can stand alone and aren't necessarily tied to or dependent on the sequencer, is this right? If that is the case I'd probably lean towards making a separate panel for this and going with the sequencer design I already have presented. On the other hand if this has features that directly affect how the sequencer operates that would be good to know. I mean things such as adding switches for steps, gate outputs or anything of that nature.


That's a really good idea actually. I like your current panel. Going this route would open more options for a second module. Like added logic.

Currently my designs are set up for:

0 to 15V logic
-5V to +5V audio
CVs (depending on what they are,) are either 0 to 10V or -5V to +5V. Things like PWM or crossfaders, it makes sense to use a bipolar signal with 0 center.

Not exactly Buchla specs. The logic level could be clamped easily enough. I don't know about changing the other ranges though.

For the sequencer specifically, the output is 0 to 10V for CV.

It's starting to look like I need to buy a Buchla cabinet!

All this 4U DIY is absolutely beautiful. woah


asterisk

here's a picture of my final FlopSEQ build with panel.
i used 2x8HP doepfer blanks. the PCB fits nicely parallel to the panel behind 16HP.



this is a really cool little sequencer. simple but musical and fun to use.

p.s. does anyone know of a good way to glue LEDs onto metal so that they hold in place and dont slide out? or are there other adhesives that are better? i tried some super glue but it did not bond the plastic to the metal.


iopop

I glue a few stacked washers behind the panel. This gives a bit more space for the LED to glue onto and they won't stick out completely.


Monobass

asterisk wrote:
here's a picture of my final FlopSEQ build with panel.
i used 2x8HP doepfer blanks. the PCB fits nicely parallel to the panel behind 16HP.



this is a really cool little sequencer. simple but musical and fun to use.

p.s. does anyone know of a good way to glue LEDs onto metal so that they hold in place and dont slide out? or are there other adhesives that are better? i tried some super glue but it did not bond the plastic to the metal.


what are the outputs next to the knobs? trig outs?


cleaninglady

MonobassThey are Gate Outs. (i have been corrected , they are not Trigger Outs , my bad...)


Memory_Leak

@ asterisk

what about these mate ?

LED Bezels Holders


J3RK

I ordered test boards for the companion board. I can likely shrink it down about an inch which would make it Euro friendly as well.

It contains two clocks, XOR, clock divider, and simple gate to trigger converter. (I may make the latter a dual G to T.)

I should have the test boards back in a couple of days, and pending the results, could kick off a run shortly after. I'll start an interest check thread for it after I test it a bit.


FrankV

J3RK wrote:
It contains two clocks, XOR, clock divider, and simple gate to trigger converter. (I may make the latter a dual G to T.)


At the well-understood risk of promoting feature creep, (hides) what might be involved in providing, on the 'helper' board, a conditioning circuit to tap off the LED drives (or however it's done) to provide for either 8 separate gates, or one switchable gate that could be programmed with 8 switches?

Feel free to disregard if you desire. d'oh!

Frank


J3RK

FrankV wrote:
J3RK wrote:
It contains two clocks, XOR, clock divider, and simple gate to trigger converter. (I may make the latter a dual G to T.)


At the well-understood risk of promoting feature creep, (hides) what might be involved in providing, on the 'helper' board, a conditioning circuit to tap off the LED drives (or however it's done) to provide for either 8 separate gates, or one switchable gate that could be programmed with 8 switches?

Feel free to disregard if you desire. d'oh!

Frank


That wouldn't be terribly difficult. I'd make a pad to connect to, then buffer it before putting it back out. This would require 8 op amps, so two TL074s would do the trick. Those are gates for the full length of the step, so maybe converting that to a trigger-length pulse might be more useful.

That would require a couple resistors a cap, and diode for each gate. So... Simple, but would likely take the rest of the space that I was going to eliminate to shrink the board a bit for other formats. I'll see if there's a good way to cram this in, AND reduce the size a bit. Mr. Green


FrankV

J3RK wrote:
So... Simple, but would likely take the rest of the space that I was going to eliminate to shrink the board a bit for other formats.


Oops! oops Well, don't feel obligated on solely my behalf (I'd buy one either way).

F


J3RK

I threw a prototype together tonight (boards just arrived,) and it works great so far. w00t I need to correct a couple small items (like forgetting pads for one LED,) and I need to scope it to make sure the divider is dividing on the right edges, but it's looking good. Lot's of blinking lights.

I'm going to work on shrinking it slightly, and I think it will be ready to go. I could do a run for this soon, and a simultaneous re-run of the FlopSeq board itself.

I'll grab a quick video of it tomorrow. Taking the bipolar audio output from the XOR, and playing with the clocks is kind of fun. Mr. Green Ring-mod(ish) squares.

Anyway I think this combo could be a lot of fun.


cleaninglady

looking forward to it ! w00t

will it complement the original Flop Seq PCB ?


ringstone

asterisk wrote:
p.s. does anyone know of a good way to glue LEDs onto metal so that they hold in place and dont slide out? or are there other adhesives that are better? i tried some super glue but it did not bond the plastic to the metal.


Have you thought about using LED bezels at all? I never liked the black plastic ones, but these days there are some nice metal ones (they are quite large though) and even better, clear plastic ones that push through the panel hole and the LED clips into the back of them.

Cheers
Blair


J3RK

cleaninglady wrote:
looking forward to it ! w00t

will it complement the original Flop Seq PCB ?


Yes. It will be a bit longer, but will have two common mounting holes, and will work quite well with the original board. In fact, the re-issue will be a VERY slightly updated version of the original. I won't be adding anything to it, just some slight tweaks to trace routing, etc. I'll post more details soon.


asterisk

ill have to look into bezels, never tried them.
can you get them from mouser in different sizes or something?

ringstone wrote:
asterisk wrote:
p.s. does anyone know of a good way to glue LEDs onto metal so that they hold in place and dont slide out? or are there other adhesives that are better? i tried some super glue but it did not bond the plastic to the metal.


Have you thought about using LED bezels at all? I never liked the black plastic ones, but these days there are some nice metal ones (they are quite large though) and even better, clear plastic ones that push through the panel hole and the LED clips into the back of them.

Cheers
Blair



J3RK

asterisk wrote:
ill have to look into bezels, never tried them.
can you get them from mouser in different sizes or something?

ringstone wrote:
asterisk wrote:
p.s. does anyone know of a good way to glue LEDs onto metal so that they hold in place and dont slide out? or are there other adhesives that are better? i tried some super glue but it did not bond the plastic to the metal.


Have you thought about using LED bezels at all? I never liked the black plastic ones, but these days there are some nice metal ones (they are quite large though) and even better, clear plastic ones that push through the panel hole and the LED clips into the back of them.

Cheers
Blair


Tayda has plastic and metal ones, and they're priced well. I would check them out. The ones I use for my synth-boxes are Lumex 3mm LEDs that include the bezel and leads (multiple lead lengths are availble.) These are quite easy to use. Just push them in, and wire them. thumbs up

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumex/SSI-LXH312GD250/?qs=zorda86t 5M%2fJViE3qnLixSJ1TZsZ9xgZdOMS2ddps5E%3d


ringstone

J3RK wrote:
asterisk wrote:
ill have to look into bezels, never tried them.
can you get them from mouser in different sizes or something?

ringstone wrote:
asterisk wrote:
p.s. does anyone know of a good way to glue LEDs onto metal so that they hold in place and dont slide out? or are there other adhesives that are better? i tried some super glue but it did not bond the plastic to the metal.


Have you thought about using LED bezels at all? I never liked the black plastic ones, but these days there are some nice metal ones (they are quite large though) and even better, clear plastic ones that push through the panel hole and the LED clips into the back of them.

Cheers
Blair


Tayda has plastic and metal ones, and they're priced well. I would check them out. The ones I use for my synth-boxes are Lumex 3mm LEDs that include the bezel and leads (multiple lead lengths are availble.) These are quite easy to use. Just push them in, and wire them. thumbs up

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumex/SSI-LXH312GD250/?qs=zorda86t 5M%2fJViE3qnLixSJ1TZsZ9xgZdOMS2ddps5E%3d


I quite like these ones too, I buy the clear ones but they are also available in different colours:

http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/SML190CTP/?qs=YfTKvZjIiZzIzIFf5 rHlfNnu15N3Ery6mOvI6WfzNu0%3d

Cheers
Blair


J3RK

Here's a quick video of the companion board running the FlopSeq. It's a simple patch, as I've more or less dismantled my test synth at the moment. d'oh!

The two clocks are run into each input of the XOR circuit. Changing the speeds will tweak the offset, and produce some interesting rhythms. I'm not using the divider here, but you can see the divisions by the LED on the gate-to-trigger circuit. (white light in corner) I'll be giving the divider its own LED, but I accidentally left this off the test board.

When I get a minute, I'll make a quick demo of the audio output from the XOR.




asterisk

ive decided to try and make a FPE panel for my FlopSEQ.
it is 16HP and the PCB would mount parallel to the panel nicely. (i have not included the mounting holes on my design)
check it out and let me know what you all think.
my panel includes separate gate outs for each step.
the mixed gate out on the bottom might be a little unnecessary since the individual gate outs are available. i was thinking of just making that gate out on the bottow a simple clock out (like a mult of the clock in or something)

id be happy to share the FPD file if anyone wants it.....




asterisk

blair,
those bezels look great.
do they just snap in to a standard 3mm hole?
and then the LED snaps in the back?
ill have to try them out.
thanks!


ringstone wrote:
asterisk wrote:
p.s. does anyone know of a good way to glue LEDs onto metal so that they hold in place and dont slide out? or are there other adhesives that are better? i tried some super glue but it did not bond the plastic to the metal.


Have you thought about using LED bezels at all? I never liked the black plastic ones, but these days there are some nice metal ones (they are quite large though) and even better, clear plastic ones that push through the panel hole and the LED clips into the back of them.

Cheers
Blair
[/quote]

Tayda has plastic and metal ones, and they're priced well. I would check them out. The ones I use for my synth-boxes are Lumex 3mm LEDs that include the bezel and leads (multiple lead lengths are availble.) These are quite easy to use. Just push them in, and wire them. thumbs up

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumex/SSI-LXH312GD250/?qs=zorda86t 5M%2fJViE3qnLixSJ1TZsZ9xgZdOMS2ddps5E%3d[/quote]

I quite like these ones too, I buy the clear ones but they are also available in different colours:

http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/SML190CTP/?qs=YfTKvZjIiZzIzIFf5 rHlfNnu15N3Ery6mOvI6WfzNu0%3d

Cheers
Blair[/quote]


ringstone

asterisk wrote:
blair,
those bezels look great.
do they just snap in to a standard 3mm hole?
and then the LED snaps in the back?
ill have to try them out.
thanks!


Hi mate

You need a hole a bit larger than 3mm (around 5mm?). Actually Clarke would know the exact size, he uses these on his panels... they will go in if the hole is a bit smaller, but then it's very hard to get the led in.

They snap into the hole, then the led snaps in the back. There seems to be a little bit of tolerance with different makes of 3mm leds but not had any issues yet.

Cheers
Blair


asterisk

hi blair, thanks thats good to know.
if anyone knows the proper panel hole size for those bezels, thatd be great.


J3RK

Hey! Just noticed your question. I use those Lumex LEDs. The hole size I use is 0.17" The datasheet says 0.174" but I like them to seat a little tighter. This is the size I specify in FPD for a drill-hole, so it should translate perfectly to your panel. The thicker the panel, the better these hold as well. I tend to do 3mm panels for my boxed synths (which are thicker than typical for a modular panel I believe, (though MOTM-style 5U might be close or the same.)


asterisk

thats .17 for the LED lenses right? i think they show .171 on the datasheet.

the lumex LEDs linked above have a different measurement on the datasheet i think. (looks like .157 or 4mm)


J3RK

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumex/SSI-LXH312GD250/?qs=zorda86t %205M%2fJViE3qnLixSJ1TZsZ9xgZdOMS2ddps5E%3d

The ones in this link are 3mm LEDs. With the built-in bezel the hole size is listed in the datasheet as .170 to .174" under the mounting hole specification toward the lower left of the page. I use the smaller .170" size for the holes as they stay in tight that way.

I don't have any experience with the lenses in your second link. However, it looks like you're correct based on the data-sheet. .171 for the drill-hole.


asterisk

oh ok i see, i think i might go the lenses route since i already have lots of regular 3mm LEDs around here.


J3RK

asterisk wrote:
oh ok i see, i think i might go the lenses route since i already have lots of regular 3mm LEDs around here.


I bought a TON of 3mm LEDs from Tayda, and have yet to use them. (for the very fact that I don't have any lenses like those ones) Probably should pick some up. Mr. Green

I do like how easy it is to just push those other ones in though, plus the leads are already attached.


wavehead

Would love to hear the audio coming from the XOR.. one of the things making me want to build this the most as I have no XORs right now.


J3RK

wavehead wrote:
Would love to hear the audio coming from the XOR.. one of the things making me want to build this the most as I have no XORs right now.


Basically it sounds like a ring-modulated square wave. My bench is a mess because of a project I'm working on, but I'll hook this stuff up again soon and record a bit for you.


303monkey

Is there going to be another run of the FlopSeq & Companion boards.

This might be good timing as there is a run for the Buchlaesque FlopSeq panel.


keninverse

303monkey wrote:
Is there going to be another run of the FlopSeq & Companion boards.

This might be good timing as there is a run for the Buchlaesque FlopSeq panel.


Secondededed


J3RK

I'm starting to think about this again. I've had quite a few people asking for another run. I plan to do one in January or so.

In the meantime, I've been thinking more about a companion board. I'm thinking less and less along the lines of internal clocks, and more about different features that could be added to make it a bit more fun or unique.

One thought is to have VC inputs for each stage, that can be switched or normalled between the knob and the voltage input. So, instead of a solid knob-controlled tone for a given step, it could be a modulated voltage. Could be fun.

A set of gate to trigger converters that could be tapped from the hacked-in individual gate outputs might be nice, so that the gates didn't completely overlap each other. Pads for switches to turn them on and off would be nice too. I could also add proper pads on the FS08 board for future runs, to make tapping this signal easier.

It's also possible that different seeds could be created to make random(ish) patterns.

And maybe an internal clock, but I don't know how useful that would really be, since you can clock these with anything.


djangosfire

J3RK wrote:

One thought is to have VC inputs for each stage, that can be switched or normalled between the knob and the voltage input. So, instead of a solid knob-controlled tone for a given step, it could be a modulated voltage. Could be fun.

A set of gate to trigger converters that could be tapped from the hacked-in individual gate outputs might be nice, so that the gates didn't completely overlap each other. Pads for switches to turn them on and off would be nice too. I could also add proper pads on the FS08 board for future runs, to make tapping this signal easier.

It's also possible that different seeds could be created to make random(ish) patterns.

And maybe an internal clock, but I don't know how useful that would really be, since you can clock these with anything.


Without a doubt - please consider all of these ideas - excellent! Especially the external voltage per stage option = MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING


Microscopial

I'm in for new boards please


Pfurmel

^I'm pretty sure the doepfer a 155/154 had similar capability, that was a super fun sequencer while I had it. Sold it to fund SDIY, now looks like it may come full circle.


djangosfire

I working up a "multi-module" - starting with a Flop Seq. I hope to have it finished later this evening. The top half of the module will possibly be for 1x 281, and 1x cvp..... OR a J3RK logic section???

Quick pic of the Buchla format module so far:





cleaninglady

Some great Banana action there Adam. SlayerBadger!


valis

That would be really cool. In an ideal world maybe we could convince rsfc to do a breakout/utility panel for the flop. If not, one could always use their own blanks. Regardless, sound fun. Thanks!

J3RK wrote:
I'm starting to think about this again. I've had quite a few people asking for another run. I plan to do one in January or so.

In the meantime, applause I've been thinking more about a companion board. I'm thinking less and less along the lines of internal clocks, and more about different features that could be added to make it a bit more fun or unique.

One thought is to have VC inputs for each stage, that can be switched or normalled between the knob and the voltage input. So, instead of a solid knob-controlled tone for a given step, it could be a modulated voltage. Could be fun.

A set of gate to trigger converters that could be tapped from the hacked-in individual gate outputs might be nice, so that the gates didn't completely overlap each other. Pads for switches to turn them on and off would be nice too. I could also add proper pads on the FS08 board for future runs, to make tapping this signal easier.

It's also possible that different seeds could be created to make random(ish) patterns.

And maybe an internal clock, but I don't know how useful that would really be, since you can clock these with anything.



djangosfire

"The Flop" lives!! Surprising and wonderful little analog sequencer - Thanks Dustin for a GREAT module love

The only thing I'd like to do is cut down the LED brightness...... any recommended values? I know, it depends on the LED's used (I actually grabbed some random bright white that I had in my spare parts bin). . . .

ANY tips appreciated - thanks again Guinness ftw!


J3RK

Thanks! Your panel looks great too! Yes, the LEDs can be bright depending on which ones you use. You can swap out those 470R resistors for something like 680R or even 1K would be fine.


hank

djangosfire wrote:
I working up a "multi-module" - starting with a Flop Seq. I hope to have it finished later this evening. The top half of the module will possibly be for 1x 281, and 1x cvp..... OR a J3RK logic section???

That is one pretty panel! Where did you find those knobs?


djangosfire

hank wrote:
djangosfire wrote:
I working up a "multi-module" - starting with a Flop Seq. I hope to have it finished later this evening. The top half of the module will possibly be for 1x 281, and 1x cvp..... OR a J3RK logic section???

That is one pretty panel! Where did you find those knobs?


Thanks!!

I've been getting my small black knobs from Mouser.com

5164-1610AA
MFG Part No:1610AA
1610AA
Davies Knobs & Dials

and:

5164-1600BM
MFG Part No:1600BM
1600BM
Davies Knobs & Dials

Cheers,

_ Adam


djangosfire

J3RK wrote:
Thanks! Your panel looks great too! Yes, the LEDs can be bright depending on which ones you use. You can swap out those 470R resistors for something like 680R or even 1K would be fine.


Thanks Dustin - I actually ended up using 47k and the brightness is now mellow and nice smile

I'll try posting a vid of the module - great sequencer!! w00t


djangosfire

Made vid using/testing/twiddling the FlopSeq as it twists some cacophony out of some 100 modules posted here

Rockin' Banana!


knob_alchemist

Hey are there boards available? And what about the run of boards with added features?? ...Please tell me that there is Flopseq boards available???


303monkey

I still be wanting two of those there fliperdy flop sequencer PCB's too.
Boba Fett


J3RK

I would like to do another run of these in the near future. I would like to get the Complex VCO out and about first, but this would be the next thing on my list I think.

I have something that would make an excellent companion for it, but it's not really a Euro friendly board. It's 3"x5". I guess if you were doing a wide/horizontal sequencer module it would work sideways though. I'll think more about this when I get ready to run the boards again though. I have a ton of clocking and logic function blocks that could be added in any combination to a companion board.

Any thoughts on what would be nice to include?

I'm thinking a buffering board with caps to shorten the "gates" that can be pulled from the LED drivers would be nice. This would buffer the outputs, shorten the pulses to be a bit more discrete. Then maybe a clock, divider, and some logic. That's kind of what I was working on before, and then got side-tracked. I already have all of these functions created though, so adding them to a PCB layout is fairly trivial.

Anyway...


jooks

I just finished a 2x flopseq and having some strange results.



Everything works as expected when clocked from a 281 and cv into a vco. But when the clock input isnt connected, stages can be changed by turning the pots. This only happens when a banana plug is inserted but unconnected. And if I plug the gate out from the 1st into the trig input of the 2nd the two will clock each other by turning pots in either one seriously, i just don't get it Its actualy a quite cool random effect but I dont want it to spit out something from the gate input.

I have used 680R for R1-> R8 and Looking at the schem it seems that the value for R1 and R8 can have an effect on reset-set on the 4013. But Is this enough to explain the problem? I also used 1nF instead of 10nF which might have something to do with it also? I will try to change some values when I have time but this will be later this week. Any ideas in the meantime?

I think I will really like this one when finished! Blinking lights and double sequence. Many thanks j3rk we're not worthy


J3RK

You will get some odd results with a "flying" cable. Especially if you touch the end of it. This could be one of a few things, but all of the ones I've built do this. I've never had it change when turning pots though. So that's a new one for me.

I'll try this when I get home. I use bananas too, and have one in my synth currently. I know it will do fun things when touching the gate input cable, but I'm almost positive it doesn't change around with the knobs. I'll post back soon.


camelneck

djangosfire wrote:
J3RK wrote:
Thanks! Your panel looks great too! Yes, the LEDs can be bright depending on which ones you use. You can swap out those 470R resistors for something like 680R or even 1K would be fine.


Thanks Dustin - I actually ended up using 47k and the brightness is now mellow and nice smile

I'll try posting a vid of the module - great sequencer!! w00t


Most circuit designer's calculate the value of the LED resistor (R) so the forward current (If) flowing through the LED is approximately 17 to 20mA.
Therefore, if the diode has a maximum If of 20mA it will be operating at maximum brightness. However, if you are using LEDs that have If specs that are less than 15 - 20mA, you need to increase the value of R so less current will flow through the LED. Otherwise, your LED will burn out prematurely.

I usually use LED's that are of average brightness (rated between 2,000 - 4,000 mcd). By using less than the diode's rated maximum forward current (If), I often reduce the brighness of the LED by about 50% which I find to be more desirable. To accomplish this, I usually choose a resistor that sets If to a value that is 1/5 of the rated maximum If.

For example, if an LED has a maximum forward current (If) of 20mA, I choose a resistor that sets If to a value around 4 mA, which is only 1/5 of the maximum forward current. If I use a 2mA resistor, I might choose a resistor that sets If to 0.4mA. This reduces the brightness to the desired level and it saves a lot of power. Finally, if you are using ultrabright LED's or the LEDs are too bright for you, try an R value around 47K as Adam did.

For this project, my recommendations for R can be best summarized as:

If you are using 20mA LED's, try a resistor value (R) of 1.8K.
If you are using 10mA LED's, try R = 3.3K.
If you are using 2mA, try R = 18K (or 15K to 20K).
If the LED's are too bright (or if you are using ultrabright LED's), you may be able to use R = 33K to 51K.
If the LED's aren't bright enough decrease the value of R. If they are still too bright, increase the value of R. Everybody has their own opinion about what is too bright and too dim.

IMPORTANT (POWER SAVINGS):
If a module has 2 - 3 LEDs that are capable of being on at the same time (and you are sending 20mA or more through each LED), there is a good chance that the LEDs draw more current than the rest of the module. Reducing the LED current from 20mA to 4mA means you could power twice as many of these modules from the same power supply!

The fact is you can send 10mA of current through a 20mA LED and the LED will only appear slightly dimmer. Yet you are reducing the current draw of the module by 10mA per LED.

I encourage everyone to take the time to do their own experiments. All you need is a $20 VOM that is capable of reading small current values.


knob_alchemist

Hope to see soon a new run of this sequencer PCB..... we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy


makers

I'm working on one of these. I was shorted the 100k pots on my order this week but I have enough 50k pots lying about. Any opinions as to whether 50k would work as a substitute?


knob_alchemist

I don't understand why there isn't a long queue of wigglers interested in tris project...UP UP UP UP...

If help to do a new run I can also pay in advance the PCB...other people interested?????? we're not worthy


J3RK

50k pots should be just fine. I may have answered that via PM.

As far as a new run, I've been chatting with Synthcube about doing these sometime after the MCVCO. I actually have a lot of time on my hands at the moment, so I could possibly do a quick old fashioned board run a still ship at a reasonable rate. Let me get some pricing for it, do a couple of minor updates, and go from there.


djangosfire

J3RK wrote:
so I could possibly do a quick old fashioned board run a still ship at a reasonable rate. Let me get some pricing for it, do a couple of minor updates, and go from there.


w00t w00t w00t w00t

Such a great sequencer!! I'm in for some pcbs if you end up having time smile Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!


knob_alchemist

J3RK wrote:
I actually have a lot of time on my hands at the moment, so I could possibly do a quick old fashioned board run a still ship at a reasonable rate. Let me get some pricing for it, do a couple of minor updates, and go from there.


That's a great news!!!!!!! Thank you J3RK!!!!!!!!! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana! It's motherfucking bacon yo hyper hyper


J3RK

If we hit around 25 or more boards or so we are good. I'm tweaking the mounting holes slightly to line up with all of my other boards to make comounting easier. I will also add the overlaid euro header for euro builders. It would probably be extremely easy to add an internal clock as well, so I'll monkey with that a bit. It would still accept external as well.

I'll do this today. I will open this or another thread for orders shortly after. I'll make it quick in the interest of wrapping everything up while I still have time to ship reliably. Plus I think it will be available from the dists at some point anyway.

w00t


J3RK

Oops double post....


knob_alchemist

J3RK wrote:
If we hit around 25 or more boards or so we are good. I'm tweaking the mounting holes slightly to line up with all of my other boards to make comounting easier. I will also add the overlaid euro header for euro builders. It would probably be extremely easy to add an internal clock as well, so I'll monkey with that a bit. It would still accept external as well.

I'll do this today. I will open this or another thread for orders shortly after. I'll make it quick in the interest of wrapping everything up while I still have time to ship reliably. Plus I think it will be available from the dists at some point anyway.

w00t


Very good...I do some advertising for this run as soon as you start to take orders... nanners hyper hyper hyper w00t


Rod Serling Fan Club

I'm pretty sure there are some people who bought panels from me that need PCBs. Also, I still have some buchla format panels for a dual flopseq.


Bass Clef

definitely up for a PCB if you do another run...


Microscopial

I'm in brother. You doing faceplates as well. Or is Clarke on that duty


knob_alchemist

Interested in 2 PCBs...is there someone that has a Dual Eurorack Panel for that?????


J3RK

I'd be happy to whip up a quick FPD, but I have actually never done a panel design outside of FPD. I'll see if I can whip something up, and then I'll post the file for people to use, refine, whichever. If this eventually goes to Synthcube or Thonk, I'm sure we'll get a panel done and offer kits perhaps, but I haven't talked at length with them about this design yet.

So, a couple of options here. I'm updating the mounting holes to be the same distances as all of my other boards (short of the Buchla clones,) so that they can co-mount, and adhere to my "standard". Which if anyone's interested are even 1" intervals, by usually 3" (except the MCVCO which is 4")

So, 1x3, 2x3, 3x3, 4x3, 5x3 etc.

So the mounting holes always end up at 2.7" apart for 3" axis, and X.7" on the other axes.

Anyway, where I'm going with this, is that I want to keep this Euro friendly, but I also want to add a couple of things to the board. So would anyone be opposed to me changing the board to a full 4"x3"? It's still within Euro friendly size, but a bit bigger than the old board. So, it wouldn't co-mount all that easily with the old ones if you have them laying around.

If I extend them a bit, I should be able to get a simple internal clock option, and maybe even a speck of logic or the like. I may also be able to add separate gate outputs or the like. I need to think about this one. I also saw someone do a cool build that simplified grounding for less wiring, etc. (though if using MTA headers it's not that big a process anyway I guess)

Please feel free to chime in. I'm poking at this today, and trying some things out. I may even update the schematic, and do a completely new board layout. All of my other projects are where they need to be, so I'm kind of excited to rework this a bit, while still keeping it fairly simple.

w00t w00t


knob_alchemist

Happy that I have re-powered this topic...I really appreciate your sequencer..simple and very nice sequencer...hope to have the PCBs soon.... nanners nanners love love


J3RK

Thanks!

Ok... so...

I've added individual gate outputs with switches. They are short pulse. (not quite trigger sized, but I'd say 25% pulse-width or so, in order to create completely discrete steps.

There is also now an internal clock. There is a switch for internal and external. However, due to the comparator on the clock input, one could probably run and external and internal in at the same time. I'll have to give this a try.

I've tuned the logic a bit as well.

Now I just need to try laying out a reasonably sized board that will contain all of this. I had to add a few chips to get the individual pulse outputs to work the way they should. If it gets a bit too big, I could either axe the individual gate outs, or the clock if necessary. Or go a bit bigger. I want to maintain Euro-happiness though. w00t


inlifeindeath

in for 1 board


knob_alchemist

J3RK wrote:
I've added individual gate outputs with switches. They are short pulse. (not quite trigger sized, but I'd say 25% pulse-width or so, in order to create completely discrete steps.

There is also now an internal clock.

I've tuned the logic a bit as well.


Nice features... thumbs up Guinness ftw!
It's maybe possible to add switches for turning on/off the steps??


J3RK

knob_alchemist wrote:
J3RK wrote:
I've added individual gate outputs with switches. They are short pulse. (not quite trigger sized, but I'd say 25% pulse-width or so, in order to create completely discrete steps.

There is also now an internal clock.

I've tuned the logic a bit as well.


Nice features... thumbs up Guinness ftw!
It's maybe possible to add switches for turning on/off the steps??


Already done. screaming goo yo

Starting the board layout in just a bit. I'm thinking I can get it crammed on something reasonable. Mr. Green


knob_alchemist

love love love love


wavehead

all of these additions sound completely worth it. it's not like 4x3 is really a problem anyone can't get around, but the choice of step switches/gate outs is better to have than not.

a slew would be really cool to have on it (even if pretty much everyone has this capability already outside of the sequencer).
one of the best uses of the flopseq seems to be fast clock rates for more of an LFO style use over traditional sequencing.
especially if you have switches to skip steps, slew would be great for different slope lengths between gaps.


cleaninglady

Great News , Dustin !! Putting my hand up for an updated PCB. SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!

Direct shipping from you is preferred if you have time.


djangosfire

J3RK wrote:
knob_alchemist wrote:
J3RK wrote:
I've added individual gate outputs with switches. They are short pulse. (not quite trigger sized, but I'd say 25% pulse-width or so, in order to create completely discrete steps.

There is also now an internal clock.

I've tuned the logic a bit as well.


Nice features... thumbs up Guinness ftw!
It's maybe possible to add switches for turning on/off the steps??


Already done. screaming goo yo

Starting the board layout in just a bit. I'm thinking I can get it crammed on something reasonable. Mr. Green


These updates are amazing nanners

Very excited about this!!!

Please count me in for at least 5x 8_)


makers

Count me in for one pcb.


Paradigm X

Yush, at least 1, if not two please!

This is fun!


jooks

Yes! At least two for me Rockin' Banana!


wavehead

2 for me (forgot to mention while feature creepin)


J3RK

Thought I'd quickly check in. I'm still working on the board layout. It has grown to 4x4, and is still tighter than I'd like. I'm not sure if I should cull some things, keep working within this space, or what. I'll keep poking at it a bit, and see what happens. I may be able to rework the logic a bit to reduce the chip count by a couple, but will have to think about that a bit. Anyway, it's still being actively worked on. hmmm..... Mr. Green


makers

I've been able to get some interesting wave forms by clocking my FlopSeq at audio rate. Would it be possible to have a faster top clock speed in the new version?


J3RK

Actually, I've found that if I clock it with a narrower pulse it will go much faster. I could possibly do a gate to trigger circuit or something of the sort to do this. Or just try clocking with a VCO at a narrow pulse width. I've got some demos of something similar. I can post links later.


makers

J3RK wrote:
Or just try clocking with a VCO at a narrow pulse width.


Thanks for the tip! I'll try this tomorrow with my Mirror Core PWM output.


fluxmonkey

2 for me, plz. i've not yet built my RSFC version of this... so far, sounds like i'll be able to adapt that panel to incorporate the new features, but waiting for the final design to confirm.


J3RK

Getting close now. Just need to route traces, now that I have components placed.

Here is some audio that uses the FlopSeq as a waveshaper more or less. I'm mixing V/Oct signals from the Flop, and a step sequencer in a controller I have. Every so often, you'll hear the FlopSeq speed up into audio ranges. Once there, turning the knobs will change the waveshape.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/drj3rk/newfunction[/s]


J3RK

The board is ready for prototyping. I'll be ordering these today or tomorrow, and should have them back in about a week to a week and a half or so.

The new board is 5"x4". This is bigger than before, and in Euro will require a wider panel. However, with all the gate switches, clock control, etc. now the panel may need about that much space anyway.

To take advantage of that space more, I've made it possible to easily co-mount the new COMPUTE board, and they both have thru-power connectors that line up for easy stacking.

I'll try to run the COMPUTE board shortly after the UltraFLOP-08. w00t

I'll post back soon with more details after the proto build.

This is fun!


makers

w00t


ws9848

I'll get 2 boards. if anyone is keeping track


valis

Hey Dustin,

Check your Msgs regarding that flop board from before..


batchas

I realize that I misunderstood the post abount rotary switch, overflying the thread. I thought it was setting the number of steps.

J3RK wrote:
There is not however, a way to change the number of steps. (that I'm currently aware of anyway)

Now I know it doesn't.

But I see reset pins on the CD4013...
I was wondering if anybody at this stage of the project did find a way to reset the seq at any wished step, having a rotary switch with 8 pos for instance to define at which point the seq would reset/loop: don't we know at which step the seq currently is at a given moment via CD4051BC (or CD4028/29?)?


J3RK

batchas wrote:
I realize that I misunderstood the post abount rotary switch, overflying the thread. I thought it was setting the number of steps.

J3RK wrote:
There is not however, a way to change the number of steps. (that I'm currently aware of anyway)

Now I know it doesn't.

But I see reset pins on the CD4013...
I was wondering if anybody at this stage of the project did find a way to reset the seq at any wished step, having a rotary switch with 8 pos for instance to define at which point the seq would reset/loop: don't we know at which step the seq currently is at a given moment via CD4051BC (or CD4028/29?)?


Interesting idea. I hadn't really thought of taking one of the pulses from there and then resetting the counters. The problem is, the counters get preloaded with data depending on the position of the direction switch. I'll have to think about how this could be done without changing that data.


J3RK

The prototypes for the new version arrived this morning. I'll be building one tonight, and will post some news shortly after I get it up and running.


makers

w00t


J3RK



Just soldering and MTAing some pots to test with. w00t


Microscopial

I'm in for two boards please my friend


J3RK

Ran into a small issue, but hope to have it resolved shortly. It's odd actually. The positive rail pulses between 14.5V and 15V with the internal clock pulses. I'm thinking I have a bad trace or component, as I've checked just about everything. I'm building a second test board without the clock to double check the rest of the circuit, then will add the clock in again. I've used the clock circuit in several other projects, and just block-copied it out into the schematic for this, so there shouldn't be a board issue. (I may have a bad 4046 or something like that.) Anyway, once this little item is sorted, these are ready to go. They work perfectly other than this issue, and the individual gate outputs look good.

More soon!


Paradigm X

Ultraflop!

Mr. Green


ringstone

I'll go a couple of PCBs if there's a possibility of a Euro panel being done.

Cheers
Blair


J3RK

A panel for it is in the "Clarke Queue TM" Mr. Green w00t screaming goo yo SlayerBadger! I haven't gotten a definitive IO list over to him yet, but will get this going as soon as I've worked out this last bug. These will be available from Synthcube. I will also have a little stack of bare PCBs for custom projects and other oddments. Mr. Green


J3RK

Got this thing figured out more or less now. The bug is worked out, but it's brought a few other possible optimizations to mind in the process. Once again, I'd like to thank Dave Brown for the tip!

I'll wrap up the value changes tomorrow, and start assembling some build docs, BOMs, IO lists, etc.

As soon as Clarke and Synthcube have some time on their hands Mr. Green we can get this going.

I'm still not sure if this should be separate, or combined with Compute. The two boards can co-mount and even have common thru-power headers, and there would certainly be enough room on a panel to add the IO. On the other hand... seriously, i just don't get it

Anyway, the options are there, and this is more or less done now. w00t This is fun! screaming goo yo


J3RK

Just thought of another thing. Well actually I've been patching it up for a while with separate modules... Anyway, I might be able to squeeze a little integrator/slew on the board that the output could be patched through (or maybe switched,) to give the waveshaping aspects more flexibility, and it could also be a rudimentary version of all the multi-stage sequenvelope things out there. Not as fancy as Mr. Verbos' new one, or Grant's Anti-Env, but along those lines at least. I've found it useful and fun to patch this up on occasion.

It would be cool to figure out how to do a one (well 8 really) shot, where it would play through all of the steps after a trigger, and then stop after the last step. Then it really would be a flexible sequenvelope. Hmm... more to think about. Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green


FrankV

All very interesting indeed! I'd be keen on picking up one of these. In some ways, you've hit many of the things I thought I'd try to add to the old Flop-Seq (but never got around to actually doing with complete success)... hihi

Frank


knob_alchemist

News about the new run?


knob_alchemist

news???? pbear :(


J3RK

It's finalized. However, I can't decide whether to do a run of boards privately, or wait until Iget panel specs to Clarke and do a Synthcube run instead. I have a touch of extra time right now, but I also have to look at it realistically. I'm pretty slow when it comes to packing and shipping, which leads to (why is there no banana smiley shaking his fist?) Mr. Green


cleaninglady

Private run ! thumbs up


oberkorn

I'm in for 2 or 3 boards if you do another run


ws9848

good to hear it's all finalized and either way I'll get a couple of these


Entrainer

J3RK wrote:
(why is there no banana smiley shaking his fist?)





303monkey

will these fit behind RSFC's panel?


batchas

J3RK wrote:
Code:
2    R9,R19              100

100R?


J3RK

Indeed, 100R. I try to keep those consistent, but occasionally miss them. If it has nothing after it, it's definitely ohms not K or M. Sorry about that!


J3RK

303monkey wrote:
will these fit behind RSFC's panel?


I assume you mean the newer ones. They are 4"x5" so I assume so. His panel is fairly wide if I remember correctly? I'm sure it would fit vertically as well if necessary.


ws9848

any updates on the new run of these?


J3RK

I'm trying to see if I can swing a small run soon without taking preorders. I tend to slip a bit on dates, so I would like to have the boards in hand before taking people's money. Things are a little tight at the moment, but this should happen fairly soon. If we can organize 4-5 people, I would be happy to get a proto run done though. Boards would be about $25 each doing this, but it's fast. The only difference would be green boards instead of blue. Otherwise, I should be able to get a small production run done in November or December I would think.


ws9848

I'd be down for 2 proto boards.


trainspotter

im down for 2 aswell


J3RK

It looks like Synthcube is ready to do a production run of PCBs, followed by possible kits and panels. I'm working out the details now.

w00t


knob_alchemist

Still interested...a kit would be also appreciated grin ... Thonk in Europe is not interested to do a kit?


J3RK

That would be up to Monobass, and I'd be completely happy to provide boards to him. Shipping shouldn't be too bad for a PCB from here though. (better from there, but still not too bad)

I've ordered the production run, and they will be to me in two weeks. I ship them to Synthcube as soon as they arrive here.

There will eventually be kits and panels available, but the boards will be available on their own to start.

I've added some small three-pad mod headers near the individual gate outputs. (one set per gate) This is to allow people to do a possible diode OR sort of thing to make a combined switchable gate if they like. I haven't tried this myself, and it was suggested by FrankV a while back. The pads are there if anyone wants to try, but completely optional.

The other option is that I've added extra mounting holes on the board, and thru-power header, so a little sub-board expander with an 8 input OR setup (I think there is a CMOS 4000 chip that will work here) to do the same thing.

The new board (the one going into production now) also has a Euro power header overlayed on the usual MOTM style MTA header. I think it's about as user friendly and flexible as it can get with this design at this point, and has been heavily tested now.

I'll be posting an up to date BOM here, and sending it to Synthcube, along with a wiring diagram, and any notes that I can think of. It's a very straight-forward build in its default form.

I'll post here when the build docs are ready, which should be another day or two.

w00t


synthcube

We're excited to be supporting these with j3rk and plan a run of panels, kits and a few assembled modules as well.


lintfresh

Awesome to hear Synthcube.

I will be in for a pcb/panel when they're available.


iopop

I compared the schematics for this one against the two mfos sequencers.

Would there be any problems if removing R1-R8 and use only one resistor? Only one led is lit each time.

Or one could do like Jarno and change position of the led and resistor.


J3RK

That should be possible actually. (though I haven't tested it) Not only that, but 470R is actually a little low in many cases (depending on LED.) You could likely use a single 1K or 2.2K instead.


CJ Miller

Hey, Dustin - I haven't been following all of this over the months, but I am curious. When you made the initial run of FlopSeq boards, you said that your initial idea was more involved, and that the PCBs were a more stripped-down, basic version. With possibly an expander happening later. How do your current FlopSeq activities relate to this? Are these more like your original concept, or has the project gone in other directions since then?


J3RK

The new Ultraflop version is more or less what I originally had in mind. Internal and external clocking was the main thing. The individual gate outputs were added more on a recommendation from users than the original idea.

I've also thought about an 8 stage shift register that could be co-clocked with it, but other than laying out a schematic and simulation for that, haven't really gone any further with it.

Yet another thing was to have a sub-sequence of sorts for each main step, but obviously doing something like that using CMOS chips like I am now would get a little out of hand PCB-wise. (not to mention panel... Dead Banana ) That might be something that I'll try when I start working with FPGA/CPLD in the nearish future though.

I think the current version is more or less the way this one will stay. (though I'd love to do new sequencer designs in the future) Something big and complex without the need for menus, weird button combinations, paging back and forth, etc. The only problem there is how expensive all of the panel space and controls gets...


iopop

J3RK wrote:
That should be possible actually. (though I haven't tested it) Not only that, but 470R is actually a little low in many cases (depending on LED.) You could likely use a single 1K or 2.2K instead.

Thank you for sanity checking. Will surely use a 1k or 1.8k instead. There's still some PCBs a head of this one - but I'll report back when done.


J3RK

BTW: The Ultraflop boards have just been (finally) shipped out today to Synthcube. I've sent the build docs over, and if I'm not mistaken, Clarke is working on a Euro panel right now.

w00t


synthcube

AVAILABLE

the PCBs are now in stock:
http://synthcube.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2 78

the clarke68 euro panel is being designed and is expected to be available in January

Full kits will also be available around that time

thanks again j3rk for a great module!


J3RK

I'm just double checking the BOM for this now, and will have it to Synthcube and posted here shortly. (in the next 30 minutes or so)


ws9848

where can I get the new BOM for this?


J3RK

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=99252

w00t

Other build docs to be added to that thread shortly.


ws9848

oh thanks!


batchas

batchas wrote:
I realize that I misunderstood the post about rotary switch, overflying the thread. I thought it was setting the number of steps.

J3RK wrote:
There is not however, a way to change the number of steps. (that I'm currently aware of anyway)

Now I know it doesn't.

But I see reset pins on the CD4013...
I was wondering if anybody at this stage of the project did find a way to reset the seq at any wished step, having a rotary switch with 8 pos for instance to define at which point the seq would reset/loop: don't we know at which step the seq currently is at a given moment via CD4051BC (or CD4028/29?)?


I built the flopSeq (first run as mentioned here in the quoted text). I'll make a panel but first I wanted to tell you that I did found a way to set the number of steps and reset via rotary switch and to share the solution with you.
Now I need to find the rotary switch with 8 pos and add it to the circuit.

I reset the seq via pin1 of CD4029:


because it reacts better than using reset-pin4 or reset-pin10 of 4013:
.

There is a small issue which I (we) will have to live with at the moment and, if I (we?) don't find a solution, I'll mount last step as step1 on the panel as the seq restarts from step8 instead of step1. Which also means that the minimum number of steps in a loop is 2 (shorter seq possible: 2 steps).

The issue explained:
Reset on = sequence
led1/step1 = 8-1
led2/step2 = 8-1
led3/step3 = 8-1-2
led4/step4 = 8-1-2-3
led5/step5 = 8-1-2-3-
led6/tep6 = 8-1-2-3-4-5
led7/step7 = 8-1-2-3-4-5-6
led8/step8 = 8-1-2-3-4-5-6-7

How I will do when I get the rotary switch:
I'll take the + pole of each LED (the pulse which I'll also use for single switchable pulse out) and connect it to one input of a 1 pole / 8 pos rotary switch (let's pretend SW1 has 8 switchable inputs, 8 pos, not only 1 as shown on my schema).
LED8 to switch input/pos1, LED1 to switch input/pos2 and so on and the switch single pole (the output, the right side of SW1 on my schema) to the circuit I show here.

I tried first with pulse direct to pin1 combined with pin1 to resistor to ground, but it didn't work. So I decided to use a 2N3904 as switch.
Maybe you'll find another way and a solution for the reset to step1 issue.


J3RK

Nice work! w00t


batchas

J3RK wrote:
Nice work! w00t

Thanx!
I had a lot of fun testing the logic chips. Infinite possibilities!

Using pin2 of CD4029 the same way like described for pin1 to restart the seq at a desired point would make the seq jump the pulsed step. You could imagine 8 on/off switches to simply activate/deactivate single pulses as we saw earlier in the thread (picked from the LED + poles), but also have 8 more on/off switches to jump steps via pin2...
Not sure we can simply split 1 signal (the LED signal) to 3 different destinations (reset, activate/deactivate single pulses, jump steps) witohut other add on the circuit, but I thought I'd share the info here too.



batchas

A question:
Too complicated to explain why, but I'll share when the project is finished.
If I want to double the number of LEDs (not doubling the number of steps, only LED 1 having a copy, LED 2 as well and so on), is it OK if I just wire each new LED to its double? If I do so and leave all LED resistors unchanged, I only have all LEDs with less (half?) luminosity than before, is that right?
And if I'd want the same luminosity, I'd half the resistance on the LED's resistor, right?


iopop

Finished mine, just wanted to confirm that I used only 1 1k8 resistor as per the mfos schematics and it turned out working.

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