Imaginary system #2 (for fun!)

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Roycie Roller
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Imaginary system #2 (for fun!)

Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:19 am

I've been thinking about what modules i would order for my 2nd Wiard when my finances are ok, and have pretty much decided on this-

2 Waveform City's
2 Mixolators
1 Borg Filter(s)
1 Sequantizer

(& a 1v/oct keyboard)



I love old digital 8-bit wavetable synths that had analogue VCF's (eg. PPG Waves, Ensoniq ESQ-1/SQ-80)- this setup could cover what those synths could do, plus much more!


Though there's no Envelator or Wogglebug, i think i could cover what i liked to use both of them for quite well- subtle settings on the Wogglebug were excellent for introducing slight 'problems' to the sound eg. chewing tape. The EG's in the Borgs & WC's, combined with the processing of the Mixolators could cover this, i think.


And the Sequantizer should easily replace my favourite use for the Envelator, which was cycling an 8-bit waveform to emulate an 8-bit drum machine. Except where the pattern was pretty much set on the Envelator, it is free on the Sequantizer meaning it can be a true drum machine.



Does anyone use a similar setup, or the same modules for a similar purpose?


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sandyb

Post by sandyb » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:08 pm

interesting setup matt.

what's the reason for the borgs rather than an omni? because it's a dual module?

2 waveform cities would be fun. i have one at the moment but i do have two miniwaves as well which i use into the wiard system quite a lot.

i think i could probably live without an envelator if i had to but not the wogglebug!

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Post by chamomileshark » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:39 pm

I love the sound of the PPG also.

I've used the sequantizer to dial up particular waves in a sequence. You can use the quantised output for pitch and unquantised output for picking the wave you want.
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:18 pm

sandyb wrote:interesting setup matt.

what's the reason for the borgs rather than an omni? because it's a dual module?

2 waveform cities would be fun. i have one at the moment but i do have two miniwaves as well which i use into the wiard system quite a lot.

i think i could probably live without an envelator if i had to but not the wogglebug!

cheers sandy :)

i forgot about the Omni. But the Borgs would be great because those 8-bit waves sound great through LPG's.

As much as i love the Wogglebug, i could live without the audio-rate vco's, plus i have a diy one which is circuit bent to the bejeesus.

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Post by Roycie Roller » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:48 am

chamomileshark wrote:I love the sound of the PPG also.

I've used the sequantizer to dial up particular waves in a sequence. You can use the quantised output for pitch and unquantised output for picking the wave you want.

That sounds interesting :)

Normally scanning through waves is a bit too chaotic for me- i prefer one wave cycling and shaping it with an EG. You can get really close to drum sounds this way, though you'd need more sequencers/waves for polyphonic drums.

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Post by plord » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:09 pm

Roycie Roller wrote:i forgot about the Omni. But the Borgs would be great because those 8-bit waves sound great through LPG's.
Also, remember that the Omni sums to mono on the output, even though it has a 4-way input mixer (well, 4 inputs with level knobs for 1-2 and 3-4). The Borg will let you go crazy with teh stereoz PLUS gives you two LFOs.

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Post by chamomileshark » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:23 pm

Roycie Roller wrote:
chamomileshark wrote:I love the sound of the PPG also.

I've used the sequantizer to dial up particular waves in a sequence. You can use the quantised output for pitch and unquantised output for picking the wave you want.

That sounds interesting :)

Normally scanning through waves is a bit too chaotic for me- i prefer one wave cycling and shaping it with an EG. You can get really close to drum sounds this way, though you'd need more sequencers/waves for polyphonic drums.
I must admit I sort of cheat a bit. I tend to sequence via cubase for the pitch information and I then use the Cubase clock divided down appropriately so that I can drive the sequantizer - that was I can pick exactly which waves I want for each note.
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

Pastoral Music: Mark Ellery Griffiths
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Norman_Phay

Post by Norman_Phay » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:35 pm

The envelopes on the WC modules are AR ones don't forget, to get a tighy, percussive sound you will need to feed them a v short/transient pulse to trigger them. If I were contemplating a set such as the one you describe I would consider add ing a small row of Blacet modules, specifically a couple of EG1s, they play so nicely with the Wiard modules that you'd think they were designed to do so. I'm working out a dual EG1 300-sized panel ATM.

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Post by Roycie Roller » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:02 pm

Norman_Phay wrote:The envelopes on the WC modules are AR ones don't forget, to get a tighy, percussive sound you will need to feed them a v short/transient pulse to trigger them. If I were contemplating a set such as the one you describe I would consider add ing a small row of Blacet modules, specifically a couple of EG1s, they play so nicely with the Wiard modules that you'd think they were designed to do so. I'm working out a dual EG1 300-sized panel ATM.

I'd love to see that panel when it's done :)

I think instead of a Blacet rack, i'd start a 2nd row of 300's- which would include 2 Envelators.

When i had my original system, i often wondered what could be done with 2 of a certain module, especially the Mixolator, Waveform City & Envelator. I imagine there's stuff that's possible that one couldn't dream up in a million years without having the modules in front of them.

I always wanted to try making a voltage controlled delay with 2 Envelators, by having both as ADSR's and mixing & scaling the stages together & through a Mixolator. I think it would work :hmm:
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Post by Roycie Roller » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:23 pm

chamomileshark wrote:
Roycie Roller wrote:
chamomileshark wrote:I love the sound of the PPG also.

I've used the sequantizer to dial up particular waves in a sequence. You can use the quantised output for pitch and unquantised output for picking the wave you want.

That sounds interesting :)

Normally scanning through waves is a bit too chaotic for me- i prefer one wave cycling and shaping it with an EG. You can get really close to drum sounds this way, though you'd need more sequencers/waves for polyphonic drums.
I must admit I sort of cheat a bit. I tend to sequence via cubase for the pitch information and I then use the Cubase clock divided down appropriately so that I can drive the sequantizer - that was I can pick exactly which waves I want for each note.


That's great- i didn't realise it was possible to do that & always thought you'd be bound to the order in which the waves were written to the eprom. If you wanted to really specific, you could program eproms specifically for sequencing...or, ones to be used with the Sequantizer at audio rate, for chords, strange scales, etc. Arpeggiation also, maybe?


The possibilities are endless! This is why i love the Wiard- it's self-contained & limited, with nothing that is superfluous to music making, but at the same time open-ended with so many possibilities in what it can do.
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Post by chamomileshark » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:09 am

Roycie Roller wrote: That's great- i didn't realise it was possible to do that & always thought you'd be bound to the order in which the waves were written to the eprom.
The wave select is under VC control, so with the sequantiser can be used to pick those waves out specifically.
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

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Norman_Phay

Post by Norman_Phay » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:26 pm

Roycie Roller wrote:
me! wrote: I'm working out a dual EG1 300-sized panel ATM.

I'd love to see that panel when it's done :)
Take a look at progress so far :D

I'm trying to make an art nouveau overlay so it won't look plain compared to the proper Wiard modules. Tricky.
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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:15 pm

Norman_Phay wrote:
Roycie Roller wrote:
me! wrote: I'm working out a dual EG1 300-sized panel ATM.

I'd love to see that panel when it's done :)
Take a look at progress so far :D

I'm trying to make an art nouveau overlay so it won't look plain compared to the proper Wiard modules. Tricky.

Hi Norman, is that file a video? I can't get it to open on my computer using a few different programs- what program are you using?

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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:08 am

Or,,,


3 Waveform Cities
3 Mixolators



This would be an amazing synth, a bit like a modular PPG Wave or modular Crosswave (Ensoniq ESQ-1, sQ80)


My reason for 3 WC's & 3 Mixolators is that i really love how emotive 8-bit waveforms can sound, and with these modules i could build up 'choirs' or chords through mixing & ring modulating waves from all 3 WC's. This would give maybe 10 copies of the original at different pitches, not including the mults on the WC's or any of the analogue waves, or any cv :woah:

No filter might seem strange, but i never had a filter in my first system and usually don't use them in my DIY synth.
I hate filter sweeps & resonance, but more importantly, i like the sound of the digital waves as they are. In theory, they may have well been filtered because they are so defined. In a way, they are similiar to the set frequencies in a fixed filter bank.
But, the LPG's i would miss.

Also, a Mixolator or 2 might be able to do cover some psuedo filtering using cross-faders, the ring modulator and/or volume attunuation, or a combination of all those together.




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Post by chamomileshark » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:20 pm

I think the pre Wave PPG, the 360 had no filter. I'll go out on a limb and say it was the one used in early Thomas Dolby albums.

Of course, I could be talking bollocks, not suprising as in fact it is my first language. English is only my second.
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

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Post by revmutt » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:09 pm

Roycie Roller wrote:
No filter might seem strange, but i never had a filter in my first system and usually don't use them in my DIY synth.

{dream emoticon??}
I also am not a "filter queen". I use them but not all the time. I have a fair amount of modular power but I would say it's heavy on oscillators and ADSRs.
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Norman_Phay

Post by Norman_Phay » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:25 pm

Roycie Roller wrote:
Norman_Phay wrote:
Roycie Roller wrote:
me! wrote: I'm working out a dual EG1 300-sized panel ATM.

I'd love to see that panel when it's done :)
Take a look at progress so far :D

I'm trying to make an art nouveau overlay so it won't look plain compared to the proper Wiard modules. Tricky.

Hi Norman, is that file a video? I can't get it to open on my computer using a few different programs- what program are you using?
Hello Royce, I'm sorry I missed that you'd replied to this. It's a front panel designer file, the free program to look at it can be d/l-ed here:

http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/

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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 pm

Norman_Phay wrote:
Roycie Roller wrote:
Norman_Phay wrote:
Roycie Roller wrote:
me! wrote: I'm working out a dual EG1 300-sized panel ATM.

I'd love to see that panel when it's done :)
Take a look at progress so far :D

I'm trying to make an art nouveau overlay so it won't look plain compared to the proper Wiard modules. Tricky.

Hi Norman, is that file a video? I can't get it to open on my computer using a few different programs- what program are you using?
Hello Royce, I'm sorry I missed that you'd replied to this. It's a front panel designer file, the free program to look at it can be d/l-ed here:

http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/


Hey Norman, i got it thanks!

It looks great & matches the elegance of the originals very well.
I love the font you're using- i've seen some of your other DIY modules, and they also look fantastic, especially confined to a frac panel.

I honestly think this is the first DIY 300 module i've seen that truly works (no offence to anyone), and even with a different font!
Did you add any modifications, or leave any out, so as to get the layout right, ie. correct number of jacks, etc (i see the added att. knobs)?


You have inspired me to start working on designs for my own DIY panels- i have about 50 modules that need proper panels. I'm thinking of using Old English for my main font.
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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:54 pm

chamomileshark wrote:I think the pre Wave PPG, the 360 had no filter. I'll go out on a limb and say it was the one used in early Thomas Dolby albums.

Of course, I could be talking bollocks, not suprising as in fact it is my first language. English is only my second.



As lovely as filters are, they can also sound horrible- i loathe resonance & despise filter sweeps. I understand Ken stone's distaste of LPF's.
However i love fixed filter banks and graphic equalizers, as well as band-pass filters.
I think its resonance that i don't like (i'm not sure why...it just doesn't seem very useful, musically). Non-resonant filters seem better at focusing on a certain frequency, or maybe i'm wrong.


Digital waveforms are so focused when they are written they really dont need filtering- i see them as more like the frequencies in a fixed filter bank, so just select the one you want and away you go. An eprom with 16x16 waveforms is already like a fixed filter bank- you could even write one that is a fixed filter bank.

Having said that, i'm about to receive an Ensoniq SQ-80 to put these theories to the test, but mainly as a stop gap until the Wiard.

btw, bollocks as a language is universal now i think- we talk a whole heap of shit in Australia, too.

btw Mark, do you have more than 1 Waveform City? If so, do you cross modulate them? How do they sound?
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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:59 pm

revmutt wrote:
Roycie Roller wrote:
No filter might seem strange, but i never had a filter in my first system and usually don't use them in my DIY synth.

{dream emoticon??}
I also am not a "filter queen". I use them but not all the time. I have a fair amount of modular power but I would say it's heavy on oscillators and ADSRs.

Out of curiosity, how many Waveform Cities are in your system?
If it's more than one, do you cross-modulate them & how do they sound?
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Post by chamomileshark » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:47 pm

I have two WCs - I've not tried cross modulating them - yet.
Key Gear: Wiard 300 Series, EMS VCS3, Frac Modular (Blacet, Wiard, Bananalogue & Synthesis Technology).

Pastoral Music: Mark Ellery Griffiths
Music: https://markgriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Website: https://markellerygriffithsmusic.blogspot.com/


Experimental & IDM: Mark Dalton Griffiths
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Post by eef » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:40 pm

One reason I got a Goike case for my one of each system was to avoid such temptation. Not the main reason of course, the main reason is that it is gorgeous!

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