Fun with CMOS

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felix
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Fun with CMOS

Post by felix » Wed May 13, 2009 4:33 pm

So, unless some unexpected bullshit comes up, I'm going to spend much of this Saturday finally putting together some CMOS noise makers inspired by what I read in the Nicolas Collins book, Handmade Electronic Music.

Aside from the basic examples in the book, which I already understand quite well at this point, even without making any, does anyone have any other fun configurations/schemos/ideas to play around with?

I've got a descent supply (about 10 each) of:
CD40106
CD4093 (edited - before it was "4039", which doesn't exist apparently)
CD4040
CD4049

Plus various sizes of caps, resistors, pots, and switches. The only thing I don't have any of are vactrols. Depending on what I come up with over the weekend, I'll probably order at least a handful to try in place of pots/resistors.

Thanks guys!
Last edited by felix on Thu May 14, 2009 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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felix
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Post by felix » Wed May 13, 2009 4:36 pm

Oh yeah, I'm particularly interested in stuff utilizing the 4040 divider/counter.

The basic frequency/clock dividing is mentioned in the Collins book, but I'm curious if anyone has done some basic sequencers or other fancy shit with it. I'd like to maybe confirm that what I'm thinking of in my head is not wildly off track. I guess I'll find out on Saturday either way :party:
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felix
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Post by felix » Wed May 13, 2009 4:41 pm

:eek:
BugBrand wrote:Oh & here's a useful MFOS page:
http://musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/mmlogic.html
Cheers Tom! :party:
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Post by DGTom » Wed May 13, 2009 4:51 pm

Read all the threads in the e-m sub forum felix! Great stuff inside!!!
Once you are done, there are a metric shit tonne of schems here;

http://deathlehem.com/php/index.php

in the modules section :party:

also;

http://milkcrate.com.au/_other/sea-moss/

This one is cool & kind of a riff on the Collins stuff;

http://hackaday.com/2008/05/01/how-to-m ... nthesizer/

same as this one;

http://misusage.org/wordpress/?p=23

&

http://www.doctronics.co.uk/beastie_zone.htm

is cool as well :D


I will be getting stuck into this,

Image

over the weekend! Will be picking up some more parts tonight - yellow & green nanners & I may grab a big bag of 9mm pots to squeeze more stuff in!

This;

Image

has been living on my breadboard,

Image

... for a little while & will be module #2 I think.

CMOS is :goo: :goo: :goo:

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Re: Fun with CMOS

Post by DGTom » Wed May 13, 2009 5:08 pm

felix wrote:I've got a descent supply (about 10 each) of:
CD40106
CD4039
CD4040
CD4049
Whats the 4039? Did a search for the datasheet & didn't find anything.

The 4049 is cool, can make 3 OSCs / LFOs. I have a schem for a few things that use it, it has a wierd pinout tho so one to watch out for.
felix wrote:Plus various sizes of caps, resistors, pots, and switches. The only thing I don't have any of are vactrols. Depending on what I come up with over the weekend, I'll probably order at least a handful to try in place of pots/resistors.
I have had success with home made vactrols so far in my CMOS experiments. The drawing I posted above uses 2 LDRs with 2 LEDs, still trying to figure a way to roll them into a light proof enclosure, may need to black goop em.

Got a really cool "3 voice" NAND VCO on the breadboard at the moment, I will try to make a schemo tonight - my Eagle skills are lacking but you gotta learn somehow huh!?

Its a very cool, mettalic sounding oscillator with linear pitch in & 2 pots for freq. feeding some NAND gates.. Put thru the Doepfer LPG makes very cool 'metal' bass sounds :D

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Post by johnnymad » Wed May 13, 2009 6:21 pm

here are some of my projects from nic collins' book. fun stuff!!

74C14 synth

4040 synth

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Post by fluxmonkey » Wed May 13, 2009 6:58 pm

the blog from a workshop i did last year, based on Nic's book: http://fluxplayshop.blogspot.com/

bbob
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BUILDER FOR HIRE - kits or custom, email me with your needs

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Post by felix » Wed May 13, 2009 8:13 pm

Thanks guys, this really gives me a lot to go over tonight when I get home.

@DGTom - the 4039 is a "hex inverting buffer". I don't know exactly what that means, but it can be used to make lofi fuzz and distortion, which was my original intention for buying it (another example from the Collins book). I listed it because I didn't know if it had more synth-specific uses too.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
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Post by felix » Thu May 14, 2009 1:03 am

felix wrote:@DGTom - the 4039 is a "hex inverting buffer". I don't know exactly what that means, but it can be used to make lofi fuzz and distortion, which was my original intention for buying it (another example from the Collins book). I listed it because I didn't know if it had more synth-specific uses too.
Oh wait, I'm an idiot. It's a 4049. I also have 4093. Damn dyslexia.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
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Post by DGTom » Thu May 14, 2009 3:03 am

:hihi:

4093 is a cool chip! The NAND synth I posted uses that one I think.

Dang! I knew I forgot a great link this morning, my head feels as tho it is filled with gap filler as I've been infected by the morons at work who are doing their best to cultivate a new flu virus - no matter how much I spray everything with anti-bac.

http://www.fluxmonkey.com/electronoize/

:hail:

thankyou so much for that fine resource fluxmonkey, I went thru step by step after I got the Lunetta bug & learnt alot! Great layout & explanations all the way :D

& how could I forget the most usefull of all;

http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/

datasheets generally include small ccts. very often oscillators as part of the explanation of the chip - a great place to start / get ideas.

A really cool CMOS chip for making VCOs - as opposed to just oscillators - is the CD4007, which is basically a grip of N & P channel transistors, for the all important CV input... V/Octave need not apply!

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Post by BugBrand » Thu May 14, 2009 3:32 am

fluxmonkey wrote:the blog from a workshop i did last year, based on Nic's book: http://fluxplayshop.blogspot.com/

bbob
Great stuff bbob! Looks righty fun!

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Post by ignatzthemouse » Thu May 14, 2009 5:59 am

I really enjoyed Collins book. Almost everything in it is well chosen, fun and usable.

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Post by flight » Thu May 14, 2009 8:19 am

What, no WSG suggestion yet?
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Post by gde » Thu May 14, 2009 6:06 pm

also... to make any of those CMOS circuits voltage controllable
either use a switch to replace the battery/power supply with the CV signal (the CV signal will power the circuit) use a diode if youll use negative CV

or build a basic DC mixer to sum the CV with an offset

ive posted about this trick on various places before but will give it a nice post on my blog some time soon (been meaning to do so for maybe a year...)

its really nice to make psycho-lfo type circuits and control all 6 components with a voltage or to have 4-6 seperate clocks with a master control or make a "big phatty drone" and voltage control that... etc etc

it is a wonky trick and success varies with each circuit/chip but the 4093 and 40106 love this


after you get bored of those chips try getting some 4046 PLL VCOs a lot of fun can be had with this tasty chip
LOL

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Post by RF » Thu May 14, 2009 6:11 pm

CMOS! Get ready for some good fun!

Ditto Drofset - The Lunetta forum at EM and http://deathlehem.com/php/index.php

bruce
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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Thu May 14, 2009 7:37 pm

hhmmmm... making me wonder if i've got any useful cmos chips buried amongst my mess??? :hmm: i'll have to come back to this thread when time permits. :bang:

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Post by felix » Thu May 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Thanks guys, for all the additional links and info!

I've already started perusing the electro-music Lunetta subforum and Dethlehem (awesome name btw).

I think I'm getting ahead of myself a bit. I need to see what comes out of my experimentation on Saturday before I put my head any further down the rabbit hole. It certainly seems like quite a lot of amazing things are possible with the CMOS family; way more than I expected.
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Post by RF » Thu May 14, 2009 11:50 pm

Here's a few samples what I've been doing with the Lunetta pictured above....
This is just short bits of 5 different self playing patches.

bruce
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Post by felix » Sat May 16, 2009 8:21 pm

Well, the first day has been a lot of fun. It was really nice (if not a little too much on the hot side) so I decided to work outside. It actually has the most amount of free space and lighting ;)
Image

I warmed up with the 40106 and making multiple little oscillators and experimented mixing them in various ways. I found that combining resistor and diode mixing to give me the most pleasing results.

In this clip, I have three oscillators, two of which are being mixed by 10k resistors, and the last (the slower one) mixed to the other two via a diode.
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Post by RF » Sat May 16, 2009 9:25 pm

Good stuff, felix!
Do you feel yourself being pulled into it yet?
Shift register + R/2R ladder + 40106 VCO = CMOS Nirvana 8_)

bruce
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Post by DGTom » Sat May 16, 2009 9:45 pm

:goo:

CMOS chips are kind of like little modules in themselves & (I've found) also highly addictive!

+1 for working outside, except for me its just that one wall of the shed was removed ages ago, so its only half outside... & not sunny, its kind of raining :hihi:

I have the panels ready for the first few modules of my Lunetta. Still waiting on some odd bits & pieces to finish them off, so yesterday I started tinkering with some more ideas :party:

Passive LPGs FTW!

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Post by felix » Sun May 17, 2009 2:21 pm

RF wrote:Good stuff, felix!
Do you feel yourself being pulled into it yet?
Shift register + R/2R ladder + 40106 VCO = CMOS Nirvana 8_)

bruce
I do, yes! I'm going to have to pickup some more chips, I already have some ideas using the 4017/sequencer arrangement and the shift register sounds interesting as well. Gating and clocking are my next intended areas of exploration.
DGTom wrote::goo:

CMOS chips are kind of like little modules in themselves & (I've found) also highly addictive!
Yeah totally, that's exactly how I felt yesterday, "patching" on the breadboard. I'm certainly being drawn less to making specific modules with the CMOS designs and instead making something allowing patch configurations between chips, as if you were working almost directly with the breadboard.

For example, I had a lot of fun yesterday mixing together various outputs from the 4040 clocked by one schmitt trigger from the 40106. By mixing some of the 4040's outputs with combinations of resistors and diodes, you can get some wildly different tonal variations. Everything from rhythmic gating, all the ways up to thick ring-moded like sounds. So my thought was to have the 4040 outputs be patch points on a panel, and then have a 4 (or more) input mixer on the panel; with certain inputs being diodes, and certain ones being resistors. That way you can patch how you want the oscillator to sound. Stuff like that.
DGTom wrote:Passive LPGs FTW!
What? Please elaborate! :goo:
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Post by DGTom » Sun May 17, 2009 4:55 pm

"patching" on the breadboard! Its good to spend alot of time doing that :D (I keep telling myself) But after lots of it I've decided to backburner some of the more complex stuff in favour of some 'Chip modules' - I have to get some of this stuff off the breadboard so I can move on to the next step, but they sound so cool! :help:

The passive LPG is just a half assed idea at the moment, it works;

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/252415/40106 ... 0test1.mp3

(after the fade out, first part is a real LPG)

the 5mm LEDs didn't work as well as I'd hoped, but I maybe did find a cool way to make a crude Analog to Digital convertor. The real issue, in that clip, is the 'thump' created by the LDR when the LED spikes, I have had a little success with a HPF to clean it up but thats as far as I've got & now I'm starting to think an op-amp (or 2) is really needed to keep the signal strong thru the passive parts.

I just scored a bag of 50 LDRs of fleaBay for 10 bucks, so plenty of homemade vactrols to play with :D

You've got me thinking tho. How cool would a passive little mixer be, with a switch on each channel to select either resistor or diode or or maybe two seperate outputs - one resistor mixed & one diode. hhhhmmmm.

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Post by RF » Sun May 17, 2009 8:06 pm

You might consider the use of a CD4066 to make some of those switching duties patchable and automatic.

I've played with this a bit on a few Lunetta circuits... and will probably have at least one of these configured as a 4 input mixer and another as a source switch in my next machine.

bruce
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