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Plague Bearer low-output woes
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Flight of Harmony  
Author Plague Bearer low-output woes
Pockets McCoy
So, the mailman brought me a Plague Bearer today, which is cause for all sorts of excitement, but I'm mildly concerned there may be a problem with it, though I've never used one, so I'm not sure. Basically, all the levels in the module seem to be ratcheted WAY down...after reading a bit about it and listening to the samples around here, I'm realizing that mine's not quite behaving right. Anything I run into it suffers from a significant volume drop (as in, I can mult an oscillator to the PB and a mixer, and the PB into another channel of the mixer, and unless the PB's run through a fully-cranked VCA first, it gets hopelessly drowned out by the original oscillator), and the gain control seems to be...not so high-gain. Also, the High and Low controls don't seem to produce terribly dramatic changes. I have noticed that if the input level is fully clockwise, the output still seems to be slightly quieter than what I'm putting into it and the gain, high, and low controls don't have any effect on anything, though they start to come back into play if I turn the input level back down. I have been able to get it to oscillate, but unlike the typical volume spike of an oscillating filter, it's still ridiculously quiet, especially for something that's apparently threatened to obliterate speakers for some.

Reading the manual, I noticed that there's the option of removing a resistor and replacing it with a pot as an output level control, but I don't want to do anything rash and go tearing into a brand-new module, not to mention the fact that SMT components scare the piss out of me and my unsteady hands. Is that something worth considering trying, or is this just a case of hey-jackass-don't-noodle-around-in-there-just-send-it-back-for-a-repai r?

Strange little aside, but, I know this isn't the issue because the PB's an SMT board and there's no empty socket anywhere, but I was moving a few things around to make room for the Plague Bearer and it seems that there's been some crazy oscillator sex going on behind my back, because one of my Model 15's gave birth to a little LM351 IC when I took it off the rails, which is a total mystery to me, because there are no empty sockets on any of my modules and everything (aside from the Plague Bearer) is working fine, but I don't know if maybe it was a sign from the great synth-governing deity in the sky that something was destined to go wrong gain-wise in some module. help help
Kent
Hey Pockets,

Let's take it one step at a time. I've created a comparison audio file for you. If your PB can't get this far, then there may well be an issue with it.

Here's the setup:

Sawtooth wave to Mult
Mult to Passive Mixer input (no gain controls) and...
Mult also to Plague Bearer Input
PB Output to Passive Mixer input #2

Settings on PB:

High= 9 o'clock
Low= 9 o'clock
Gain= 3 o'clock
Input= 1:30 ish.

Now, your PB may vary slightly, but you can hear my results. Let a brutha know how you fair. And remember, let's keep it evil... and sexy... but mostly evil. Flamey
flight
Pockets McCoy wrote:
Anything I run into it suffers from a significant volume drop (as in, I can mult an oscillator to the PB and a mixer, and the PB into another channel of the mixer, and unless the PB's run through a fully-cranked VCA first, it gets hopelessly drowned out by the original oscillator), and the gain control seems to be...not so high-gain.


Yup, something is definitely screwy.

Quote:
Also, the High and Low controls don't seem to produce terribly dramatic changes. I have noticed that if the input level is fully clockwise, the output still seems to be slightly quieter than what I'm putting into it and the gain, high, and low controls don't have any effect on anything, though they start to come back into play if I turn the input level back down.


This is typical of the PB. The input is easily overdriven with a full-strength (±5V) input, and all it will do is clip the signal. The PB is most versatile with lower-level signals. That being said, a PB should scream like a whiny bitch - and a loud one at that - if the input is cranked all the way, leaving you with no doubt that it is overdriven.
Try attenuating the input before it reaches the PB. The self-oscillation is not restricted to the audio range, so it can be pushed into apparent silence.

Quote:
I have been able to get it to oscillate, but unlike the typical volume spike of an oscillating filter, it's still ridiculously quiet, especially for something that's apparently threatened to obliterate speakers for some.


It won't spike if you approach the oscillation point slowly. It will spike if you go a bit past that point and, again, there will be no question about it.

Quote:

Reading the manual, I noticed that there's the option of removing a resistor and replacing it with a pot as an output level control, but I don't want to do anything rash and go tearing into a brand-new module, not to mention the fact that SMT components scare the piss out of me and my unsteady hands. Is that something worth considering trying, or is this just a case of hey-jackass-don't-noodle-around-in-there-just-send-it-back-for-a-repai r?


That's up to you, but it should not be necessary just to hear the output at all.

I put the resistor in question close to the edge of the PCB for easy access though. The best way to remove an SMT resistor is to use some fine-gauge desoldering braid and a fine-tip iron to remove the solder then, using just the iron, against one end of the resistor, heat one pad while gently prying up on the resistor. Lift it just a tiny bit, then hold the resistor with some tweezers and heat the other pad while gently lifting upwards on the middle of the chip.

Quote:

Strange little aside, but, I know this isn't the issue because the PB's an SMT board and there's no empty socket anywhere, but I was moving a few things around to make room for the Plague Bearer and it seems that there's been some crazy oscillator sex going on behind my back, because one of my Model 15's gave birth to a little LM351 IC when I took it off the rails, which is a total mystery to me, because there are no empty sockets on any of my modules and everything (aside from the Plague Bearer) is working fine, but I don't know if maybe it was a sign from the great synth-governing deity in the sky that something was destined to go wrong gain-wise in some module. help help


Damn, a synth that spontaneously generates ICs? eek!
Pockets McCoy
Well, I put it through its paces tonight to confirm whether or not there's something screwy going on, and I've concluded that there is. I set up Kent's patch, and the result was the wrong kind of grim. hihi

flight wrote:
This is typical of the PB. The input is easily overdriven with a full-strength (±5V) input, and all it will do is clip the signal. The PB is most versatile with lower-level signals. That being said, a PB should scream like a whiny bitch - and a loud one at that - if the input is cranked all the way, leaving you with no doubt that it is overdriven.
Try attenuating the input before it reaches the PB. The self-oscillation is not restricted to the audio range, so it can be pushed into apparent silence.


This one sounds more like a meek schoolgirl with low self-esteem... d'oh!

Anyhow, in this situation should I send it to you for fixin' or should I get in touch with Shawn at Analogue Haven and see about exchanging it for another one? And thanks a ton for the tech support/lowdown on the module/SMT-wrangling advice/being the purveyor of the Plauge.

And also, (you'd think I was giving an acceptance speech for my Oscar or something, but...) many, many, many very belated and clustered thanks to KENT, because you're always swooping in like a superhero to very thoroughly answer all of the many questions I've asked in my career as a Wiggler. If I ever somehow find myself to be King of any sort of well-funded kingdom, rest assured I'll pay you exorbitant amounts of money to hang around the palace and be the royal encyclopedia. And there will be an encyclopedia-themed superhero get-up involved. screaming goo yo

(And Flight, you'll of course be paid exorbitant amounts of money to be the Royal Plague Spreader, because every good kingdom needs a good plague to roll through every now and then.)

And yes, I am a lunatic, and this is what happens to me when I sleep 3 out of every 48 hours... help

To bed, to bed, awaaaaayyyyyyyyyy!!! *swoosh*
flight
Pockets McCoy wrote:
Well, I put it through its paces tonight to confirm whether or not there's something screwy going on, and I've concluded that there is. I set up Kent's patch, and the result was the wrong kind of grim. hihi

Sigh...
Quote:

...
This one sounds more like a meek schoolgirl with low self-esteem... d'oh!

lol!
Quote:

Anyhow, in this situation should I send it to you for fixin' or should I get in touch with Shawn at Analogue Haven and see about exchanging it for another one? And thanks a ton for the tech support/lowdown on the module/SMT-wrangling advice/being the purveyor of the Plauge.


Well, I'll get it one way or another. Might as well just send it to me for exchange, I'll set one aside to ship to you as soon as I get yours. Either email or PM me for the address.

Support: You are very welcome! Direct communication is the best way to solve problems. It also gives me a chance to see how people use their gear and a better picture of a failure scenario, which I can then incorporate into the pre-shipping test procedure.

Quote:

And also, (you'd think I was giving an acceptance speech for my Oscar or something, but...) many, many, many very belated and clustered thanks to KENT, because you're always swooping in like a superhero to very thoroughly answer all of the many questions I've asked in my career as a Wiggler. If I ever somehow find myself to be King of any sort of well-funded kingdom, rest assured I'll pay you exorbitant amounts of money to hang around the palace and be the royal encyclopedia. And there will be an encyclopedia-themed superhero get-up involved. screaming goo yo

(And Flight, you'll of course be paid exorbitant amounts of money to be the Royal Plague Spreader, because every good kingdom needs a good plague to roll through every now and then.)


Many, many props to Kent! He does a lot for the community.

(There's nothing like a good plague to build character eh?)

Quote:

And yes, I am a lunatic, and this is what happens to me when I sleep 3 out of every 48 hours... help

To bed, to bed, awaaaaayyyyyyyyyy!!! *swoosh*


Damn man, you sound like me.
flight
I received a few more low-output inquiries, so I took some time to check deeper into this.
Yup, my bad. The r3.1 has a maximum output of about ±2V. I apologize. d'oh!

This definitely falls under manufacturing defect, so I'll boost the output of your r3.1 at no cost.

Please email me for the shipping address & instructions.

This covers all r3.1 - modules & barebones.
parasitk
Chicken fowl!
flight
lol!

Oh no he di'int!
Kent
Hey guys,

Thanks for the accolades! For some reason, this thread never popped up on to the list of "posts since my last visit". Sorry about the lack of recognition in due time.

Pockets, will my super-suit be kinda flashy? I hope so.
Pockets McCoy
Come on, what kind of self-respecting super-suit isn't all sorts of flashy? w00t

Oh, and Flight, I've got everything boxed up, so I'll send it tomorrow. And there's a really weird story enclosed, and my handwriting's terrible, and I can translate it if need be, but if nothing else, hopefully you'll at least get a kick out of the illustrations. And see http://www.idatedapyramid.com for 280 pages of putting the story I sent you into context...sorry about that. d'oh!
modularplanner
Does this mean the ones from Schneiders are at fault too? If so is there a simple self fix (resister change) or is it too "fiddly"?
a100user
Good question as mine is due to arrive on Wednesday!

Quote:
Does this mean the ones from Schneiders are at fault too? If so is there a simple self fix (resister change) or is it too "fiddly"?
Veqtor
So if I order a barebone from you, it will be prefixed right?
flight
modularplanner wrote:
Does this mean the ones from Schneiders are at fault too? If so is there a simple self fix (resister change) or is it too "fiddly"?


It is a simple self fix but I am express-shipping replacement PCBs to Schneiders today. It will extend your wait a day or two, but they'll be fixed.

I have only received 4 complaints out of the over 25 that I know are in customers' hands, so it seems to be largely dependent upon your system setup, but I am replacing the PCBs of all the units still in stock at distributors.
flight
Veqtor wrote:
So if I order a barebone from you, it will be prefixed right?


Yup!
a100user
Hi Flight,

Well mines in transit from Germany to the UK!

If you want to let me know the fix and then I can make a judgement on if I feel capable.

thanks

David
flight
I just put up a post about it on my blog:
http://www.flightofharmony.com/words.html.
Let me know what you think!
a100user
Flight

Well I can use a soldering iron and add a resistor, although I have never worked with SMT.

I assume I can remove the relevant SMT(s) and replace with a standard resistor?

If so then that is no problem.

Thanks for the info.

David
flight
Yup, I recommend putting a trimpot in while you're in there so you can set it exactly to your specs, but a resistor is fine.

Removing SMT resistors:
Use narrow desoldering braid & remove the solder from both ends of the chip. With a fine soldering tip, heat one pad and gently pry up on the chip enough to clear the pad. Then hold the chip with some tweezers, heat the other end and lift off.
OR: use a wide iron tip to heat the whole chip until it slides off, then throw it away.
a100user
I'll do that, but I'll try it first anyway.

Thanks
modularplanner
Bit confused now, I have the rev 2.3 board from the schneiders delivery today. Should I ask them to send on to me the new board your sending to them?

Also another query before I plug it in, the cable wasnt attached and the way the green connector lines up with the board the red wire on the ribbon is on the - (minus) labelled side of the board socket, is this correct?
flight
modularplanner wrote:
Bit confused now, I have the rev 2.3 board from the schneiders delivery today. Should I ask them to send on to me the new board your sending to them?


No, you are OK. This only applies to the r3.1.

Quote:
Also another query before I plug it in, the cable wasnt attached and the way the green connector lines up with the board the red wire on the ribbon is on the - (minus) labelled side of the board socket, is this correct?

Yes - weird, but correct. Blame Doepfer. For some reason, the red stripe indicates the negative rail. hmmm.....

(Sorry for taking so long to reply, I slept in today)
bar|none
Hey flight...

>Yup, I recommend putting a trimpot in while you're in there so you can set it exactly to your specs, but a resistor is fine.

Do you happen to have a suitable trimpot part# from mouser or some other supplier?

thx.
flight
Anything with round wire leads (arranged in a straight line) and 0.1" lead spacing will do, but here's a couple:
Bourns 3362M single turn 20k (the leads in the picture are wrong, look at the data sheet)
Vishay/Sfernice T93YA multi-turn 20k
gde
today i switched the resistors on a dual PB i assembled from two barebones
i didnt have any spare trimpots so i just used a 20k (okay... two 10k's in series) powered it back up and works great. easy and quick process too
Soy Sos
I just finished the mod with a 100k trimpot. Works great and I
learned something too! The PB 3.1 sounds great, different from
the original in an interesting way. Now I have one of each in my system.
Booooyaaaa!!
flight
gde & Soy Sos: Excellent! You have no idea how stoked I am that it all worked out. smile

A minor caution: According to my 'scope, a 10k resistor sets the overall (Vout/Vin) gain to ~1 when the controls are 3/4, 3/4 3/4, 1/2 (high to input respectively). I tried to get it to 1 during normal/moderate usage, but the output can go over ±5V when: the input is cranked or driven very hot, or the filter is oscillating.
bar|none
Hey flight. Question for you. I am using the cv'd gain (front panel mod) a lot on the PB 3.1. I really like the sound the increased q and gain gives.

The thing is and we discussed this before. It works in reverse to most cvs. Meaning I need to give it a negative ADSR envelope, and furthermore I need to use my Model 14 to push the voltage more negative to get this to be optimal.

I'd really like to be able to take the model 14 out of the picture and be able to send a normal positive cv pulse (positive ADSR).

I noticed on the Polivoks that it has a really sweet bipolar +/- control on it's cv input.

Question:
Is it possible to easily reverse the response polarity, so it responds to more + instead of more -? My rudimentary electronics skills want to just reverse the leads on the plug, but it can't be that easy.
flight
Let me ponder this for a bit (I've been meaning to anyway) and I'll get back to you.

Also: I apologize to everyone for not commenting as much as normal, I've been very busy filling orders. I hope to have a chance to catch up and listen to all the samples soon.
Uncopyrightable
flight wrote:
Let me ponder this for a bit (I've been meaning to anyway) and I'll get back to you.

Also: I apologize to everyone for not commenting as much as normal, I've been very busy filling orders. I hope to have a chance to catch up and listen to all the samples soon.


*cracks his whip*

screaming goo yo
flight
razz

You Quadders just have to be patient, I'm trying to get to the frac Choices still! And the damn INMs that have been hanging since November!

So there. wink

Anyway, I looked at the PB, and there is no simple way to do an on-board mod for positive-acting gain CV. The pot is even wired backwards, so changing the CV in would make the pot act backwards, etc. And any component change would drastically affect the sound.
However, there is another way - a little work perhaps, but without damaging the board or the sound: an ancillary board, just big enough for an opamp wired as a single-supply inverter. Connect the power leads to the open power connector holes at the base of the PCB, mount the board on two standoffs in the holes on the edge of the PCB, run the CV jack to the inverter and from the inverter to the original CV input.
I'll try it out when I have a chance & maybe whip some boards up if there's enough interest.
bar|none
Ah, opamp...yeah makes sense.

It's the quad that really makes me worry about this since where to find 4 sources of negative ADSR and voltage. Maybe the quad just has the 4 opamps mounted together somewhere's.

Anyway..no whip crackin...hopefully more PB sounds this week.
flight
Excellent point, I'll do that on the quads.
bar|none
You know the funny thing about the low-output problem? I don't feel like mine is giving a low output. And I'm finding the sweet spots with the way it is currently, so I am kind of nervous to make the change. I guess the trim pot is what I'll do and if I don't like that, I'll just remove it.

This shouldn't really be called a filter though. It's more of a waveshaper, harmonics exciter, thinga-ma secret sauce gadget.

I almost always use it in conjunction with a more traditional filter now to add timbre and harmonics. Check these out. I ran noise and a triangle oscillator through the PB and then into a DMF-2 lowpass with the resonance, freq cutoff modulated by ADSRs and the woggle bug along with ADSR retriggering via same. VCA key'd off ADSRs. I also cv'd the gain on the PB but I can't remember with which one.

I don't know why, but these tones only come through when the PB is involved, it must add some freq content that the DMF keys off of. If I take the PB out of the chain, it sounds boring. I can't explain it cause I have no idea what I am doing.

http://experimentsinanalogchaos.com/banks/Church_a%2307f0000.wav
http://experimentsinanalogchaos.com/banks/Church_a%2357f0000.wav
http://experimentsinanalogchaos.com/banks/Misfit_c%2327f0000.wav
flight
Those sound good, especially the last one!

You don't need to worry that boosting the output will affect the character of the filter. The output is just a buffer and is not part of the filter circuit.

I agree about the filter/waveshaper issue, but it really just defies classification. Secret Sauce Gadget works, I like that.
It does add a LOT to a sound (depending on setting of course). It is quite interesting to watch on an oscilloscope. I wish I had a spectrum analyzer to see what happens in the frequency domain! With the right settings, you can create chorus effects, phase effcts, overtones, undertones and all kinds of weird shit.
helitron
Hi flight, finally assembled my barebone (see my hordes of chaos thread).
regarding the low output - i figured out that without any resitors (no R6 and nothing in CN2) I got the highest output level. however, I placed a 10K res to be on the save side. Now I am thinking to revert back to the no resistor solution to get the most out of my PB.
actually I have no idea what I am doing there - so, do you recommend runing the PB without any resistors in the buffer circuit?

thanks, hel
flight
Thanks for the heads up about your build, I like the look! What case is that, a Hammond?

PB: R6 is the feedback resistor that sets the output level. The formula is Vout=Vin(Rfeedback/Rinput).
Leaving Rfeedback out sets that term to infinity, which means that you are running the opamp "open loop" at maximum amplification. This is as loud as it gets! But it will also add a lot of noise and distortion, and clip the output very easily. Sounds nice and nasty, but you loose a lot of the subtle goodies. :(
It also means that your output will often be at full supply voltage (±12V), which is a lot hotter than most circuits expect.



So, I recommend 10k. 20k if you really need higher output. The best for your situation would be a trimpot so you can adjust it to your preferred flavor. wink
helitron
HI Flight,

thanks! the pult is a (S)Hitpult from Conrad electronics (part supplier in germany and austria).

Thanks for the schematics and the explaination - everything clear now. I will add a 100k trim then. Didn't have one around.

hel
tragedybysyntax
i feel like a jackass since i havent really had time to play with the 3.1 since I got it... with my dad being in the hospital I just havent been home. My 3.1 is really low to. i thought it was just me but... a/b to the old version i have sitting ontop of it... it's low. So where do I put a 100k trim pot to fix this? smile
flight
There's three holes on the right side of the PCB just next to the chip and above the metal can. You will need to remove the SMT resistor that is between the holes and the IC.
computer controlled
I'll be getting a PB in a trade this week. How will i know what version it is? Is it marked on the PCB anywhere?
tragedybysyntax
so remove that smt part and put the 100k trim pot in its place?
flight
@ computer controlled: Yep, It is either silkscreened onto the PCB (r2.3) or etched into the copper (r3.1, r3.2). To verify that the upgrade has been done, check to see if the resistor to the right of the IC is marked "1002"


@ tragedybysyntax: Yup!
computer controlled
Thanks. Looking forward to bastardizing something with this!
tragedybysyntax
kevin, thanks bud! I guess i didnt really catch the prob because i was running this and the 2.1 in series, lol. Man am I fucking pumped to fix the 3.1 and start tearing off heads!!!! Can't wait to hear what it's supposed to sound like! Tomorrow evening.... it is my plans after work!!!!! =)
flight
Let me know what you think when it's done - there are a few other little changes to bring it fully up to the 3.2 revision, but if you like how it sounds I wouldn't bother with them. If the sound isn't quite what you'd like I'll still swap it out no charge.
computer controlled
I got my PB today. It's a rev2.2. Weird power connector on it. Now all i need it for my case to arrive and to order my power supply.
flight
Ah, one of the very early ones! I had originally thought "why use a dual-row connector when it only needs a single-row". Standardization won out, of course.
tragedybysyntax
FIXD!!! This thing sounds sick! lol. CUrious as to what other mods you say will bring it up to the newest version. Easy fixes i could do?
flight


Simple, yes. Easy? Not as much so. These all (aside from removing the transistor) involve replacing SMD.

Removing the transistor makes a HUGE difference in the tone. It is responsible for most of the difference in character vs. the r2.3, and is only used when a negative CV is applied. The rest of the time it just muddies up the sound.

The 2MΩ resistor may have a capacitor sitting on top of it, and it may not be 2MΩ, since I started replacing these with 1MΩ early on. This is one of the feedback resistors for the filter section, and it sets the maximum distortion amount - bigger resistor = more distortion. I felt it was adding too much.
The 10pF cap is the same one that may be soldered on top of the above resistor and is necessary to stop extremely excessive oscillation. I just moved it to an open spot on the board since that's just a better way to co it.

The 15kΩ that gets changed to 49k9Ω is the wiper resistor for the Gain CV pot. In short, removing the transistor makes the circuit MUCH more sensitive on the high end, which made it so that, when turning the knob, you could hear the wiper scraping across the resistive element (due to the innate rough surface of the carbon-film track). Increasing this resistor reduces the response of the VC Gain to filter this out.

whee!
tragedybysyntax
So now that I've added the trimpot and have balls of gain...... at the least you think removing that transistor will really set it apart from the older version? I'm game for that! smile
computer controlled
So what kind of tone does this early one have compared to the newest version?
tragedybysyntax
Not to sound like a dick but at this point I have no idea what the latest version is even supposed to sound like, heh. Even after the gain boost i still like the original alot more.
modularplanner
I'm a little confused regarding my PB Rev 2.3. I dont know why i didnt say something earlier, but I've neglected this module since day 1 because of it.

I'm just putting a sawtooth wave through it from an the a-110 and then directly out of the PB into the a-132-3 vca.

Input level on the PB is at 3 o'clock <--- is this too high, what should it be at normally?
Gain 9 o'clock

The problem is now matter how I turn the knobs I'm hearing the affected sound but at the same time here the dry sawtooth too. It's like its passing a copy of the input wave straight dry out of of the system along witht the fitered sound seriously, i just don't get it

edit: another odd thing.Both low and high on the PB set to 12 o'clock. I put 2 tri waves set to low speed from the 143-3 quad lfo into both low and high cv sockets. Low is being modulated, high isnt. when I tweak the high knob its is making a noticable difference though.
flight
tragedybysyntax wrote:
So now that I've added the trimpot and have balls of gain...... at the least you think removing that transistor will really set it apart from the older version? I'm game for that! s:mile:

It's already set apart, removing the transistor brings it back closer to the original.

computer controlled wrote:
So what kind of tone does this early one have compared to the newest version?

The r2.2 & r2.3 sound pretty much identical and the r3.2 is very similar, but more so (if that makes any sense), with more presence in the midrange and a bit brighter on the highs, from what I've been told.

tragedybysyntax wrote:
Not to sound like a dick but at this point I have no idea what the latest version is even supposed to sound like, heh. Even after the gain boost i still like the original alot more.

I understand, that's why I spent the time to figure out the mods! All of the affected r3.1 units are under a voluntary recall - if you don't like 'em, I'll swap 'em out. Just send it back to me & I'll get a new one on it's way.

modularplanner wrote:
I'm a little confused regarding my PB Rev 2.3. I dont know why i didnt say something earlier, but I've neglected this module since day 1 because of it.

I'm just putting a sawtooth wave through it from an the a-110 and then directly out of the PB into the a-132-3 vca.

Input level on the PB is at 3 o'clock
Gain 9 o'clock

The problem is now matter how I turn the knobs I'm hearing the affected sound but at the same time here the dry sawtooth too. It's like its passing a copy of the input wave straight dry out of of the system along witht the fitered sound seriously, i just don't get it


At first thought, it sounds like it 's being overdriven. Try attenuating the input and we'll go from there.
modularplanner
ok yep thats helped I think but the CV High sockets dont seem to be working. Gonna pull it out and see if anything is amiss.

Edit: nothing visible seems borked. Must say its a really nice sound though razz
flight
*phew*
Damn glad to hear that worked! And that you like it! w00tz!

High CV: Try turning the High control all the way down, and the Low and Gain around 12:00. The result is most dramatic with a square wave signal for the audio input, of course, but it should be plenty noticeable on a saw as well.
If there's still no effect, the jack(s) may be bad. If you are able, grab an ohmmeter and make sure that there's no continuity between the tip terminal and ground.
modularplanner
ok im a bit crap with multimeters, pretty much all ive used it for is testing resistors and probing voltages. how to i test the continuity?
flight
Usually they will have a symbol at the bottom range of the resistance settings, it is usually like "◄))", meaning it beeps, and it will beep if continuity is detected. Failing that, set it to its lowest setting and check for 0 ohms.
modularplanner
Ok I have that symbol on here, where do i stick the multimeter probes to test this?
Uncopyrightable
modularplanner wrote:
Ok I have that symbol on here, where do i stick the multimeter probes to test this?


If I'm following the conversation correctly, check for continuity between the tip and ground ( + & - ) of the "High" CV Input.

When checking continuity with the meter I dont think you need to worry about matching the pos and neg probes to anything appropriate, any orientation should give same result.

Someone may want to agree with me before you take my word on any of this.

razz
flight
I agree!
And the easiest way to do this would be to check it at the connector. One probe to the high terminal and the other to one of the ground pins on the power connector
modularplanner
ok check if im doing this right, Im touching the red probe to just inside the high cv socket and when i touch the black probe to any of the middle 3 pins of the 5 pin power connector it beeps, if I touch it to the outer 2 pins it doesnt? is that right?
flight
Nope, the entire barrel is grounded, which makes it very hard to touch just the tip contact. I meant you chould touch the red probe to the white 2-pin connector at the PCB. The positions are labelled directly on the PCB, so it's easy to spot. Just stick the probe in the top where the wire goes in - you should be able to see the metal contact that the wire is pressed into, touch the probe to that (and the black probe to any of the middle power pins).
modularplanner
ok i gotcha, no beeps when i do this.
modularplanner
ooh weird its working now. wonder if I pushed the wire in when i stuck the probe in there. Nothing like a good probing to work wonders.
flight
sweet.

Yeah, I've been told the connectors can work loose in shipping sometimes & just need a good wiggle.

Sounds like "poke & wiggle" is always worth a try. wink
FlyAgaric
hello there! from Russia with passion. new to community, and to synthDIY also.
since i couldn't start a new thread due to my n00bness (yes the postcount) i decided to ask a question in this one. seems like flight keeps checking it out.
intro:
i receieved my two PBs recently and threw them in a nice case, still a LOT free space inside so i may consider stuffing it with more crazy gizmos hehe...
oh yes and the power supply will still fit in.
tried with an atari punk console and its a blast! more than that, goa trance sounds insanely wicked through it, too SlayerBadger!

The question is how long will this combo (PBx2) last on a couple of 9V batteries switched as +/-9V?
flight
Welcome FlyAgaric! I do try to keep an eye on my subforum, so good call. smile

That sounds like a fun little setup you have there. Good question though - I have to say that I don't know! oops Would you keep track and report back on how long they last?
FlyAgaric
sure thing!
but i don't think it will be of any use as i am going to add some more simple modules to this case so the batteries will run out faster.
anyway.
ps. the knobs look really cool and feel great! though they are a hell to remove once you have them in place. yay for toughness!
Slomen
I seem to be having the same problem as described in the first post, but I have a rev. 3.2. Got it second hand.

It´s like the gain knob doesnt do very much..
HeWhoWantsJeans
Slomen wrote:
I seem to be having the same problem as described in the first post, but I have a rev. 3.2. Got it second hand.

It´s like the gain knob doesnt do very much..

I'm sorry to hear that. I'll contact Flight after work and see if I can't scare him into this thread.
Cthulhu
flight
Slomen wrote:
I seem to be having the same problem as described in the first post, but I have a rev. 3.2. Got it second hand.

It´s like the gain knob doesnt do very much..

Hey Slomen,
Sorry to hear your having problems with it. Would you explain in a bit more detail please? It sounds like you have a rev 3.2 with low output and minimal manual gain control, anything else?
Slomen
Hey Flight!

I´m not sure if it has a low output, it matches the sound directly from a sound source when the Input Level is at 9 o´clock. But the gain only has a slight effect from 5 o´clock to full CW, then it adds a little resonance.
flight
Slomen wrote:
Hey Flight!

I´m not sure if it has a low output, it matches the sound directly from a sound source when the Input Level is at 9 o´clock. But the gain only has a slight effect from 5 o´clock to full CW, then it adds a little resonance.
Here's me apologizing for my delay in response again, whee! I just moved to a new place and have been very busy.
ANYWAY, Hmmm, that doesn't tell me much. Could you post some samples showing clean input and then – with High and Low at 50% – with increasing Gain?
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