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thesnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:38 am    Post subject: jomox or elektron and why Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm looking for a hardware drum machine again, used to have some electribes, thinking about jomox 888/999 or elektron rytm... would like to make fairly harsh beats and pounding kicks... which would advise me to get and why maybe? thanks...
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tuj
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd say the RYTM. More creative sound sculpting and better sequencer.
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deltaphoenix
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would say the same, AR. The OD and other gain staging can get to a harsh sound and the AR has several routes to pounding kicks.
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h4ndcrafted
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd say consider the raw starting blocks. I have a love hate with my RYTM at the moment.

The seq up coming Overbridge and editor editor etc is top notch.
Love the filters , nice over drive, not so keen on the comp. you have to stage everything well otherwise it can get flat sounding quickly.

Thing is the raw sound is hit and miss for me. I find whatever machine I use for the kick it has more bass than punch. Tried sweeping the filter both hi and low it always end up sounding big, but pretty crappy in a mix , forever notching out 150, not much definition like you instantly get with some other boxes.

Snare can sound amazing with a hi pass sweep. Toms ok , clap doesn't get that snappy for me.
Hi hats are need loads of texture added , sound very pissy raw.

I'm sure you can do amazing things with it, but I'm prob going to sell for a Acidlab Drumatix , but most likely mutant drums and tiptop CR seq, which was the original idea.
The fm stuff I wanted to be great, but wasn't that taken.

Part due to lack of skill, maybe, but I'm yet to hear any demos that change my opinion either. I'm sure that Richard guy is doing amazing things with it
hihi

Listen to the demos of the Acidlab Drumatix , not dynamic , but instant goodness.
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sauflesautres
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've been using my XBase 999 for 5 years. It sounds really powerful but the range of sound is likely more limited than the Rytm.

I love its sounds but it's a quirky machine. Accent does not work on toms, filter routing screen for toms has the low and high tom inverted, send too much midi data to it and it freaks out, my panning settings always reset when i turn it on and the lcd sometimes displays hidden functionality (that i have not tried since it seems for OS updates) when cancelling out of some menus.

The Jomox support is difficult to deal with as well. You might want to search the analog heaven mailing list archive as there was many posts about this recently.

The machine is great fun, the whole thing sounds fantastic, the timing is rock solid (i measured it) but i think the Rytm is most likely easier to live with.

I have not tried the Rytm but i also have a MachineDrum and i find it easier to deal with than the XBase 999.
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vasculator
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

another vote for the Rytm. i've gotten some really 'pounding' kicks from the 'classic bd' engine. layering samples takes it to the next level. my jomox airbase and bug drm1 samples live quite happily in it (along w/ every other kick drum sample i like).
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CF3
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jomox for the sound. Elektron for the features. If only the two companies would merge into Elektromox. (or Jotron) Every Elektron box I've bought I ended up selling after awhile cause I didn't like sound. Alternatively, I love the sound of any of the Jomox units but, they're not the most intuitive machines and customer service sucks. I know it's not the easiest thing but, try to demo before you buy if at all possible.
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Hi5
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

CF3 wrote:
Jomox for the sound. Elektron for the features.


Jomox does have some quirks though I've not experienced too many but compared to the Elektron boxes the workflow is not a fluid. That said, the Jomox 999 sounds incredible and has more punch than the Elektrons. Not a sound designers box like the Rytm but that was one thing I disliked about the MD when I had it. I spent more time making sounds than beats.

If you want more design capabilities and better workflow go with the Rytm. You want a banging drum machine that does its limited sound set really well go with the Jomox.

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Hi5
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

duped
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Goiks: A eurorack setup is a contemporary folk instrument. Relatively accessible and portable. Largely by, of and for the people
Danjel: ... it is better to have a precise VCO and then deconstruct/modify/modulate it any way that you want. This way you are starting with predictable behavior as the foundation.


Last edited by Hi5 on Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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barto
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

love the RYTM. being able to play with samples and all of the performance/scene settings is so much fun
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RustyO
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

CF3 wrote:
Jomox for the sound. Elektron for the features.


thumbs up Pretty muh my viewpoint as well, especially MD vs 999. If you have both, use tracks 1-8 on the MD for intenral, tracks 9-16 for the 999, It's motherfucking bacon yo

Haven't had enough flight time on the Rytm to really comment too much.

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thesnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

thanks everyone, this is all really helpful.

what are some of the main difficulties that the jomox boxes produce while using them? do they have to do with programming, saving and things like that?

or are there functions that are supposed to work but don't 100% and things like that etc?
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tIB
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Interface on jomox stuff is counter intuitive for me, elektron intuitive. That said my airbase gets way more hammer for drum sounds than my machinedrum, which I tend to use for glitchy clicky live sampling wierd stuff.
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sauflesautres
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

thesnow wrote:
thanks everyone, this is all really helpful.

what are some of the main difficulties that the jomox boxes produce while using them? do they have to do with programming, saving and things like that?

or are there functions that are supposed to work but don't 100% and things like that etc?


See my post above. No accent on toms, unless someone tells me this works, all i've read on the net is that it does not work. I had 2 different units as well. Plus all the other stuff i wrote before.

Also when using the screens mapped to the 16 step buttons, it's weird. Say you enter panning menu then decide to press the master button which shows another screen. The OS still thinks you're in the panning page even if it displays something else. I now have muscle memory and always cancel to get out of a menu before doing something else. This might annoy some people quite a bit.

One more thing is that doing parameter locks works in a strange way. If you really get into this box you can copy parameters from one step to another, you can make melodies out of synth samples and it could be enough for sparse and pounding techno.

I really love the sound of it though and the 8-bit samples are crisp and punchy.

I got my XBase years before getting an MD and when i first got the MD i thought "wow this is so easy to use"...
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thesnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

sauflesautres wrote:
thesnow wrote:
thanks everyone, this is all really helpful.

what are some of the main difficulties that the jomox boxes produce while using them? do they have to do with programming, saving and things like that?

or are there functions that are supposed to work but don't 100% and things like that etc?


See my post above. No accent on toms, unless someone tells me this works, all i've read on the net is that it does not work. I had 2 different units as well. Plus all the other stuff i wrote before.

Also when using the screens mapped to the 16 step buttons, it's weird. Say you enter panning menu then decide to press the master button which shows another screen. The OS still thinks you're in the panning page even if it displays something else. I now have muscle memory and always cancel to get out of a menu before doing something else. This might annoy some people quite a bit.

One more thing is that doing parameter locks works in a strange way. If you really get into this box you can copy parameters from one step to another, you can make melodies out of synth samples and it could be enough for sparse and pounding techno.

I really love the sound of it though and the 8-bit samples are crisp and punchy.

I got my XBase years before getting an MD and when i first got the MD i thought "wow this is so easy to use"...


thanks, I did read your comment, I was just trying to ask about other basic bugs or annoyances, I guess trying to figure out if the bugs are things that would restrain my use of the machine, which would basically be basic programming, song structure programming, and sound tweaking to create aggressive rhythmic sounds...

thanks again

a shame the machine has such bugs, looks and sounds like such a great machine
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thesnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I guess another thing that sort of worries me is the elektron machines having a too much of a generic sound, which I've heard about, and I wonder if they would be too identifiable or generic sounding in a mix, whereas the jomox might be more obscure, mysterious sounding or less identifiable right away in the mix...
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sauflesautres
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

thesnow wrote:

thanks, I did read your comment, I was just trying to ask about other basic bugs or annoyances, I guess trying to figure out if the bugs are things that would restrain my use of the machine, which would basically be basic programming, song structure programming, and sound tweaking to create aggressive rhythmic sounds...

thanks again

a shame the machine has such bugs, looks and sounds like such a great machine


Didn't know you had read all the comments. Didn't want to sound harsh, i'm sorry if it was the case.

I went through my notes and did not find anything else that annoyed me. Maybe i'll remember something else. Feel free to ask specific questions, i can't access my unit right now but could check stuff this weekend if i can't answer.

I really love mine but i think the Rytm is much more versatile. I'm currently wondering if i should sell some of my gear and stick with a few elektron boxes. Or jump head first into eurorack (and spend all my money on modules for the rest of my life razz)
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sauflesautres
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

thesnow wrote:
I guess another thing that sort of worries me is the elektron machines having a too much of a generic sound, which I've heard about, and I wonder if they would be too identifiable or generic sounding in a mix, whereas the jomox might be more obscure, mysterious sounding or less identifiable right away in the mix...


I used both the MD and XBase 999 together for making tracks for a while. I added an Acidlab Bassline and a Sidstation to this.

My opinion:
The Jomox kick sounds wonderful. The snare is like a 909 snare. The toms are not very editable but you can abuse the lfos on them. I even managed to get some clap/snap out of the toms by downpitching them super low and using the individual step shuffle so they played very close to another. The 8-bit samples going through the filter have plenty of character.

The MD, i still have not learned a lot of the different synth machines in there. I did get some great sounds out of it. I can't comment on the Rytm but it seems super powerful.

The Elektrons have built-in effects and can play samples (MD UW and Rytm). MD can resample stuff live and has very flexible filters. They don't scream like the Jomox but i love them.

The Rytm seems to be able to mess with sample loop points or something like that (i'm not sure). This can let you create lots of nice textures.

I wouldn't worry that Elektrons sound more generic. Jomox machines can be mistaken for any sort of 909-ish machine since they are heavily inspired from the 909.

If you could try the machines, it would be great. You'd find out which one is more fun for you.
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thesnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

sauflesautres wrote:


Didn't know you had read all the comments. Didn't want to sound harsh, i'm sorry if it was the case.



not at all
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thesnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

sauflesautres wrote:
thesnow wrote:
I guess another thing that sort of worries me is the elektron machines having a too much of a generic sound, which I've heard about, and I wonder if they would be too identifiable or generic sounding in a mix, whereas the jomox might be more obscure, mysterious sounding or less identifiable right away in the mix...


I used both the MD and XBase 999 together for making tracks for a while. I added an Acidlab Bassline and a Sidstation to this.

My opinion:
The Jomox kick sounds wonderful. The snare is like a 909 snare. The toms are not very editable but you can abuse the lfos on them. I even managed to get some clap/snap out of the toms by downpitching them super low and using the individual step shuffle so they played very close to another. The 8-bit samples going through the filter have plenty of character.

The MD, i still have not learned a lot of the different synth machines in there. I did get some great sounds out of it. I can't comment on the Rytm but it seems super powerful.

The Elektrons have built-in effects and can play samples (MD UW and Rytm). MD can resample stuff live and has very flexible filters. They don't scream like the Jomox but i love them.

The Rytm seems to be able to mess with sample loop points or something like that (i'm not sure). This can let you create lots of nice textures.

I wouldn't worry that Elektrons sound more generic. Jomox machines can be mistaken for any sort of 909-ish machine since they are heavily inspired from the 909.

If you could try the machines, it would be great. You'd find out which one is more fun for you.


Awesome, thanks for the detailed description
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sauflesautres
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you have not looked at the Jomox manual, it is on their website. I recommend looking at it. You can learn a lot about the machine this way.
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thesnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've read that the manual is super frustrating possibly having to do with english not being "jomox's" first language...
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thesnow
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

wanted to ask a general question, from the look of it the jomox controls are more immediate, they are labeled so the knobs are dedicated controls, whereas the elektron controls look like you have menu dig to assign something to them so the controls aren't as immediate... am i right and does this get in the way of work flow working with elektrons? thanks
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tIB
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

My experience of the jomox interface is that it doesnt work like you think it should- ie it looks immediate but isnt really (in terms of the sequencer side of things- the sounds themselves are one knob per function in general).

Jomox sequencer is clunky, the elektron more fluid but you have to scroll through more on the elektron as controls for sound generation are shared. MDUW is a much deeper machine, the jomox is better sounding for bread and butter analogue drum stuff. I like having both, albeit in the form of MDUW and airbase- a good compromise.

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Hi5
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

thesnow wrote:
wanted to ask a general question, from the look of it the jomox controls are more immediate, they are labeled so the knobs are dedicated controls, whereas the elektron controls look like you have menu dig to assign something to them so the controls aren't as immediate... am i right and does this get in the way of work flow working with elektrons? thanks


Not exactly. All the encoders on the left side have specific functions for each drum voice but when you change the drum voice you are currently working on different encoders will be available. For example, the kick drum has the most parameters so almost all the encoders control a given parameter where as the hi-hat voice has only 6 in use.

I've had all the Elektron boxes at this point and are very comfortable with their workflow so when getting the Jomox it was a bit of an adjustment. I mainly just use the Performance mode and when it comes to parameter lock type functionality the Jomox can do this but it is not anywhere as easy or as functional as the Elektron devices. I do prefer the Elektron workflow overall.

As stated already, I find the Jomox to be the best sounding drum machine I've come across and being able to load your own samples adds a very pleasant grit to them. Definitely limited in scope especially when compared to the Rytm or MD for range of sounds and design possibilities but if you are ok with some of its quirks it is a very rewarding machine.

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Goiks: A eurorack setup is a contemporary folk instrument. Relatively accessible and portable. Largely by, of and for the people
Danjel: ... it is better to have a precise VCO and then deconstruct/modify/modulate it any way that you want. This way you are starting with predictable behavior as the foundation.
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