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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Chaos Patch
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author Chaos Patch
frijitz
Hi --

Earlier this year I built up an electronic implementation of what's called "travelling-wave chaos", representing the interaction of a travelling wave with a damped resonator. (Think of something like putting a tuning fork in front of a loudspeaker.) Writeup at:
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/Chaos/ch_cir5_twc.htm

Reviewing what I had been doing I realized that the damped resonator circuit was simply a state-variable bandpass filter, come at from another direction! So I tried getting the same results using the SV filter in my modulator. It worked fine, and gave even more variety than before when the other outputs (LP, HP, even N) were used.

So anyone who wants to experiment with some really interesting chaotic signals, you just patch the output of a through-zero linear FM VCO (Teezer, ZO, etc.) to a filter input and one of the filter outputs back into the VCO's linear FM input. (Remember to DC couple if you want LFO-rate frequencies.) You can take the output signals from any of the patch's outputs (filter or VCO).

I also got interesting results using a 4-pole resonant filter and using several cascaded sections of my cyclic hyperchaos system.

Do try!

grin

Ian
arrmcbain
Cool idea. I was able to achieve chaotic effects using a Blacet VCO (the fm input of which is switchable linear/exp and ac/dc) and a Bi-N-Tic filter with the resonance/damping set at maximum. The bandwidth affected the frequency of the chaotic cycling.
frijitz
arrmcbain wrote:
Cool idea. I was able to achieve chaotic effects using a Blacet VCO (the fm input of which is switchable linear/exp and ac/dc) and a Bi-N-Tic filter with the resonance/damping set at maximum. The bandwidth affected the frequency of the chaotic cycling.

Thanks for the note. I haven't tried using it with a non-thru zero VCO. (Mine don't have much modulation depth.) I imagine if you overmodulate a bit you can get some pretty wild effects.

You're right, the resonance (damping) is an important parameter. Also important are the drive levels for each device and, of course, the relative frequencies and the filter mode.

grin

Ian
RealDudes
I've been doing this with my Doepfer A110 and A106-5 bandpass back into CV2 input on the 110
makes crazy sound, sometimes silence, depending on the CV2 input attenuator
numan7
excellent idea... i think i'll try this patch with hertz donut as thru-zero lin fm vco + a few sfv modules i have in house... thumbs up

cheers,
7n7
obscurerobot
frijitz wrote:
Hi --

Earlier this year I built up an electronic implementation of what's called "travelling-wave chaos", representing the interaction of a travelling wave with a damped resonator. (Think of something like putting a tuning fork in front of a loudspeaker.) Writeup at:
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/Chaos/ch_cir5_twc.htm



Wow, great stuff Ian!

Messing around with the visual side of chaos math and fractals got me in to software development back in the early '90s. More recently, I've been thinking about moving away from discrete synthesizers into more DIY and modular soundmaking devices. At the same time, I've been meaning to look into how to incorporate chaos beyond simple randomization into my music and sound design. You've addressed both points in your excellent writeups!


Have you considered setting up a wiki or blog for your synth experiments? I'm not sure how well comcast's personal hosting will hold up as people discover your stuff.
frijitz
obscurerobot wrote:
Have you considered setting up a wiki or blog for your synth experiments? I'm not sure how well comcast's personal hosting will hold up as people discover your stuff.

hihi Well, I've been developing chaos circuits and selling boards for over five years now, and no problems with bandwidth so far. No more than a few score of people worldwide interested in this stuff.

Thanks for your interest!

grin

Ian
obscurerobot
frijitz wrote:
hihi Well, I've been developing chaos circuits and selling boards for over five years now, and no problems with bandwidth so far. No more than a few score of people worldwide interested in this stuff.

Thanks for your interest!

grin

Ian


I didn't see anything about boards for sale - are you OK with people using your schematics for personal experimentation & synth building?

Glad to hear that your hosting is holding up!
andrewF
obscurerobot wrote:


I didn't see anything about boards for sale - are you OK with people using your schematics for personal experimentation & synth building?



Ian's stuff can be found at Bridechamber and some modules from Elby

I have built several of Ian's circuits over the years using the schematics he has posted, he has always been helpful and encouraging
love
obscurerobot
andrewF wrote:
obscurerobot wrote:


I didn't see anything about boards for sale - are you OK with people using your schematics for personal experimentation & synth building?



Ian's stuff can be found at Bridechamber and some modules from Elby

I have built several of Ian's circuits over the years using the schematics he has posted, he has always been helpful and encouraging
love


ok, cool!

</noob>
andrewF
obscurerobot wrote:


ok, cool!

</noob>


noobs are good thumbs up
we all were noobs at some point
i think you are right tho, Ian's page doesn't say much (anything?) about where to buy boards
kindredlost
+1 on Ian's chaos circuit ideas. applause thumbs up

This latest is another example of his tendency to think outside the lines. Now I just need to finally get the Teezer Thru-Zero from The Bridechamber. hyper
Gripp
Great patch tip, thanks! Guinness ftw!

Works like a charm with ZO+Doepfer A107. Lots of possibilities. Really liking the LFOish region.

To get even lower frequency wise, could you somehow use a slew limiter as a filter? How do you get something like a resonance control there? Feedback?
I don't think any of my filters are DC coupled, but they reach pretty low.

Wait a minute! QMMG is DC coupled isn't it? d'oh!
Runs off to wiggle some more.
frijitz
Gripp wrote:
Works like a charm with ZO+Doepfer A107. Lots of possibilities. Really liking the LFOish region.

To get even lower frequency wise, could you somehow use a slew limiter as a filter? How do you get something like a resonance control there? Feedback?
I don't think any of my filters are DC coupled, but they reach pretty low.

Wait a minute! QMMG is DC coupled isn't it? d'oh!
Runs off to wiggle some more.

Good point. How low do most filters go? I only use my own stuff, so I have no idea. A slew limiter probably won't work since it is a 1st order integrator and you need at least 2nd order.

A lot of the time I just work with discrete levels. You can take an audio chaotic signal and sample at a low rate. Maybe then use a slew limiter to get continuous variation?

grin

Ian
obscurerobot
frijitz wrote:
Do try!

grin

Ian


Here's something I cooked up in Reaktor this morning:



To download click and then click the "view raw" link.

Even with this simple ensemble, there is a lot of sonic space to explore. Possible enhancements include:

  • Allow waveforms other than Sine
  • Adding fine-tuning options for Oc Pitch, Filter Freq and Filter Res
  • Allow filter modes other than lowpass
  • Sop the XY Scope from clipping
  • Reimplement in Pure Data
frijitz
obscurerobot wrote:
Here's something I cooked up in Reaktor this morning:

8_) You might want to add a control for the filter input level.

grin

Ian
obscurerobot
frijitz wrote:
obscurerobot wrote:
Here's something I cooked up in Reaktor this morning:

8_) You might want to add a control for the filter input level.

grin

Ian


I added a VCA between the oscillator and filter. I also changed the background to a tiled graph paper image. The new VCA is a nice enhancement, thanks for the suggestion. All of the updates have been pushed up to github, so feel free to pull them down and play.
kindredlost
I had some hours of fun last night with a patch incorporating a variation of this feedback loop.

It was something like this..

vco1 sawtooth->mixer
vco2 ramp -> mixer
mixer -> Expo FM vco3
vco3 sinewave -> HPF -> Linear FM on vco3

I made a video of the waveforms to the scope. It was rather chaotic but always fell back into a pure sinewave periodically due to the way the two modifier vco's ran in an out of sync. All vco's are tuned very close for slow inter-beating and in the 16' range. Loads of low frequency noise from this patch.

It's interesting to hear the filter feedback chaos on top of a fairly complex moving vco patch. The properties of the patch resemble a barber-pole phasing with what sounds like two pitches moving different directions (UP/DOWN). I also have a video of the raw vco's to compare.

I'll post the video(s) later.

Great fun Ian!
rdonker
SGI came up with a great way of creating chaos by pointing a video camera at a Lava Lamp. hmm might make a great cv generating module.


frijitz wrote:
Hi --

Earlier this year I built up an electronic implementation of what's called "travelling-wave chaos", representing the interaction of a travelling wave with a damped resonator. (Think of something like putting a tuning fork in front of a loudspeaker.) Writeup at:
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/Chaos/ch_cir5_twc.htm

Reviewing what I had been doing I realized that the damped resonator circuit was simply a state-variable bandpass filter, come at from another direction! So I tried getting the same results using the SV filter in my modulator. It worked fine, and gave even more variety than before when the other outputs (LP, HP, even N) were used.

So anyone who wants to experiment with some really interesting chaotic signals, you just patch the output of a through-zero linear FM VCO (Teezer, ZO, etc.) to a filter input and one of the filter outputs back into the VCO's linear FM input. (Remember to DC couple if you want LFO-rate frequencies.) You can take the output signals from any of the patch's outputs (filter or VCO).

I also got interesting results using a 4-pole resonant filter and using several cascaded sections of my cyclic hyperchaos system.

Do try!

grin

Ian
frijitz
rdonker wrote:
SGI came up with a great way of creating chaos by pointing a video camera at a Lava Lamp. hmm might make a great cv generating module.

Can you vary the individual parameters of the system?

lol

Ian
obscurerobot
Another update to my Reaktor patch. This version fixes some routing bugs - previously the main output always came from the lowpass out of the filter, regardless of which filter type was set. Likewise, the main scope came from lowpass out. The XY scope input came from the lowpass output and the Sine output. Now the scopes and the main output correctly follow the selections made at the bottom.

I feel like the FM fine tune slider isn't as useful as I had originally hoped, and it may be more useful to have fine tune sliders (or knobs) for oscillator and filter pitch.



I've also started building a Pure Data version. The biggest problem I'm having with PureData is that [Scope~] likes to lock up in XY mode, so I'm just using a waveform graph.

ringstone
frijitz wrote:

Well, I've been developing chaos circuits and selling boards for over five years now, and no problems with bandwidth so far. No more than a few score of people worldwide interested in this stuff.


Now I feel special... I usually end up at your site at least once every week or two... lol It's a great resource...

Cheers
Blair
luketeaford
I was reading about a version of this patch on Rob Hordijk's Nord Modular blog last night and thought I'd give it a go. I am not using thru zero oscillators and it works fine.

Mine is, I guess, a slight riff on this because I am running the chaos signal through a S&H/ASR before patching out. Sounds great making variations on high hats in addition to obvious weird little pitch sequences.

Demos:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlCKsKlAg7W/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlCF2ztA-uk/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlCD_rHAy1d/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlCA03PA5GK/
Dcramer
Holy necropost! w00t

I’ve become a huge fan of Fritz and his chaos modules.

Here’s my take on a large patch entirely controlled via three interlinked Fritz chaos modules:
(Real dead guy too! woah )

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=191514&highlight=
AW198
I don't experiment with feedback chaos enough, this looks really intriguing.
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