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E.A.S. "miss10" HADSR PCB [SOLD OUT]
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author E.A.S. "miss10" HADSR PCB [SOLD OUT]

E.A.S.

Hey guys,

Here is the next PCB to bring you closer to your miss10/20 build.

The HADSR pcb is a classic envelope generator circuit.

Hold, Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release!!!

In addition to the Standard ADSR it has a hold stage that can extend your gate time. (great for running it from pulse triggers) It also has on board, a unipolar output, a bipolar output, and an inverted bipolar output. All on a small 2.5 x 3.8" pcb (63.5mm x 96.52mm)

This board is the same size as the VCO, VCF/VCA, and the LFO/SAMPLE AND HOLD/NOISE pcbs.


They are High Quality Double sided ROHS compliant boards with
soldermask and white silk screen layer.

now included is a euro power connector. I've also added the MOTM style power connector.

pcb preview

Miss 10 HADSR by itsfatmike, on Flickr

On this board Ive also made provision on the board for different gate options. You can build it with and s-trigger input or a v-trigger input.

If you want in on this run, the price is $18.00 usd each, shipped anywhere.

payment via paypal to Michael (dot) alan (dot) schmidt (at gmail) (dot) com.

If you do not like supporting paypal I can also take credit cards directly through my business.

location of connectors.

hadsr by itsfatmike, on Flickr

Schematic.


MISS TEN HADSR by itsfatmike, on Flickr

I used a dual 1M pot wired in series to get a 2M pot. like this...

IMG_0458 by itsfatmike, on Flickr

Bill of Materials.

C35 6.8uf/16v
C36 0.0033uf
C37 10uf/16v
C38 0.022uf
D14 1N4148
D20 1N4148
D21 1N4148
D22 1N4148
D23 1N4148
D24 1N4148
IC10 LM4558
IC11 TL081
IC12 MC14007
IC13 CD4069
J1 JACK
J2 JACK
J3 JACK
J4 JACK
R110 1K
R111 1K
R112 100K
R113 10K
R114 10K
R115 100K
R117 2.7K
R118 100K
R119 4.3K
R120 100K
R121 150K
R122 43K
R123 100K
R124 470R
R125 100K
R126 47K
R127 1K
R128 220K
R129 100K
R130 100K
R131 470R
R132 680R
R133 33K
R134 10M
R135 100K
R136 10K
R137 1M
R138 1M
R139 1M
Rg1 10k
TR11 2n3904
TR12 2n3904
TRg1 2n3904
VR18 1MA
VR19 10KB
VR20 1MA
VR21 2MA
VR22 2MA


-
Cheers!
Mike


emdot_ambient

Sweet...I'll probably get 2 - 4 of these, got a lot of cash commitments out there right now. confused


computer controlled

Awesome!


boothnavy

yup, i'm in.


keninverse

Nice. I'm in for at the very least 2 possibly 4


reve

Two. Buy buy buy. Did I read correctly that you are taking payments now? For this and the lfo?


a.b.o.z.

I'll take one.

cheers,

Ivan


regenbot

atleast one for me, if i can afford after this flush of pcb's and panels lately.


ringstone

I guess it might be wise to wait a while after Xmas for payments to come in lol ...however Scrooge here has enough put away for 4 of these (and 4 of the LFO/Noise/S&H boards).

Cheers
Blair


reggiechacha

I'm in for 3


rosch

excellent!
i'm in for a couple too. it's a good thing that you wait a few weeks, so i have some time to figure out how many i need (ie can afford)


ach_gott

In for 2!


arsonus

1 for me please!


asb

I'll take one!


Blinkar blå

and 2 for me!


widdly

Are you going to do the external signal processor from the ms20? That would be kick arse.

The impossible to get quad ganged reverse audio pots are used in 4 different sallen key filters. I wonder if an OTA could be used instead of the variable resistors so that a normal pot could be used to change the frequency.


theabsent

I'm interested but would like to see the BOMs (rare parts?) before ordering HADSR & LFO/Noise/S&H boards.


Monobass

How difficult would it be to add CV control over each stage?


PF

Im in for 2 boards..


Dego

2 SlayerBadger!


E.A.S.

theabsent wrote:
I'm interested but would like to see the BOMs (rare parts?) before ordering HADSR & LFO/Noise/S&H boards.


no rare parts in here. all parts available from mouser or similar places.

-Mike


E.A.S.

widdly wrote:
Are you going to do the external signal processor from the ms20? That would be kick arse.

The impossible to get quad ganged reverse audio pots are used in 4 different sallen key filters. I wonder if an OTA could be used instead of the variable resistors so that a normal pot could be used to change the frequency.




I've been toying around with the idea of doing an ESP module pcb and have thought of the ota option as well. If I'm not mistaken it was talked about on the "miss 10" VCO thread. Its something I'm going to look into more.

-Mike


brother303

Hi Mike,

E.A.S. wrote:
On this board Ive also made provision on the board for different gate options.


Could you explain a little more on those gate options,please?

BTW,I´m in for 3 boards... thumbs up

Cheers
Greg


E.A.S.

brother303 wrote:
Hi Mike,

E.A.S. wrote:
On this board Ive also made provision on the board for different gate options.


Could you explain a little more on those gate options,please?

BTW,I´m in for 3 boards... thumbs up

Cheers
Greg


Hi greg,

The original HADSR requires a shorting S-trigger type of gate to pull in input low. Ive kept the original circuit the same but added a simple transistor gate convertor circuit to the input. If you want to build the circuit for modular use, as I assume most people here will, this tiny circuit will keep this circuit a little more "standard".

If you want the original circuit just leave off the extra parts and add a jumper in their place. I'll document this more when the boards come in.

-Mike


brother303

Thanks Mike,

helpful as always.

thumbs up


computer controlled

Yeah, i think i'm gonna have get a couple of these eek!


regenbot

payed 1 x "miss10" LFO, S/H and NOISE PCB and
1x "miss10" HADSR PCB.


Guinness ftw!


gwaidan

Just paid for 1 HADSR and 1 LFO/Noise...


arsonus

Paypaled for 1x LFO, S/H and NOISE PCB and 1x HADSR PCB.


brother303

Hi Mike,

payment sent for 3xHADSR.

thumbs up

Cheers
Greg


nihilist

Please put me down for
1 X HADSR
1 X white/pink noise


keninverse

Mike,
Do you happnen to have a BOM for these as well as the LFO/Noise/SH board put together?


E.A.S.

keninverse wrote:
Mike,
Do you happnen to have a BOM for these as well as the LFO/Noise/SH board put together?


Just added the (basic) BOM on the first post.

-Mike


mamonu

payed for 1 HADSR


Barcode

Payment sent for 1 x "miss10" LFO, S/H and NOISE PCB and 1 x "miss10" HADSR PCB!


theabsent

When?


E.A.S.

Quick update:
I'm doing some final touch-ups to the layout, a little clean-up, final check, and off to the pcb house it goes. I was hoping to get these out a little sooner but I want to make sure everything is perfect before they are made!

-Mike


boothnavy

paid for 4.


raisinbag

Hi there, looking at BOM and wondering if there are any resistors that need to be better than 5%, do any of the Non polarized caps need to be better than Film or ceramic and was wondering if there was a sub for the MC14007? I see mouser has it, but am trying to find as much stuff close to home as I can. Cheers.


iopop

Not sure where your home is, but a CD4007 should probably work fine. Or any other 4007 in the CMOS family.


raisinbag

snow (or not so snowy right now) white north "Canada". I can grab a 4007 near me, so I will try that when it comes time, thanks.


E.A.S.

Just a quick update:

After making adjustment to the pcb and checking over it all several times we have finally placed the order with the PCB house for both the HADSR and the noise-lfo-s/h boards!

The boards should be arriving here in a little under 2 weeks and will be shipped out to you guys shortly after!

Thanks for your patience and support!

-Mike


E.A.S.

First post updated.

These are in stock and will be shipping to those who have already paid shortly!

I will keep these in stock for anyone to order.

When I start running low I will update the first post. Otherwise these are available.

Thanks all!

-Mike


Miss 10 HADSR by itsfatmike, on Flickr


emdot_ambient

thumbs up
Woo hoo!
thumbs up


negativspace

This is 3-bacon news if I've ever heard it. It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo


aladan

1 x ordered & paid smile


E.A.S.

UPDATE:


Clean your work benh and heat up those soldering irons!!

All Paid PCB orders have been shipped!! This is fun!


-Mike

p.s. I ordered extras this time, so if you feel 'left out', its not to late to join the solder party! w00t


E.A.S.

First post updated with some wiring info!

-Mike


E.A.S.

Update: Schematic added to first post.

hurray!


demian

I want 1. w00t


E.A.S.

demian wrote:
I want 1. w00t


do it! This is fun!


brother303

Hi,

is it possible to use a CD4007 instead of a MC14007? Datasheets look similar.

Can somebody confirm this?

Thanks
Greg


E.A.S.

All paid orders are packed and will be shipping shortly!

-M


Dego

Any changes for 12 volt?


E.A.S.

Dego wrote:
Any changes for 12 volt?


Works on 12v as is.

-M


raisinbag

brother303 wrote:
Hi,

is it possible to use a CD4007 instead of a MC14007? Datasheets look similar.

Can somebody confirm this?

Thanks
Greg


Can anyone confirm that 4069 and 4007 works instead of 14069 and 14007? I am making an order and would can order the "14" versions but rather wouldn't if I can use the CD version as I have some in hand.

Cheers


ringstone

raisinbag wrote:
brother303 wrote:
Hi,

is it possible to use a CD4007 instead of a MC14007? Datasheets look similar.

Can somebody confirm this?

Thanks
Greg


Can anyone confirm that 4069 and 4007 works instead of 14069 and 14007? I am making an order and would can order the "14" versions but rather wouldn't if I can use the CD version as I have some in hand.

Cheers


I used CD4069 ok, used MC14007 though. Actually I will try and do a write up of how I wired this and how to switch between long/short envelopes soon, I've just got to get around to doing the LED indicator.

Cheers
Blair


raisinbag

Ok Ill grab the 14007 then just to be sure.

I would love to see how you did it. And ya if you figure out an LED do let us know, that would be a welcome add on.


Dego

First I tried ken stones led driver but did not get that to work then I used this from Foniks schematic:
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/woollastonadsr_147.gif

And it worked great as a LED driver. I used it directly to the output after discussing that with negativespace. He recommended using a high insensitive LED. Works good.

To mount the electrolytes I put two legs in the same hole for the chosen two electrolytes. Then I leave one leg without soldering it to the pcb on one of the electrolytes. The other electrolyte is mounted as usual. Then I solder the legs of the two electrolytes to the switch and after that I solder the leg of the second electrolyte that is not attached to the pcb with its leg to the switch.

I have built two of them smile


ringstone

Thanks, I was actually going to try Ken's circuit - I'm surprised it didn't work here. The circuit you posted is pretty similar to how I've done it before so I'll go with that. thumbs up

Cheers
Blair

EDIT: And the cap to switch for envelope length is C35 (6.8uF) - I'm using tantalums as per the original and switching between 2.2uF (short) and 10uF (long).


Dego

I used the exact same values for envelope length as you and was happy with the result. 10uF was the choice since I had no 6.8uF at home but I am happy with the result so I will not change it.


Barcode

E.A.S. wrote:

I used a dual 1M pot wired in series to get a 2M pot. like this...

dual pot by itsfatmike, on Flickr


So are all of the lugs that are tied together "c"?


E.A.S.

Barcode wrote:
E.A.S. wrote:

I used a dual 1M pot wired in series to get a 2M pot. like this...

dual pot by itsfatmike, on Flickr


So are all of the lugs that are tied together "c"?


If you look at the bottom on the pcb, you'll see that "b" and "c" are already tied together. The pot acts as a variable resistor between pads "a" and "b,c" so you need only hook-up "a" and "b" for it to operate correctly.

-M


fivesteppath

I finally powered mine up.
Question. Not sure if this is a fault of my own or part of the design. At the level given, the sustain always... sustains, even if there is no gate/trigger. Its level works fine and it does die when set to 0 though.
It was a quick test, so far the attack and decay work like expected.


E.A.S.

fivesteppath wrote:
I finally powered mine up.
Question. Not sure if this is a fault of my own or part of the design. At the level given, the sustain always... sustains, even if there is no gate/trigger. Its level works fine and it does die when set to 0 though.
It was a quick test, so far the attack and decay work like expected.



Hmm, how is the "HOLD" pot set?

The "HOLD" pot, when triggered by the gate input, will extend the gate for the amount of time set by the pot, even when the input goes low.

-M


Peake

I missed the boat on this...if anyone has one they'd let go please message me. No paypal, sorry. Sorry to intrude. Thanks for the projects Mike!


Peake

This is not a double-post, it's a shuffle beat. Or a flam. Nothing to see here.


ringstone

fivesteppath wrote:
I finally powered mine up.
Question. Not sure if this is a fault of my own or part of the design. At the level given, the sustain always... sustains, even if there is no gate/trigger. Its level works fine and it does die when set to 0 though.
It was a quick test, so far the attack and decay work like expected.


Actually, I had something similar on my first build. On mine the two 1M pots wired in series had to be wired the reverse of the pic above. So actually "Hold" was set to max, rather than min. When the power was turned on, it was causing a spurious initial trigger which kicked the hold in and caused me to think that the sustain was permanently on.

Cheers
Blair


fivesteppath

Haha, false alarm, I forgot to solder C on the dual pots. d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
Everything works as expected.


E.A.S.

ringstone wrote:
fivesteppath wrote:
I finally powered mine up.
Question. Not sure if this is a fault of my own or part of the design. At the level given, the sustain always... sustains, even if there is no gate/trigger. Its level works fine and it does die when set to 0 though.
It was a quick test, so far the attack and decay work like expected.


Actually, I had something similar on my first build. On mine the two 1M pots wired in series had to be wired the reverse of the pic above. So actually "Hold" was set to max, rather than min. When the power was turned on, it was causing a spurious initial trigger which kicked the hold in and caused me to think that the sustain was permanently on.

Cheers
Blair


ha! totally didn't notice the reverse wiring on that drawing!


E.A.S.

Here's the proper wiring of the "hold" and "attack" pots.



IMG_0458 by itsfatmike, on Flickr


fivesteppath

Ironically I soldered all of my pots backwards so I was aware of this when I was testing it.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you guys clearly.
Although 'B' & 'C' are connected on the PCB I still had to solder the 4 pin wiring to 'B' & 'C', which finally allowed me to change the level on the hold instead of a full extended gate.

And just like EAS had assured the sustain was not the issue in my case.


E.A.S.

fivesteppath wrote:
Ironically I soldered all of my pots backwards so I was aware of this when I was testing it.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you guys clearly.
Although 'B' & 'C' are connected on the PCB I still had to solder the 4 pin wiring to 'B' & 'C', which finally allowed me to change the level on the hold instead of a full extended gate.

And just like EAS had assured the sustain was not the issue in my case.


I may be misunderstanding you as well, so correct me if a am wrong.

Are you using a dual pot or a normal pot?

There only needs to 2 wires from the pot to the PCB, but you still need to jumper the pot sections in series (as drawn) w/ 3 jumpers. You dont want to wire a third wire from point "C" on the pcb to where the jumpers are. That bypasses one of the dual pot resistance elements giving you only a 1Meg pot and only half the maximum attack and hold times. if it isnt working without a third wire to the pcb, It sounds like you MAY be missing one of the three jumpers, perhaps the one joining the two pot sections together.

When you wire the dual 1M in series like this you get a 2M variable resistor between point "A" and "B".

Obviously you got it working, so this isnt a huge deal, but I wanted to make sure you had you full attack and hold time on your build!

-M


fivesteppath

E.A.S. wrote:
fivesteppath wrote:
Ironically I soldered all of my pots backwards so I was aware of this when I was testing it.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you guys clearly.
Although 'B' & 'C' are connected on the PCB I still had to solder the 4 pin wiring to 'B' & 'C', which finally allowed me to change the level on the hold instead of a full extended gate.

And just like EAS had assured the sustain was not the issue in my case.


I may be misunderstanding you as well, so correct me if a am wrong.

Are you using a dual pot or a normal pot?

There only needs to 2 wires from the pot to the PCB, but you still need to jumper the pot sections in series (as drawn) w/ 3 jumpers. You dont want to wire a third wire from point "C" on the pcb to where the jumpers are. That bypasses one of the dual pot resistance elements giving you only a 1Meg pot and only half the maximum attack and hold times. if it isnt working without a third wire to the pcb, It sounds like you MAY be missing one of the three jumpers, perhaps the one joining the two pot sections together.

When you wire the dual 1M in series like this you get a 2M variable resistor between point "A" and "B".

Obviously you got it working, so this isnt a huge deal, but I wanted to make sure you had you full attack and hold time on your build!

-M


Hahaha! Well isn't this embarrassing! I didn't have 'A' installed on the hold. w00t


e-grad

Which part changes are needed to run this board on +/-15V and to rise it's output to 10V?


E.A.S.

e-grad wrote:
Which part changes are needed to run this board on +/-15V and to rise it's output to 10V?


It was actually designed to work on +/-15v, but also works on +/-12v as well.

Its output is 10v pp, -5 to +5v centered at 0v, so you'd just need to offset the output by +5.

If I were to do it, i'd make a voltage divider, out of something like a 20k and and 10k resistor, between -15v and ground, then mix that through a 10k resistor into pin 6 of IC10.

this will only change offset the normal envelope output, the other 2 envelope outputs would remain unchanged.

you could also just run the "vca" envelope output through a gain stage of 2.

hope this helps!

-Mike


e-grad

Thanks! w00t


flts

Resurrecting this thread for a stupid question as well.

I'm close to ready with building a little Miss10 standalone semimodular and just installed a MIDImplant MIDI/CV which puts out gates close to supply voltage (in this case +15V). Will I kill the HADSR (v1) if I feed it that kind of gate voltages - should I voltage divide the MIDI/CV gate outputs to around +5V to be safe or should voltages up to V+ be OK?

As for that matter, will I kill any other Miss10 module if I accidentally feed it something close to +15VDC?


Dimitree

Since the pot model I want to use is not offered in 2MA variant or double 1MA, I'd like to use 1MA instead of 2MA.
How should I compensate it to achieve the same envelope times as the original?


E.A.S.

Dimitree wrote:
Since the pot model I want to use is not offered in 2MA variant or double 1MA, I'd like to use 1MA instead of 2MA.
How should I compensate it to achieve the same envelope times as the original?


if you are using a 1M pot, you are going to have about half of the MAXIMUM envelope time.

you can add a range switch to double that time by switching in an equal value timing cap in parallel. ( in fact, theres a hole for a "fast/slow" switch on the negativespac panel for this very option)

That should get ya a little closer.

-M


flts

I bought some surplus 2MA pots from a small UK family run store via internet, pretty big bodies (24mm+) but they work fine.

FWIW for my previous question, I ended up just adding voltage dividers to the gate outs so they spit out roughly +5 to +6v. Works fine.

Already posted on DIY builds 2014 thread but here's the end result for all the Miss10 PCBs I had (except Mindreader which I haven't built inside that thing yet): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l8a3ei8wlx5ujlv/AAB5pkcENfAgrzxa8PMS6u8Aa


Dimitree

E.A.S. wrote:
Dimitree wrote:
Since the pot model I want to use is not offered in 2MA variant or double 1MA, I'd like to use 1MA instead of 2MA.
How should I compensate it to achieve the same envelope times as the original?


if you are using a 1M pot, you are going to have about half of the MAXIMUM envelope time.

you can add a range switch to double that time by switching in an equal value timing cap in parallel. ( in fact, theres a hole for a "fast/slow" switch on the negativespac panel for this very option)

That should get ya a little closer.

-M


thanks, but what if I directly put that cap in parallel, without a switch? I would get the original maximum times, without sacrifying anything?


woodster

So, after waiting 8 months for the HADSR PCB I'm now informed that I won't be getting one.
As a consequence I have a HADSR Euro panel from Negativespace going if anybody needs one.
It originally cost me $26 inc shipping from the US to the UK.


Isaiah

woodster
How come, if you don't mind me asking?

I ordered the VCO, VCF/VCA and LFO/S&H/Noise PCBs recently (they arrived yesterday).
I was going to order a HADSR too, but was told by Mike that he was working on getting them back in stock but the time frame was uncertain.
Hopefully sooner rather than later.


woodster

Hey Isaiah,

It's as you say, although I was offered a refund, as Mike couldn't say when they might ever appear again.
He did kindly offer me an alternative and an extra, but sadly the only miss10 item I have a ready Euro panel for is the one I won't get.
I ordered the LFO/S&H/Noise, and the HADSR PCB's on the 24th of November last year, haven't seen anything as of yet, although Mike has told me he posted something recently.


negativspace

I might have a spare HADSR board in my stash, I'll go through it and see...


woodster

Hey Jason,
Many thanks for the offer, but I have a HADSR panel, but now not getting the PCB, so I'm happy to move it on to somebody who has the PCB but not the Panel.
I'd be very keen to grab any other Miss10 panels from you (VCO/VCF and LFO) if you have any spares ?


Isaiah

negativspace
Jason, I'm looking to buy a HADSR board if you have a spare one, please.


woodster

Oh bugger, I thought Jason meant the panel...


negativspace

No spares... I have a few VCO boards but nothing else. sad banana


Isaiah

woodster
Ah, sorry. I wouldn't have asked if I thought you were interested.
Looks like we're both out of luck!

negativspace
Thanks for checking!


woodster

Hey,
No bother Isiah.
I've been working in the sun far too much this week, it's rendered me stupid. Reading board as meaning panel ffs hihi


negativspace

Well, to be fair a panel is a board... made of metal, with big holes. hihi

FWIW I do have 3 HADSR panels left, in case anyone with a PCB needs one. Seems it's the PCB that's in demand, though.


iopop

I should have one spare HADSR PCB available.

However, all my diy stuff is in storage boxes for a month more until we move to a new house and we have a newborn at home.

But if any of you want to wait until September I'll happy send the board for $18.

EDIT: The spare I have is version 1.


Sittidae

Can anyone tell me the differences between version 1 and 2 of the hadsr pcb?


sonicwarrior

E.A.S. wrote:
Id really like to restock the HADSR as well, but unfortunately, there doesn't really seem to be much interest in it right now. (personally, I think its quite unique and awesome!)

I see it has a MOTM power connector:
If it helps I'm interested in 2.


Isaiah

sonicwarrior
I believe this is the V1.0 PCB.
The most recent (and currently unavailable) PCB is the smaller V2.0.
I think it only has a Eurorack power connection.

I'd be interested in a V2.0 HADSR PCB to go with the other Miss10 PCBs I have (1 VCO, 1 VCF/VCA, 1 LFO/S&H/Noise.)
But I fear I'll lose interest and sell my Miss10 PCBs to fund other projects before the HADSR PCB is available again (if it ever is.)

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