Graphic Sequencer Broken? Lame

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analogPedagog
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Graphic Sequencer Broken? Lame

Post by analogPedagog » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:16 pm

My graphic sequencer was working great and then it just stopped and won't advance past the first stage. What is up with this? Reading through the posts I see that this has happened before. Am I correct that I new PCB has to be PURCHASED to fix this problem??? I'm sorry but I'm really pissed off. :mad:

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Soy Sos
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Post by Soy Sos » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:21 pm

Your fist act should be to contact the manufacturer directly.
The mod synth world tends towards good communication and helpful
folks. At least that's generally been my experience. Hit up STG and I'm sure you'll be sorted out.

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Post by analogPedagog » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:30 pm

thx, that's what I'm Gonna do, just had to blow off some steam. I'm not used to my modules spontaneously breaking.

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Post by suitandtieguy » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:48 pm

this happens when another module in the system is plugged in backwards and +12 and +5 are tied together with ground.

however, if you plug _this_ module in backwards nothing is damaged.

i'm sorry. i will never again make a new module that uses the 5V rail at all.


my email address is linked right there at the bottom of this post. please contact me.
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suboptimal wrote:... if it's music you want to make with your modular, STG should be in your system.

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Post by infradead » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:56 pm

so it wasn't spontaneous then?
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analogPedagog
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Post by analogPedagog » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:02 pm

suitandtieguy wrote:this happens when another module in the system is plugged in backwards and +12 and +5 are tied together with ground.

however, if you plug _this_ module in backwards nothing is damaged.

i'm sorry. i will never again make a new module that uses the 5V rail at all.


my email address is linked right there at the bottom of this post. please contact me.
Yea but that isn't what occurred here. All my modules were plugged in correctly. everything was working fine until I started using the intellijel Filpflop to trigger the stage one input.

I'm not sure what The totality of this issue is exactly, but it appears to have caused you some grief.

Please let me know your policy for resolving this issue.




The 5V thing is a little bit odd if you don't mind my opinion.

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Post by analogPedagog » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:56 pm

suitandtieguy wrote:
my email address is linked right there at the bottom of this post. please contact me.
I went through both links and I didn't see any links for an email addy. I PMed you a few hours ago though.

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Post by jeannot » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:05 am

The 5V thing is a little bit odd if you don't mind my opinion.
Not if you have a few Metasonix modules plugged in.

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Post by suitandtieguy » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:31 am

analogPedagog wrote:The 5V thing is a little bit odd if you don't mind my opinion.
the 5V rail is part of the eurorack spec according to Doepfer.

at the time we designed the module it was not clear that the eurorack power situation was completely and totally fucked.

i have brutalised the shift and stage one input with a 14.5V pulse train for over 24 hours and not damaged it. coupled with the fact that we protected the power input from reverse voltage with a power diode and overcurrent with a polyfuse, i don't see how there was an abrogation of responsibility on my part.

a friend of mine here in peoria has the intellijel flip-flop module and i'm going to have him bring it over here and we're going to try to fry the shit out of one of my sequencers with it.

i am going to replace your PCB. i am also going to find out what the hell the flip-flop does that could damage it, because i'm pretty sure now that i've thought about it that my friend with the flip-flop had the same thing happen to him.

it would be of tremendous benefit to our research if you could explain the patch in complete detail which you were running when it happened.
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suboptimal wrote:... if it's music you want to make with your modular, STG should be in your system.

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Post by suitandtieguy » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:41 am

i need to know also what kind of cables you're using in it.
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suboptimal wrote:... if it's music you want to make with your modular, STG should be in your system.

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Post by dequalsrxt » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:55 am

There's this from a flip-flop thread in the euro forum. Could possibly be maybe related probably...
Oldstench wrote:Just got one and I'm having a bit of weird behavior. If I patch something into J or K while the clock's running, sometimes it causes my whole system to reset. I've checked the power and everything is kosher. Really hope I didn't get a bum one.
dequalsrxt wrote:I've had that problem intermittently. My guess is maybe the cable is touching the something on pcb and causing problems - sort of like the envelator dmod and stackable problem. I haven't had the problem for a while and I haven't tried to reproduce the behavior, so it's just a guess.

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Post by DonaldCrunk » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:28 am

i am the peorian with the flopflip. i was going to hold back from posting until we definitively found the issue here, but i will point this out -

on my system, i have no issues clocking either the graphic or trigger sequencers from the outputs , however if i accidentally plug the shift input into the j or k input of the Graphic, the sequencer stops working. all the lights go out so i'm inclined to think that power is being shunted to ground. the event also kills my Trigger Sequencer, even with nothing plugged into the input, so the 5v rail is somehow being affected. both modules are plugged in correctly from the distro board.

a simple power reset brings the graphic right back for me, and this is not an issue i experience very often as their is little point in plugging an input into an input. when patching gets hot and heavy, however, it's easy to plug a cable in to the wrong spot, especially with a jack-heavy compact module like the flipflop. i don't know if this is what happened with the OP , but it's possible. i've been clocking both the Graphic and Trigger sequencers from the flip flop outputs with no problems for a few months now, sometimes leaving my modular on for days on end with a patch.


as suit pointed out, these were some of the first 3rd party sequencers available for euro, a lot about the 'power situation' has been learned since. he'll fix it for you, and hopefully we'll learn the exact issue in the process.

after the holidays are over, i'll take my modular over to the soundlab and we'll do some intensive troubleshooting with the flipflop and graphics.


but in the mean time, i posted all this just after confirming repeatedly this AM - do not plug the J or K input into the shift input of the Graphic or Trigger sequencers

this should be a rare and accidental occurrence anyway, but just keep an eye on things if you have both of these modules.

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Post by det3 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:43 am

I'd like to see what voltage and output impedance the flip flop module has.

Also, I hereby proclaim that the +5V rail in modular systems should be deemed the "third rail". Yeah, I said it.

More trouble than it's worth in many cases. :D
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Post by intellijel » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:29 pm

UPDATED:

The J input is normalled to +12V (through switching terminal) and the K input is normalled to the J jack. If the +12V is shorting to ground at these jacks then this will definitely cause the problems!!

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Post by analogPedagog » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:41 pm

DonaldCrunk wrote:i am the peorian with the flopflip. i was going to hold back from posting until we definitively found the issue here, but i will point this out -

on my system, i have no issues clocking either the graphic or trigger sequencers from the outputs , however if i accidentally plug the shift input into the j or k input of the Graphic, the sequencer stops working. all the lights go out so i'm inclined to think that power is being shunted to ground. the event also kills my Trigger Sequencer, even with nothing plugged into the input, so the 5v rail is somehow being affected. both modules are plugged in correctly from the distro board.

a simple power reset brings the graphic right back for me, and this is not an issue i experience very often as their is little point in plugging an input into an input. when patching gets hot and heavy, however, it's easy to plug a cable in to the wrong spot, especially with a jack-heavy compact module like the flipflop. i don't know if this is what happened with the OP , but it's possible. i've been clocking both the Graphic and Trigger sequencers from the flip flop outputs with no problems for a few months now, sometimes leaving my modular on for days on end with a patch.


as suit pointed out, these were some of the first 3rd party sequencers available for euro, a lot about the 'power situation' has been learned since. he'll fix it for you, and hopefully we'll learn the exact issue in the process.

after the holidays are over, i'll take my modular over to the soundlab and we'll do some intensive troubleshooting with the flipflop and graphics.


but in the mean time, i posted all this just after confirming repeatedly this AM - do not plug the J or K input into the shift input of the Graphic or Trigger sequencers

this should be a rare and accidental occurrence anyway, but just keep an eye on things if you have both of these modules.
This actually may have been exactly what happened, I'm not positive but If this can be the only cause of this issue occuring then it must have been. Yes patching into the ff is quite dense so I may have accidently patched into the j or k input.

I was using Paia Patch cables in this particular instance.
Also, I used a tiptop passive distro board with the onboard 5V regulator tied to the 12V rail. Hope this helps with troubleshooting.

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