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Anyone else blown a power supply running LZX?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Video Synthesis  
Author Anyone else blown a power supply running LZX?
Juxwl
I recently blew my happy ending kit wall-wart out running my LZX system. It is rated at 1Amp and addition of the max current of my system was about 815ma. What gives? What is everyone else using to power the system? I bought a new switching supply from Jameco rated at 2.67amps and haven't had problems.
barto
im using the doepfer a-100p9 with default power and ive never had a problem
BRIZ
a-100g6

no problems
lizlarsen
It's odd that your power supply would actually blow out, rather than just shutting down or turning off.

uZeus is rated at 1A on +12V, but only 500mA on -12V. That's probably where your problem lies. You can see the breakdown of power consumption per rail for the LZX modules here:
http://www.lzxindustries.net/case-power-supply-selection-guide/

Total up the consumption on the -12V rail and if it's over 500mA, that would help explain it.
nickciontea
FYI
the wall wart that comes with HEK is rated under an amp where as the triad wall wart is rated up to and possibly just over one amp.

so if replacing get the TRIAD brand. i believe mouser numbers are in the pdfs from tip top

ps.. i also blew out an original HEK wall wart on a large audio setup.. got hot.. stopped working. no ill effects on the rig though
revmutt
My Modular World case was heating up and did shut down twice. I added a second power supply so each board has it's own and all is good now.
Juxwl
creatorlars wrote:
It's odd that your power supply would actually blow out, rather than just shutting down or turning off.

uZeus is rated at 1A on +12V, but only 500mA on -12V. That's probably where your problem lies. You can see the breakdown of power consumption per rail for the LZX modules here:
http://www.lzxindustries.net/case-power-supply-selection-guide/

Total up the consumption on the -12V rail and if it's over 500mA, that would help explain it.


I thought it was weird, too. The whole system just shut down, I gave it an hour to chill out and tried again but it wouldn't work. I hooked it to my bench supply and it worked but was running 1.3 amps. So, noob question, to estimate max current, do you add the +12V current to the -12V current? This might explain the bench current readout and the blown wall-wart.
lizlarsen
That's right. I'm no power supply expert either, but the wall-wart is supplying current to all of the rails, so the power consumption must be added together for all rails -- and probably more, to allow for some headroom and inefficiency in the power supply, too.
lizlarsen
Some notes from my partner Ed:
Quote:
I looked at that power supply awhile ago. It is a linear 12V and 5V
regulator, and a -12V module (most likely an inverting buck-boost
topology.) so using a inverting buck-boost will give you up to 80-90%
efficiency. So yep pretty much all the currents for each rail add up.
The wall-wart was 15V, so that's 3V and 10V dropping over the 12V and
5V linear regulators respectively. The 5V regulator had no heatsinking
from memory. The 12V regulator's case was attached to the front panel.
Apparently, it gets pretty warm. Definitely needs a 2A wallwart to
supply 12V@1A, -12V @500mA and 5V @ 170mA.
Personally, I wouldn't run it that close to the limits. I wouldn't
advise a uZeus for a pure or mostly 3U LZX system.
Matos
So what would work well for a 3u 84hp system? I have 12u of pure euro and plan to fill a 3u with lzx and another 3u with some lzx and the rest video effective euro like peg. Is there any wall wart baed so I'm not stuck with a big transformer in a tiny case?
lizlarsen
Try the Zeus powered distro board:
http://www.tiptopaudio.com/zeuspwr.php
Matos
I see. So one of these per 3u? The quick connect has the switch and power access on the rear it seems. Other than that the 2 Zeus buses are the same?
Low-Gain
1Amp per 3U minimum.

This should really be the standard for most euro racks in general.
IMHO
lizlarsen
I think that's right, about the 2 Zeus boards being the same besides the quickconnect and switch mounted on the back.

Quick calculation is 10mA per rail per HP, for LZX stuff. But a decent amount of headroom is always a good idea. 1A per 3U is a great guideline, the Zeus boards give you more than that (1.2A per rail I think.)
lizlarsen
In my Mission9 case, I have a 3.4A @ +/-12V supply. It's International Power brand from Mouser, and cost about $100. It's huge and heavy, but more than enough for the 9U case and significantly cheaper than three Zeus boards (although maybe not quite as good performance.)
smrl
Power-One HC12-3.4-A

Not light, but they're nice.

These are all over ebay, you can find them sometimes for ~$20

If you're into wiring them up. I can confirm they work great, and put out 3.4a per rail. No 5v. I used TipTop distro boards which have a built in 5v reg, and added heatsinks under the regulators.
daverj
The uZeus seems OK for powering an audio skiff, or a 3U of non-power hungry audio modules. It isn't big enough for powering high powered digital modules or video modules.

To calculate the output of your bus boards or power supply, add each rail by itself (ie: so many ma +12, so many ma -12, etc..).
It's best to then add a bit on to that so the power supply has some reserve. When supplies are run at full rating they get hot and there's not much air movement in most cases. Plus some modules draw a bit of extra power when used in certain ways. So it's best if your calculations add up to maybe 3/4 of what the supply can really put out. Then it's not running super hot and near it's limit.

For supplies that need a wall wart you usually have to add up all the rails, and then add some for the same reasons above (heat & surges), and then add more to account for inefficiency of the wall wart. So, for example, to get the full 1A +12, 500ma -12, 170ma +5 of a uZeus, that adds up to about 1.7A. Add some on for efficiency and you need a 2A wall wart to get everything a uZeus can supply (but it's still best to only ask it to supply 3/4 of that). A regular Zeus can supply (theoretically) 2.6A, so adding on for efficiency losses of the wall wart you need maybe a 3A wall wart per Zeus board.

While a Doepfer supply is not light, the transformer in it is not as heavy as the one in a Power One, and in the long run not much heavier than the wall wart needed to supply that much power. I personally prefer a supply built in rather than have to keep track of a wall wart when traveling.

On the other hand, I do understand the appeal of installing a supply that doesn't have dangerous voltages on it's inputs, since a wall wart seals those high voltages inside and you don't have to mess with 110 or 220 directly.

Remember that the power supply is a critical part of any electronic machine, so don't skimp on it thinking that saving a few bucks or a few ounces is more important.
MrDys
I've been doing pretty well with about 3U of LZX and 3U of euro modulators/etc running off of a FoH Power module + 2A Triad wall wart.
Juxwl
This is the supply I purchased from Jameco that seems to work for me through the uzeus (then add a cable and adapter):

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId= -1&productId=221577&catalogId=10001&freeText=221577&app.products.maxpe rpage=15&storeId=10001&search_type=jamecoall&ddkey=http:StoreCatalogDr illDownView

Anyone see any issues with using this?
lizlarsen
That looks good to me. But still keep in mind that you're still limited to 500mA being drawn on the -12V rail.
Juxwl
creatorlars wrote:
That looks good to me. But still keep in mind that you're still limited to 500mA being drawn on the -12V rail.


Why that limitation? Sorry for being a noob, but is that cuurent limitation because of uzeus?
lizlarsen
Quote:
Why that limitation? Sorry for being a noob, but is that cuurent limitation because of uzeus?


That's correct. The uZeus according to the TipTop website is rated at a maximum of 500mA draw on the -12V rail.
Matos
Solar powered spam. It's better for the environment.
jeannot
Guinness ftw!
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