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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Random looping 16-step sequences
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author Random looping 16-step sequences
Tombola
***UPDATE: Latest details, PCB etc now here: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60740


Quite pleased with how this is coming along - inspired by Wiard Noisering / CGS Gated Comparator / Navs Bitsy module


Bricks
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
JP
applause
glitched01
This is exactly what I've been wanting to build, but had no idea how! Highly interested.
Tombola
glitched01 wrote:
This is exactly what I've been wanting to build, but had no idea how! Highly interested.


Will definitely post a schematic. It's quite a fun thing once it gets going - the button programming bit took about 10 minutes to add and is really nice. Also surprisingly easy to add steps - could make it a 32 step sequencer with two extra chips.
regenbot
wow, that looks really great. You have to get into pcb making business with all these great projects you do thumbs up
J3RK
Very cool! I'd love to build one of these. If you like, I'd be happy to lay out a board, and send to you/post the gerbers here at some point. Just have a couple of other things to finish up first.
mckenic
Ooh Err!

Is the button press re-randomizing each time? Is the output quantized because it sounds WICKED!

If you do a kit/ANYTHING with this - PLEASE put me down for one!!!

Great stuff indeed! thumbs up
ATOM
Really cool.

Please make a pcb for this one.

ATOM
pulse_divider
Yeah, this is fantastic. I'd also love a PCB if you make them.
asterisk
nice, i love the blinkin lights
surgesg
really nice - would love to see/hear more
Navs
Bloody. Marvellous. applause

Put me down for a PCB too lol
Tombola
mckenic wrote:
Is the button press re-randomizing each time? Is the output quantized because it sounds WICKED!


The output is going through an A156 a quantiser, but it is a stepped output, doesn't sound that much different without.

How this works:

The shift register is like a ring, 16 steps long. Each step contains a 0 or a 1.

8 of the steps are connected to an 8-bit Digital to Analog converter.

So, imagine the sequence is this:

1000000000000000

With the DAC looking at the first 8 bits - it sees 10000000 - which is 128, so it will output a roughly half-scale voltage - about 4 volts.

The clock ticks, the shift register moves on in a loop, with no new data added. It now says:

0100000000000000

The DAC 'sees' 01000000 which is 64, quarter scale, about 2 volts.

And so on.

New data gets into the ring in two ways at the moment.

There's a switch to fill it with random bits (provided by a wogglebug burst output at the moment) - leave the switch open, and it just creates a string of random notes. Close the loop, and it stops adding new data, but loops the existing sequence.

The two buttons in the top video let you add zeros and ones to the sequence. The right button adds ones, the left button adds zeros.

I want it to be controllable, but not programmable, if you see what I mean. So you can steer it in a direction, but not sit there tapping in melodies in binary.
Pfurmel
This is deadly, excellent work.
iopop
Great experiment!

Interesting idea to let the shift register have 16 bits but only using 8. When using the external input, you load one bit per clock?
lms.ktp
What a beauty SlayerBadger!
ossi_fx
Oh jeah, can´t wait schematic for this one hyper

Great job!
papercutnoise
Been dying to see a schematic since I first read about this on Nav's. Count me in for a pcb too smile
Isaiah
Good work!

This is similar to a circuit I've been working on for a while.
Mine is a 4-stage Serial In/Parallel Out SR similar to Ken's Gated Comparator, but with the Data input normalled to an in-built noise source.
There is manual and voltage control over looping the binary states held in the 4 stages.
Each stage has a Gate output and a pot to generate CV.
There is a CV output and an output for the noise source.
I also plan to add some other functions to the module, maybe a binary counter, I'm really not sure yet...
FetidEye
very nice! would also like a pcb if happening smile
Monobass
very nice Tom, is this another Arduino/ATMega based project?
Tombola
Monobass wrote:
very nice Tom, is this another Arduino/ATMega based project?


No, this is proper hardware - a few CMOS chips.

Problem with software is people come over and crash it when you're doing a demo!
neilbaldwin
Yeah, great stuff Tom.

I'm still getting my head around your reverb driver - going to attempt to just build it on strip board as a personal challenge - so I'll wait patiently for a possible PCB of this one. hihi

Slightly off-topic: from a friend on here I know what your 'proper job' is so I was wondering how you ended up with electronics skills? Self-taught? I only ask because I find your stuff inspiring - it's where I'm trying to get to with my DIY, in very small frustrated steps hihi
Monobass
Tombola wrote:
Monobass wrote:
very nice Tom, is this another Arduino/ATMega based project?


No, this is proper hardware - a few CMOS chips.

Problem with software is people come over and crash it when you're doing a demo!


Heh, don't let Spandex touch it, he'll coax out hitherto hidden magic smoke.
Tombola
neilbaldwin wrote:
Slightly off-topic: from a friend on here I know what your 'proper job' is so I was wondering how you ended up with electronics skills? Self-taught? I only ask because I find your stuff inspiring - it's where I'm trying to get to with my DIY, in very small frustrated steps hihi


Totally self taught, and half-assed - taking bits of different circuits, connect them together, fiddle until they work long enought to make a video. Couldn't explain Ohms law. First project was this: http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2008/10/7-things-i-learned-building-my- first.html

There is so much information and help out there now - http://www.beavisaudio.com/ got me into the basics of building stompboxes, then this DIY forum and electro-music. Been doing stuff for Euro for about a year.

Always amazed at the quality and insight available - was trying to learn about the Buchla Source of Uncertainty, and this thread: http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30861 just goes through and dissects it, talking through the different bits, how they work.

The more you learn, the more you appreciate the genius of Don Buchla, Serge Tcherepnin, Stanley Lunetta, Peter Zinovieff, Bob Moog, Blacet, Ken Stone, Grant Richter etc etc, coming up with all the ideas we're still working through today. How they came up with this stuff while working 40 years ago without the internet, without overnight parts delivery, without cheap chinese PCB fab houses, amazes me.
Navs
papercutnoise wrote:
Been dying to see a schematic since I first read about this on Nav's. Count me in for a pcb too smile


The schematic is here: http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs13v2_gated_comparator.html

I left out the comparators, LED drivers, stage switches and inverted output. It's fairly simple, but fiddly depending on how big you want your board to be.

Tom has added some nice twists like the LED display, DAC (which is great because laying out and soldering the R2R ladder was very frustrating on Bitsy) and a couple of switches for manual loading of data. I really like the latter idea, but agree with Tom - the point isn't to sit there programming sequences in binary lol

There's a couple of things I would change if doing a Bitsy mkII, like adding the input comparators, at least for the data. I've noticed with the WB that at slow speeds, the burst pulse might be too short to get recognized, for example. I'd also add manual input buttons and a rotary/ click switch to shorten the stages to give odd length sequences.

There's more info linked here: http://navsmodularlab.blogspot.com/2011/10/bitsy-stepped-cv-generator- recorder.html

The Klee & Rungler links are of particular interest.
simfonik
I'd love a PCB if it happens.
jimmyambulance
want.... for real....
neilbaldwin
Tombola wrote:
neilbaldwin wrote:
Slightly off-topic: from a friend on here I know what your 'proper job' is so I was wondering how you ended up with electronics skills? Self-taught? I only ask because I find your stuff inspiring - it's where I'm trying to get to with my DIY, in very small frustrated steps hihi


Totally self taught, and half-assed - taking bits of different circuits, connect them together, fiddle until they work long enought to make a video. Couldn't explain Ohms law. First project was this: http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2008/10/7-things-i-learned-building-my- first.html

There is so much information and help out there now - http://www.beavisaudio.com/ got me into the basics of building stompboxes, then this DIY forum and electro-music. Been doing stuff for Euro for about a year.

Always amazed at the quality and insight available - was trying to learn about the Buchla Source of Uncertainty, and this thread: http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30861 just goes through and dissects it, talking through the different bits, how they work.

The more you learn, the more you appreciate the genius of Don Buchla, Serge Tcherepnin, Stanley Lunetta, Peter Zinovieff, Bob Moog, Blacet, Ken Stone, Grant Richter etc etc, coming up with all the ideas we're still working through today. How they came up with this stuff while working 40 years ago without the internet, without overnight parts delivery, without cheap chinese PCB fab houses, amazes me.


Good stuff Tom, thanks for the insight. smile
Spandex
Tombola wrote:
Monobass wrote:
very nice Tom, is this another Arduino/ATMega based project?


No, this is proper hardware - a few CMOS chips.

Problem with software is people come over and crash it when you're doing a demo!


8_)

Great project.

Do you find it often has a certain character - like the Noisering - of a particular ascending or descending seq? Cos if yr bitshifting left, yr effectively multiplying by two and any new deviation is always in the LSB. If u shift right then yr halving it - but with the option of adding a new MSB - to bump it up an order of binary magnitude. I reckon I can hear this in my Noisering... am I way off? Do u hear it too? Does it make it more musical? Cos it's nothing like random. There are, by definition, only two values that can follow any other. Keep going over this in my head smile is it right?

I've wasted literally months of my life building these kinds of circuits virtually on NM and G2. Slowly morphing seqs basically. They use very little DSP - but loads of modules. Kept hitting the limits of memory while the DSP was barely ticking over confused
JJ
Great stuff! Would love to build this into my euro! applause
Tombola
@spandex - yes, I know what you mean - it definitely 'rises' at the start - ie going from a 00000000 to 10000000 to 01000000 and so on. However, once it's a stream of really random 0s and 1s, it shouldn't be so obvious

And you can see in the video with the 'scope that there is some very non-random stuff at the start - fast rise, slow drop off. I'm not sure if this is flaky breadboard bleed/noise, non-random Random input (I think I was using the wogglebug burst out at that stage, which is anything but consistent white noise) or something inherent in the system.

The Noisering is called a data resonator - I wonder if there's some way to use the 'decay' after a bunch of 1s like a ring or reverb at high clock rates?

Next thing I'm trying to add - don't know if it will make it to a proper prototype - is a system which takes the 8 channels of shift register output through 8x switches (2x 4016 switches, voltage controlled somehow) and into another DAC, to provide variations. This is roughly how the QRV section of the Buchla 266 source of uncertainty works, I think.

in the G2 editor you can do this by switching channels in and out of the DAC. It's quite musical, feels a bit like dropping notes in and out of an arpeggio - http://soundcloud.com/musicthing/shift-register-sequencer-nord

Since starting this, I've been listening to Keith Fullerton Whitman's Generator album, basically i'm trying to build that in a module...
Spandex
The bitswitching idea is really interesting.

With any design based around bitshifting - you're always gonna have that limiting thing of any value only having two possible "descendents". I don't think that's a criticism tho... the two possible values are always somewhat distant from the current value and i think that's what makes these devices good. Truly random distributions would be "clumpier" and maybe less interesting musically.

I guess you could look at what different switched bits might do.. it's much harder to imagine without writing stuff down smile you'd still only have two possible t+1 values at each t... maybe it wouldn't be as good?? maybe it'd be better.

Using G2 to prototype these things is an excellent idea.. might go play now.
Spandex
I've been playing... thought the best way might be to see the randomness visually... so I wrote a quick prog to render a few things.

From left to right..
1) Random (or as random as the psuedo random number generator on my machine is - good enuff for this)
2) Bitshifting. Guaranteed new bit each rotation, random choice of 0 or 1. If it was a NoiseRing it'd be Change 100% clockwise and chance at noon.
3) as 2 but with the bits switched to this order before "DAC" - 73210465
4) as 2 but with the bits switched to this order before "DAC" - 23745610

There's two views of each so u can see the randomness at different scales.






If I had to choose one of those for my wallpaper.. I wouldn't choose the first column. the others are clearly random-ish... but with a wee bit of structure.. they look more.. um.. natural??

What's really interesting* though is that your idea of swapping the bits round under CV control looks like it could be really good for giving the randomness particular "characters".

This is how I spent my Thursday evening. WHO WANTS TO COME PARTY AT MY HOUSE WITH THE EVER-SO-SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IMAGES? w00t w00t YAY! GREYSCALE FTW! Guinness ftw!

*may not actually be interesting
Tombola
Here's one version of the CV-controlled 'shuffling' in Nord
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1543473/logicswitcher.pch2

In this case it isn't actually shuffling, just turning bits on and off.
Spandex
Nice.. I modified it to shuffle.. there's two shuffle stages in series.. one just swaps each pair of bits.... the next stage is a bit wilder.

Can turn each stage on/off independently... with both off, you get the original signal, obv.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3839475/logicswitcher-spandex.pch2

Incidentally.. i hit the memory wall again while playing with this.. was putting in a load of 8->1 and 1->8 mux/demuxers... and ran out of patch RAM when I was still under 50% of the DSP in a single slot of my fully expanded (i.e. 800% total) G2. ridiculous smile
Tombola
Another proto - here's a proper Voltage Controlled switch - which shuffles the bits - i.e. puts them back in a different order.
Not totally sure about it now.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1543473/vc-swich.pch2

One thing I really miss on the Nord is a Quantizer with a trigger out, like the A-156 - that would be really helpful in this context
Spandex
Tombola wrote:
One thing I really miss on the Nord is a Quantizer with a trigger out, like the A-156 - that would be really helpful in this context


Yeah... v annoying. wish they'd kept up dev on that machine, it'd be so easy to add that feature in software.

i've built something like this on the G2 though (or maybe on the NM, thinking about it.. but the NM2G2 patch converter is excellent). I'll see if I can dig it out later.
Spandex
Boom... G2 change detector

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3839475/ChangeDetector.pch2
Spandex
Tombola wrote:
Another proto - here's a proper Voltage Controlled switch - which shuffles the bits - i.e. puts them back in a different order.
Not totally sure about it now.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1543473/vc-swich.pch2


Right.. just had a looks. I can see why you're not sure.. but what you're doing there is just switching bits on/off.. so you're just introducing incontinuities. What's more, you're switching them off sequentially from one end, so you're introducing incontinuities in the most boring order tbh smile ... coming close to just dividing by two for each turn of the knob.

So your thing would turn 255->127->63->31->15->7->3->1

Whereas if you turn them off in a different order you could get

255->191->175 etc etc..

But more interesting still would be to swap the bits, as in my G2 example above (and in my slightly different, grey PNGs:)). Then you keep the full range of the DAC, but you've munged the values into a different character.

If you imagine you've got a locked loop (no new data).. suddenly your VC of bitswapping is giving you a load of "variations".. where you can always get back to the previous pattern by giving it the same voltage as before.

That's technically true of your logical AND... but the patterns will always go up and down in the same places.. they'll just have the bit mask subtracted from the value at every point.

Get swapping instead of ANDing and you're in a whole new territory of brilliantness IMO.
Spandex
Did i just say "incontinuities" ?

If you turn this into a module, please label the VC shuffle input "incontinuity"
Monobass
"...but on this module the incontinence goes up to ee-lev-en. it's one louder."
Tombola
VERY interesting: Grant Richter talking in the malekko forum:

"The "Cybernetics" expander adds the stuff from the 266 that I originally left out. Anyway, the expander adds variable psuedo-random microsequences, big and little endian individual bit switching, random gate and trigger and a chromatic quantized output. "
Monobass
on a pcb!



http://instagr.am/p/Jfx71sjmSH/

(btw, that was me on Twitter Tombola)
Tombola
Yes, it's very nearly working perfectly - something went wrong with the loop/random pot, but I think I know what the problem is.

Pm me if you want to beta test the v1 PCB - I have more than I need. Parts are mostly straightforward - chips are all CMOS - got them & the LED from Bitsbox, switches and resistor network ( which you could bodge around) from Rapid. Only fiddly bits are the erthenvar 3.5mm sockets and the vertical alpha pots from Banzai. I thnk the pots are going to be too short for knobs...

I'm planning to do an acrylic panel in the next week or so
Boofin Moonrocks
Woah, this looks like it's gonna be a super cool project! I'm really excited to try this out once the boards are done!
simfonik
Nice to see things coming along on this project.
Emalot
Tombola , you'll do Boards run??
When?
It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo
Tombola
Hmm....



Needed a pretty ugly cludge to get this one running perfectly - one trace cut, 3 wires soldered between pins.

I'll finish the panel and make a demo video to judge whether there is any audience for a v2 PCB.
Paradigm X
Hell yeah, sounds amazing, Ill be up for a v2, or even a v1 if it comes to it, kludges arent toooooo bad

nanners


:edit - if not clear, i cant really beta test tho tbh, sorry, im pretty new at all this and also time is quite limited.
Tombola
Getting there!



rev 2 PCB:


Untitled by Tom.Whitwell, on Flickr
BananaPlug
Keeping an eye on this. What's new on this one? Length is 8/16? hyper
Navs
Looks superb, Tom! Flattered beyond words to be in such illustrious company on the board oops
numan7
woah superb ! i totally moogle (ie, Lotsa Love) the design, btw!! we're not worthy

cheers
Tombola
Bounce for an update: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60740
continuum
The solution for this module is quite elegant in it's simplicity. I would have gone right to software to do it. Your work does give me an idea for some probability based sequencers that will likely involve an Arduino.

Spandex wrote:
I've been playing... thought the best way might be to see the randomness visually... so I wrote a quick prog to render a few things.


The images remind me a bit of Ken Perlin's noise algorithm. It's an essential part of 3D rendering that he came up with while working on Tron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlin_noise
http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/noise/

I've used it for OpenGL programming, but never for audio. Might be worth a look.
Tombola
Would certainly be easy to do in Arduino, but I'm a bit off coding at the moment... Was very gratifying to do it in CMOS, and the audio rate stuff might be harder in arduino
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