Hinton Instruments PinMix

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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Graham Hinton
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Hinton Instruments PinMix

Post by Graham Hinton » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:38 am

Image
modularfreak wrote:How much for the 2015e? Fully buffered, of course!? No trimmers part of the module, yet.
£825 including a set of pins, excluding VAT in EU.
Unbuffered is not an option, it defeats the point of using an expensive matrix component. All I/O is balanced/unbalanced and may have different connectors, same electrical spec as SwitchMix.

Octal Trimmers have been available for a year. These may be used independently or plumbed in directly.

And it seems there are more modules coming along....
Yes.
Last edited by Graham Hinton on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Diao
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Post by Diao » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:49 am

Wow! This looks fantastic! Excellent products as always, sir. :love:

Can I get you to spill the beans on other modules you have in the works?

Also, how many hp is it, and with how many pins does it ship?

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Post by jfloftin » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:27 am

I second that!

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Post by tIB » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:33 am

wow, congrats! :guinness:

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Post by weinglas » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:40 am

Great module :yay:
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mirarimusic wrote:... This fucking blows away Beyonces release today as well!!!!
dan_p wrote: I'll still be listening to this one in years to come. best thing I've heard for ages
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Post by Mitchk1989 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:23 pm

how many hp is that?

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djangosfire
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Re: Hinton Instruments PinMix

Post by djangosfire » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Graham Hinton wrote:Image
modularfreak wrote:How much for the 2015e? Fully buffered, of course!? No trimmers part of the module, yet.
£825 including a set of pins, excluding VAT in EU.
Unbuffered is not an option, it defeats the point of using an expensive matrix component. All I/O is balanced/unbalanced and may have different connectors, same electrical spec as SwitchMix.

Octal Trimmers have been available for a year. These may be used independently or plumbed in directly.

And it seems there are more modules coming along....
Yes.
Finally, this is really frikking awesome...... You've got mind mind working overtime - I would build a system around this interface. Excellent work!
Thank you - Hope your day is awesome!

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Graham Hinton
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Post by Graham Hinton » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:14 pm

Diao wrote: Can I get you to spill the beans on other modules you have in the works?
No :), but as you can see there is another module which will be available early next year.
Also, how many hp is it, and with how many pins does it ship?
42HP, allow at least 80mm depth. 15 pins, three of each colour, extra ones cost £10 each.
Larger matrices may be custom built, but this size is the only one that will go between the rails of a 3U Eurorack.
djangosfire wrote: I would build a system around this interface.
That is the general idea. My first modular was built around a matrix and there are so many things that just can't be done without them.

Thanks for everyones' compliments.

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Post by REwire » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:50 pm

Lack of this was the main reason why I couldn't deal with the Doepfer Vocoder System. There are 15 Analysis Patches to 15 Synthesis and mixing them up is where the real creative stuff is. But 15 patch cords all in a small area was too much to handle and keep straight. This would make it like the old EMS Vocoder.

Dan

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ersatzplanet
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Post by ersatzplanet » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:04 pm

Are there options to wire internally to the normalized connectors of those jacks? If I had one of these, I would hardwire it to modules in my rig. Would it be possible to make a smaller and cheaper version with no jacks? I would imagine there would not be a large number of users who would want to hardwire it it the rest of the rig but I would be one of them.
-James
-James

James Husted - Synthwerks, LLC - www.synthwerks.com - info@synthwerks.com - james@synthwerks.com
Synthwerks is a proud member of the Mostly Modular Trade Association (http://www.mostlymodular.com).
Always looking to trade for Doepfer P6 cases

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Post by gwaidan » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:41 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:Would it be possible to make a smaller and cheaper version with no jacks? I would imagine there would not be a large number of users who would want to hardwire it it the rest of the rig but I would be one of them.
-James
Analogue Solutions have something like that already....

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analogueso ... .cfm?id=79

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analogueso ... .cfm?ID=82

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Post by radiodread87 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:36 pm

gwaidan wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:Would it be possible to make a smaller and cheaper version with no jacks? I would imagine there would not be a large number of users who would want to hardwire it it the rest of the rig but I would be one of them.
-James
Analogue Solutions have something like that already....

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analogueso ... .cfm?id=79

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analogueso ... .cfm?ID=82
yes and its cheap and crap and doesn't come with pins which will cost you 3 times what the module is worth to buy them if you want a decent amount. Comparing Asol with Hinton is like comparing a Peugoet with a Mercedes...
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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:58 pm

radiodread87 wrote:
gwaidan wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:Would it be possible to make a smaller and cheaper version with no jacks? I would imagine there would not be a large number of users who would want to hardwire it it the rest of the rig but I would be one of them.
-James
Analogue Solutions have something like that already....

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analogueso ... .cfm?id=79

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analogueso ... .cfm?ID=82
yes and its cheap and crap and doesn't come with pins which will cost you 3 times what the module is worth to buy them if you want a decent amount. Comparing Asol with Hinton is like comparing a Peugoet with a Mercedes...
More specifically, the Analogue Solutions matrices are passive,
whereas the Hinton matrices are buffered.

The buffered matrix has all the benefits that a buffered multiple + an active mixer have.
No signal droop.

For this reason, the Hinton matrix is superior to the original EMS implementations (if I remember correctly that they are also passive).

I can definitely see the benefits of building a system around one of these with normalized connections.

The biggest caveat with all the pin matrices is the expense of the pins.
At 10 British Pounds Sterling they are still overpriced IMO.
That is even more expensive than a TipTop Stackable,
yet with a much simpler machining process.
I understand the niche manufacturing quantity issue,
but there must be some way to bring the price down on those pins.

A pin matrix allows you to fit more connections in a smaller space,
but I would much much rather have the instantaneous rerouting action of a button matrix like the SwitchMix.
Button matrices have the potential to make the modular more of a cohesive, live-playable instrument IMO.
To this end, I'm building a 4MS BendMatrix.
After finishing it, and seeing how I get on with it for a while
I'll consider the investment of a SwitchMix.

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Post by chinard » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:11 pm

radiodread87 wrote:Comparing Asol with Hinton is like comparing a Peugoet with a Mercedes...
you mean they never use turn signals?


Soo, what is that ModMix beastie peaking out from the corners?

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Post by radiodread87 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:26 pm

chinard wrote:
radiodread87 wrote:Comparing Asol with Hinton is like comparing a Peugoet with a Mercedes...
you mean they never use turn signals?

haha touche' just more a metaphor for quality than anything.

Mod mix looks interesting even though I dont know what it does yet :help:
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Post by Graham Hinton » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:46 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:Are there options to wire internally to the normalized connectors of those jacks?
Those particular jacks are Tini-Jax without break contacts. We could fit break contacts, but they can only be guaranteed to break with a Tini-Jax plug and then that will probably jam in your other modules. There is no jack that can be guaranteed to work with all the varieties of 3.5mm plugs out there because there is no standard to refer to. What often happens is that the contact does not completely break and you end up with a short between the normalled signal and the one being plugged in.

However, if you want direct wiring you can go in to the DB25 on the pcb which conforms to the Tascam standard. All of our modules use this method which is how we can offer different connector options and it also makes it more serviceable. All the inputs are differential and inversion is almost free by adding a DPDT "phase change" switch.
If I had one of these, I would hardwire it to modules in my rig. Would it be possible to make a smaller and cheaper version with no jacks?
No jacks, yes. Smaller, a little. Cheaper, a custom panel would be a bit more, but we could do one with your module names on for about £100 or let you do your own and just supply the OEM works. It would be cheaper to have a standard panel and convert the jack holes to pin parks. We can supply crimped DB25 looms to save you soldering up DB25 plugs.
Cat-A-Tonic wrote: More specifically, the Analogue Solutions matrices are passive,
whereas the Hinton matrices are buffered.
An NxN matrix with shorting pins gives you no more that two rows of N jacks and some mults do--a waste of a matrix.
Our pins are precision resistor pins and our NxN matrix is equivalent to N N-input precision adders.
The buffered matrix has all the benefits that a buffered multiple + an active mixer have.
No signal droop.
There will be no droop by adding more pins, even if you route one input to all outputs, but you will lose 1% of the signal if you are coming from a module with 1k output resistors. This is a problem with all buffered mults, they do not make up prior losses. For these situations our Trimmer module may be set to precisely compensate for drops earlier in the chain.
The biggest caveat with all the pin matrices is the expense of the pins.
At 10 British Pounds Sterling they are still overpriced IMO.
That is even more expensive than a TipTop Stackable,
yet with a much simpler machining process.
That's not an equivalent function. EMS charge £8 for their pins which are nowhere near the same quality.
I understand the niche manufacturing quantity issue,
but there must be some way to bring the price down on those pins.
There is only one manufacturer of these pins and they set the price and a MOQ. If this becomes a popular product we can negotiate a better price based on quantity. Same with the matrices. We are going to manufacture this in batches, so if you don't mind waiting a little while we can aggregate orders and pass the savings back.
A pin matrix allows you to fit more connections in a smaller space,
but I would much much rather have the instantaneous rerouting action of a button matrix like the SwitchMix.
Button matrices have the potential to make the modular more of a cohesive, live-playable instrument IMO.
It's horses for courses really. A switch matrix gets too big as the size goes up and costs a lot more as all the hardware is there all the time and it goes up geometrically with the area. A pin matrix is better for larger sizes as the cost only goes up by the length of the busbars and you can choose how many pins you need, certainly less than one for every hole.
To this end, I'm building a 4MS BendMatrix.
Beware that these are not the same thing. Like you pointed out above they are like a passive matrix except that the switches are FETs and have an on resistance.

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Post by denim dan » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:25 pm

Graham Hinton wrote:
There is only one manufacturer of these pins and they set the price and a MOQ.
may i ask if this pin design is patented? and if so could i take a look at the patent #? thank you.

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Post by pixelmechanic » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:30 am

Posted this pic of one of Graham's early modulars previously in the Post Pics of Euro Setup... thought it worth a revisit...

Image

Comes complete a great sticker inside, "30th Anniversary Repair"

Am lucky enough to have it live in the studio I share with Sean Williams (aka Process) here at Edinburgh Uni. The Trap Gen is awesome, super fast and snappy.

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Post by numan7 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:48 am

:woah: amazing and beautiful! - all of the above (early modules, the (M)odMix/2003E and the incredibly functional- and gorgeous-looking 2015E PinMix... :deadnana: of which i'd really, really fancy a set! :hail:)! - it's like a synthi from the future!!! :sb: :goo: :party:

cheers,
7n7
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Post by komyta » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:49 am

That ModMix looks promising ! :cloud:

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Post by mystico » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:13 am

:tardis:

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Post by indexofmetals » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:29 pm

numan7 wrote::woah: amazing and beautiful! - all of the above (early modules, the (M)odMix/2003E and the incredibly functional- and gorgeous-looking 2015E PinMix... :deadnana: of which i'd really, really fancy a set! :hail:)! - it's like a synthi from the future!!! :sb: :goo: :party:

cheers,
7n7
I agree. A system of these would be very appealing in a portable case with the pin matrix.

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Post by dequalsrxt » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:44 pm

That's some fucking scientific-ass shit right there bro.

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Post by Fidgit » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:24 am

Graham Hinton wrote:Those particular jacks are Tini-Jax.
tiny jax are not the same as regular 3.5mm jacks. tiny jax have a larger diameter than 3.5mm jacks/sockets (as usually used in the euro world).

this topic was brought up in the buchla 200e context already. the fact that this module is equipped with tiny jax (instead of the 3.5mm as usual in the euro world) is quite irritating (to me).

3.5mm plugs in tiny sockets tend not to make a proper connection eventually, tiny plugs in 3.5mm sockets wear out the sockets and make them loose and unreliable for 3.5mm plugs. :(
while it may work, it's not fully compatible and advisable, afaik.

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Post by Junk Rhythm » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:32 am

Graham Hinton wrote:Those particular jacks are Tini-Jax.
Bummer

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